In 1953 and on through 1963 the Watchtower taught that the superior authorities of Romans 13 were Jehovah God and Christ Jesus. Then changed back to believeing they were political governments in 1963 and on to the present. During the time the society held that the interpretation should be Jehovah and Christ many were disfellowshiped for not accepting this view. I have documentation to the teaching, but is there any documentation for witnesses being disfellowshiped over the issue? Some say that it never happened, and I cannot prove any different. If anyone of you knows somewhere it is documented if JWs were disfellowshiped over this issue please let me know. Thanks!
disfellowshiped over Romans 13
by OddNameClay 10 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Legolas
Welcome to the board!
The only thing I have found is this:
20 Brushy Creek Road,
LENAH VALLEY
Tasmania 7008
7th August, 1980
Mr. F.W. Franz,
President,
Watchtower Society,
NEW YORK
U.S.A.Dear brother Franz,
I am writing to you regarding the relation of my wife and myself to the Watchtower Society.
Firstly I would like to explain our background. We both come from East Germany and have been in Australia for 15 years. I am a third generation witness, I was baptized 31 years ago. My wife is a second generation witness and was baptized 34 years ago.
After discussing our position with the Circuit Servant, he suggested that I write to you in order to avoid endless and useless discussions.
Because we do not desire to be hypocrites, we will clearly state our position. Having prayerfully read our Bibles each day, we have come more and more into collision with the ever changing ideas of the Organisation. We have lost faith to believe what the Organisation teaches because interpretations given in one Watchtower or book could be changed in the next. This has actually happened many times.
Please understand that we are not rebels or evil slaves, which might be easily said about us.
We shall state a few facts, which most probably you are well aware of. Proverbs 27:2 states, "May a stranger, and not your own mouth praise you, may a foreigner and not your own lips do so" However what are the mernbers of the Organisation doing? They praise themselves all the time. How good we are. How many hours we preach. How superior the New World translation is, etc, etc. Likewise Matthew 6:2-4 "Do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, that your gifts of mercy may be in secret." But we are trumpeting how many hours of visiting and preaching we are doing. Even Pioneers are dragged on to the platforms, where it is said "Look how many hours he does!"
The teaching of Romans 13, dealing with the superior authorities has been changed three times. Many years ago a brother was disfellowshipped because he did not agree that the superior authorities in Romans 13 are Jehovah and Jesus Christ. Six months later the Organisation changed its opinion back to the previous interpretation, so the brother was right. This is stated in the book "This Means Everlasting Life" Page 197 Paragraph 10.
A sister in Munich, Germany, could not believe that Solomon would have no resurrectaon, she was disfellowshipped for apostacy and later committed suicide Later the Organisation said "Yes, Solomon will still have a resurrection."
Each new publication is said to be given to us by Jehovah through His 'Faithfull and Discreet Slave' But if the explanation changes, it must mean that either Jehovah is a liar, or could it be the Faithful and Discreet Slave has not spoken the truth? God never changes as James says in 1:17 "and with him there is not a variation of the turning of the shadow".
When Paul baptized the Philipplan jailor and his household the same night that they believed, Paul certainly did not ask the 'eighty questions' before he baptized them. Neither did Philip when he baptized the Ethiopian eunuch. There is no basis for the 'eighty questions' in the Bible, no matter how much human reasoning is used to try to prove that there is. We have no right to demand more than what is required in Scripture. Baptism is no more administered in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, as it was when I was baptized, despite this being a command of Jesus in Matthew 28:19-20.
In Acts 10 we read that Cornelius was still in the army when he was baptized. Now we go beyond the Bible by refusing baptism to any man in the army. This is putting the Roman historian, Tertullian, above the Bible.
For many decades we have been taught that Jesus did not have a beard, because the churches depicted him as having a beard. Now we are told that Jesus did have one.
