Leaving is not as simple as it sounds. I suggest reading old threads here and elsewhere. Would she be willing to give up her sisters for you? That may sound melodramatic to you at the moment, but that's how it is, really. I too am married to a recently baptized jw and grew up protestant. I understand how nuts this all sounds. How much baggage will she be carrying into the relationship caused by being jw? Are you ready to deal with that? Do you know what the 144,000 means to her? Paradise earth? Jesus was not the savior at birth? The book of Daniel and how it relates to jw's? (don't ask me I still don't get it) Who is the fds? My point is there is so much information, that to most protestants these are not 'salvation issues' but have tremendous meaning to jw's it takes so much work just to figure out where they are coming from. And once you start to study any of it you realize it's all just bs. They have no Biblical foundation. Just made up by a bunch of men in Brooklyn.
New JW relationship
by dougpotts 33 Replies latest social relationships
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dougpotts
Thanks for telling me all these points. Am afraid I am a simple protestant who had no imagination that all this nonsense goes on in a organisation that calls itself a christian church. I was a good friend of the husband of the girl who recently died- non jw. Took girl out who i have known for some 30 years simply at first to support her. Unfortuneately with nature as it is, I am afraid I have rather fallen for her.
Could not understand her actions at first but now am just realising what immense preasure she is under with her faith and the extra ordinary prehistoric ways of the cult and now understand her somewhat pecular meeting habits which at first had me perplexed.
In reply to one email, no she has not given out much in the way of info about her faith. She seems not willing to discuss it with me.
With her sons out and getting married with future children outside,there could be a danger that she will isolate herself from her family especially as her kids inlaws will ensure that the future kids will not fall into JW. Dont think she herself is very strong herself. Maybe there is a chance. But I do now realise that I have to give her a credible alternative if I have any hope at all to disentagle her from this can of worms.
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kls
Just remember one thing , even if in time she does decide to leave the jws ,many do return because of lifes problems or natural disasters.
You really never know and many can never just leave the cult teaching behind but carry baggage for many years.
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dougpotts
Thanks for all your emails- I am just realising the immensity of it all.
I would appreciate if there are any other revalent things I shoud know about in relation to taking a girl out and problems of marriage.
She has only been in 6 years having transferred from another religeon which she has attended for some 30 years. Her husband was not a member of a church and both her sons have come out. She has no parents who could influence her only sisters within it. So she might realise that with advancing years and grandkids her position might become increasingly untenable.All her friends of past years are not JW.
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dougpotts
I am church of scotland but dont know how kindom hall operates- what is the structure in a hall. What powers do the congregation have over the elders. How does it work.
What authority does elder have. Who gives them that power over the members.
How many meetings and attendance are they required to do. How many hours door to door.
If husband is not JW but wife is how do to principals of faith operate. Husband being wordly and to be kept at distance against the principal that wife must be submissive to husband.
How much does wife have to report to elders about domestic situation.
Does elders have any powers over non JW husband
What is the definition of fornication - is it simply sexual intercourse outside marriage or does it include many other things. I ask because 1 email suggested it could include simply petting the person.
Can JW wife go into another church for say weddings/funerals of family members.
What could the problems be with grandchildren born to non jw parents but grandmother is.
Worldly - what is the definition of this word to a JW.
Is disfellowship and disassociation the same in that family cannot speak to the person.
Does this family non speak and dead apply to people who simply leave.
Am i right in thinking that if JW girl gets married say in a local registry office and not in church to non JW, family would still be able to speak to her.
What advantage over other religeons do JW think they have. They must think that it gives them something more than say protestant or catholic.
Cant get head round the mentality of members who would be prepared to shut off their family in the name of their church. They must live a very lonely and isolated life.
To jgnat- canada. Only relative in canada was in owen sound north of Toronto i think.If you think otherwise you can get me on [email protected]
Sorry for all the questions but it all adds to my knowledge.
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OldSoul
What powers do the congregation have over the elders.
The congregation has no powers over anything except whether to cough up funds for certain expenses.
What authority does elder have.
A specific elder has very limited authority. As a group, the Body of Elders have fairly complete authority over the workings of the congregation and authority to play judge, jury, and executioner over members of the flock who they believe to be sinners.
Who gives them that power over the members.
Here is where it gets convoluted: Supposedly, the Governing Body (currently, a group of 12 men) have authority from the Faithful and Discreet Slave (nobody knows for sure who they are, but they all drink wine and eat bread ) to appoint "servants" in the congregation who can punish their fellow sheep. You might be wondering why the authority doesn't come from the Bible.
How many meetings and attendance are they required to do. How many hours door to door.
On paper there is no requirement. However, without attending meetings (3 per week, 5 hours total, not counting preparation) and getting time in field service (recommended about 10 hours per month) they will be considered inactive and be on the watch list of those who are straying away.
If husband is not JW but wife is how do to principals of faith operate.
Wife is considered under the direction and headship of her husband except in spiritual matters. In spiritual matters, the elders would fulfill that role. (Sick, and not based on Scripture)
How much does wife have to report to elders about domestic situation.
