More bones of hobbit-sized humans discovered

by zagor 24 Replies latest social current

  • zagor
    zagor

    More bones of hobbit-sized humans discovered

    By Patricia Reaney Tue Oct 11, 9:57 AM ET

    Australian scientists said on Tuesday they have discovered more remains of hobbit-sized humans which belong to a previously unknown species that lived at the end of the last Ice Age.

    Professor Mike Morwood, of the University of New England, in Armidale, Australia, stunned the science world last year when he and his team announced the discovery of 18,000-year-old remains of a new human species called Homo floresiensis.

    The partial skeleton discovered in a limestone cave on the remote Indonesian island of Flores in 2003 was of a tiny adult hominid, or early human, only one meter (3 feet tall), that would have walked upright and had a chimpanzee-sized brain.

    Morwood and his team said it represented a unique species of early humans that evolved to a naturally small size because of environmental conditions and the isolation of the island, which was also home to exotic creatures such as miniature elephants and Komodo dragons.

    But critics suggested the small hominid was not a new species and was more likely a pygmy human or a creature that suffered from a form of microcephaly, a condition that causes an unusually small brain.

    "The finds further demonstrate ...(it) is not just an aberrant or pathological individual but is representative of a long-term population," Morwood and his team said in a report in the science journal Nature.

    CHINLESS WONDERS

    The newly found remains, dug up in 2004, consist of a jaw, as well as arm and other bones which the researchers believe were from at least nine individuals.

    A jaw bone reported last year and the latest one were probably from the same species, according to the scientists. Both share similar dental features and lacked chins.

    The new species, dubbed "Flores man," is thought to be a descendent of Homo erectus, which had a large brain, was full-sized and spread from Africa to Asia about 2 million years ago.

    "Although the original skeleton is estimated to be 18,000 years old, a child's radius (arm bone) was found in deposits estimated to be 12,000 years old," Daniel Lieberman, of Harvard University in Massachusetts, said in a commentary in the journal.

    He added that if the remains were from a population of short microcephalic humans they would have had to survive a long time or been susceptible to a high frequency of dwarfism.

    "Such possibilities strain credulity," Lieberman added.

    CAT scans of the inside of the skull found in 2003 suggested it was a normal adult and not a diseased or mutant species. The brain could have been advanced enough for tool-making.

    But Robert Martin, provost and vice president of academic affairs at the Field Museum in Chicago, Illinois is unconvinced.

    "Whatever else is true, that brain is simply too small for an 18,000 year-old hominid," he told Reuters.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    cool. thanks for that zagor.

    island dwarfism is a well documented phenomena. it doesn't surprise me that early homo erectus on the island began to drawf, while later homo sapiens did not. perhaps this is because homo sapiens had the ability to hunt and gather not only from the sea, but from other islands as well via trade etc.

    TS

  • OldSoul
    OldSoul

    What if these are the pre-flood, pre-angelic descent humans? What if WE'RE the giants?!?

  • chrissy
    chrissy

    ...sounds similar to the Mbuti pygmies living in the heart of the rainforest in DROT congo. (africa) Only the mbuti have prominent chins and are most certainly more highly evolved than the little hobbit of yesteryear w. their chimp size brains. these little people are fascinating. I wonder about their origins (the mbuti) and how they came to be there, in a large land-locked nation of sub-saharan africa...especially in reading about the "hobbits" of indonesia. i get the environmental adaptation in their evolutionary development, which is what puzzles me about the mbuti and their environment.

    i'd be very interested to hear of any other pygmy tribes that exist today, if any are known of?

    tiny elephants? aw, sorry i missed those.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    What if these are the pre-flood, pre-angelic descent humans? What if WE'RE the giants?!?



    Whoa, what if we are. You have a point there. Gosh. You're too funny.

    But seriously, if their brains are the size of chimp brains, how can they call them human? And how big would the brain of a three foot tall person be anyway? Especially a three foot tall child's?

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien
    But seriously, if their brains are the size of chimp brains, how can they call them human?

    what is human?

    at any rate, paleoanthropologists categorize them as human taxonomically. this means we are part of the same genus: homo. but a different species: floresienses as opposed to sapeins sapiens (us). the same as the difference between homo erectus and homo neanderthalis. we share enough similarities morphologically (bone structure) and culturally/technically (tools developed by better wired brains, and ritual burial) that we are all of the genus homo, of which we are most likely the sole survivors.

    it's not just brain size that makes a human, human.

    from princeton wordnet:

    homo:

  • any living or extinct member of the family Hominidae characterized by superior intelligence, articulate speech, and erect carriage
    wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
  • that is the traditional, taxonomic definition of a human, although culturally we have hijacked the term for just ourselves due to our unfounded insistance that we are special.

    some biologists, however, are asserting that based on what we have learned regarding the genome of our closest living relative, the chimp ( Pan troglodytes), that they should also be moved into our genus, Homo, from their current one, Pan. the question is if "genome" should be added to the above definition or not. which brings us back to the question i posed: what is a human?

    TS

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    OldSoul....Well, you know how we're all supposed to be descended from Noah? There is a funny story in 1 Enoch on the birth of Noah, and baby Noah sure looked and acted like a baby Nephilim. Well, Enoch decided that Noah was merely blessed and not of actual angelic descent, but .... what if he was wrong?

  • LDH
    LDH
    What if these are the pre-flood, pre-angelic descent humans? What if WE'RE the giants?!?

    That's hilarious.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    alt

    homo floresensis aka: the hobbit

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    homo:
  • any living or extinct member of the family Hominidae characterized by superior intelligence, articulate speech, and erect carriage
  • And they can determine all this from a jawbone, arm bone and other bones? What other bones?

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