The wife doesn't "have to report" anything to the elders. However, there is often a deeply ingrained compliance with elder's requests that causes JWs to tell the elders things that really is none of their business. My wife was recently asked about her suspicions regarding my Internet habits. She told them. I don't hold it against her, they shouldn't have asked because it is none of their damned business. (please pardon the frustration)
Does elders have any powers over non JW husband
Only to the extent that you love your wife. Sadly, just yesterday I had a person remind me about my "lovely wife" and how I "need to consider the impacts of my choices on my relationship with her." Emotional clubbing is considered a wonderful tool to lead people to Jehovah.
What is the definition of fornication - is it simply sexual intercourse outside marriage or does it include many other things.
Again, the authority of the Body of Elders (BOE) includes the authority to make such judgment calls. In some congregations, petting will get JWs a stern talking to. In others, a JW might be put on some kind of restrictions. In another, there may be public "reproof" where an announcement is read from the platform (but not revealing the offense) and restrictions may be imposed. In another, the offender may be disfellowshipped. This depends on how the BOE interprets the reported behavior and how strongly the BOE feels about the issue. In my experience, the more aged the BOE, the more stern the conclusions.
Judicial decisions of the BOE can be appealed, but this is generally regarded as a formality and a nuisance.
Can JW wife go into another church for say weddings/funerals of family members.
Yes. But if it becomes widely known may result in reproof depending on the BOE's perception of how the congregation is affected.
What could the problems be with grandchildren born to non jw parents but grandmother is.
Grandmother will then feel a pressing need to save the grandchildren. Depending on the grandmother, this may take the form of anything from mildly trying to indoctrinate the child through to possibly trying to get the parents found unfit. Can get very ugly, but usually doesn't.
Worldly - what is the definition of this word to a JW.
Non-JW. Technically, I am nominally a JW but I am considered worldly just because I am an inactive JW.
Is disfellowship and disassociation the same in that family cannot speak to the person.
The effect is identical. From the announcement that is read on the platform no one would know whether the person was disassociated or disfellowshipped. No one would have any idea why, although slander immediately ensues. The disfellowhipped (I like that word better) person never has an opportunity to explain to anyone. The congregation never has an opportunity to exercise their conscience as to whether or not the offense was severe enough to merit the decision. If those in the congregation continue "unrepentantly" associating with an excommunicated person they also will be disfellowshipped.
Does this family non speak and dead apply to people who simply leave.
This depends on the family and the local BOE. Some BOE's see leaving as disassociation. Some families shun anyone who is not an active JW. However, this is the best option fr creating the likelihood of continued family contact.
Am i right in thinking that if JW girl gets married say in a local registry office and not in church to non JW, family would still be able to speak to her.
Yes. Civil ceremonies are considered perfectly legitimate and not contrary to Governing Body Law (not a real term, but appropriate way to think of it). The Bible doesn't speak much one way or the other about what kinds of marriage are legitimate as opposed to other kinds, and never gives an example of a marriage resulting in disfellowship (or even counsel). The Governing Body stand on this issue is 100% fabrication.
What advantage over other religeons do JW think they have.
They have The Truth™ and no one else does. Of course, there is always an unsettling feeling they choke down whenever The Truth™ changes, but they get over it. They believe they alone are God's chosen people and that the Organization is like Noah's ark in that it is the modern means for saving some of mankind through Armageddon. They are gathering people into this modern day "ark" and they are anxiously awaiting the time when God will figuratively "shut the door," that is, end the preaching and teaching work. "Last call! All aboard! We're New System bound!"
They must think that it gives them something more than say protestant or catholic.
They encourage protestants and Catholics to examine their Church dogma to see whether there is basis for the teachings in the Scripture, but they strongly discourage similar examination and critique of their own beliefs. Someone who becomes a JW (baptized) can be disfellowshipped for challenging, or even questioning in some cases, Governing Body doctrine to see whether there is Scriptural basis. Basically, collectively the Governing Body has the same degree of magisterium as the Pope.
Cant get head round the mentality of members who would be prepared to shut off their family in the name of their church.
You and me both. They have been thoroughly indoctrinated that the Organization speaks for Jehovah. In effect, the Organization equals Jehovah because (as I was told) the Organization is accountable only to itself and to Jehovah. So, no member can "see" Jehovah without looking through the Organization first. Therefore, in the minds of Witnesses, leaving the Organization = leaving Jehovah. Since "leaving" is on both sides of the equation, it is cancelled out. Therefore, the Organization = Jehovah.
Hope this helps you understand. The people usually aren't that bad at all. But when they act on the directives of the Governing Body they can be downright viscious. Depends on the people involved to a large degree.
Respectfully,
OldSoul -
jgnat
Douglas Potts, my Potts were in lowland Scotland. Lots of us over here are only a few generations removed from immigrants.
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dougpotts
May I thank oldsoul for the time and effort
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dougpotts
May I thank oldsoul for the fully detailed reply to my requests.
It has greatly expanded my knowledge of this faith and has answered many of my questions about it.
Thank you indeed.Thanks for the time involved.Maybe I could come back to you on some points when I have digested your answers.
To jgnat- Afraid I cant say where I an in scotland because it might give lead to identification of the girl concerned which I would not like. I too am from lowland scotland. Not many potts people in area - its an english name from round about stoke and the black country in england. I see you are maybe JW.
Greatly appreciate maybe some of your views on my situation if you could find the time and email me direct.
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