In the Watchtower, 15/8/68, speaking of the Lord's return in the article "Why are you looking forward to 1975", Page 499 states "it may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years". Now five years have passed, so the prophecy was a lie. Also what about the other dates which were prophesied, 1914, 1918, 1925 etc?
According to this year's yearbook page 62, concerning the resurrection of the worthy ones, Rutherford said 'It was stated in the 'Millions' book that we might reasonably expect them to return shortly after 1925, but this was merely an expressed opinion" However, this was not only an expressed opinion because they already had a house, 'Beth-Sarim' ready for them. If a humble brother expresses his opinion in a printed form, he is disfellowshipped, but the President is above his own rules and may do so.
At the large assemblies there is always much talk about bringing people into God's Organisation, but the Bible speaks plainly of leading people to Christ. Jesus says "I am the door," There is no Scripture whatsoever that states that the Organisation is the door.
Our Founder, Brotheer Russel proved the return of the Jews beyond any doubt from Romans 11 and many chapters in Ezekiel and Jeremiah, too many to go into details. But if I preach what Brother Russel said, and the literal meaning of the Bible a humble person would understand by reading it himself, then I would be disfellowshipped. Which means that the Bible does not mean what it says, and that the Founder was a liar.
The next President, Brother Rutherford, completely contradicted himself in his writings. He wrote a book entitled "Comfort for the Jews" directed towards the Jews naturally. He proved that their return is beyond any doubt in the Bible. Shortly afterwards, in some of his following books, he wrote the opposite and went into great detail to disprove the arguments of his previous book
I Corinthians 15 and I Thessalonians 4 and II Thessalonians 2 speak about the rapture and Christ's coming back to earth. The resurrection and the rapture of the living ones is described as one event, as occurring together. However the Faithfull and Discreet Slave says just the opposite, he says that Christ does not return to the earth, and that the rapture is in stages, like a bus picking up stragglers.
Zechariah 14:4 says concerning Christ, 'And his feet will actually stand in that day upon the mountain of the olive trees, which is in the front of Jerusalem on the east'. One recent Watchtower stated the opposite, it said that Jesus had already put his feet on the heavenly Mount of Olives. So the Bible does not mean what it says. There are many examples which I could give like this. The books of Rutherford are a real mine of errors. Some years ago I picked out over four hundred statements which were just the opposite to what the Scripture stated.
The explanation of the parable of the leaven in Matthew 13:33 has been changed four times in the past seventy years, yet the Organisation claims that the spiritual food is given to us by Jehovah through His Faithful and Discreet Slave, and only after deep and prayerful study of the Bible. The same was said in the book "Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose," but Rutherford put all Russel's teachings out of the window. Who then is a liar, Brother Russel, Brother Rutherford, or Jehovah, the God who never changes?
Dealing with the different gifts I Corinthians 12:28 29 says "Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets are they? Not all are teachers. are they?" But the Faithfull and Discreet Slave always says 'ALL OF US SHOULD BECOME TEACHERS', thus going beyond the Scriptures.
When the Pioneers were working 1200 hours per year and one of them became sick. he had to make up the missing hours in order to reach the 1200 hours so that he could remain in pioner service. We still remember my late father in law, he was 65 years old, he was sick with a severe cold yet he went out in the winter on his pushbike. My wife urged him to stay at home,. his reply was 'No I cannot, otherwise I will not reach the 1200 hours.' Not even the most cruel wordly employer would ask one to make up for the time lost when they were sick yet the Faithful and Discreet Slave has done so for years. Jesus, our Redeemer said "For my yoke is kindly and my load is light." Matthew 11:30.
The Organisation teaches that men may be saved and stand accepted before God on the basis of their own righteousness, rather than being saved through Christ alone. This is clearly stated in the book "Life Everlasting - in Freedom of the sons of God" Page 392. "Eventually, before the thousand years of his healing reign are over, uplift to human perfection will be imparted to the obedient, God fearing "great crowd". Now they will be able to stand before the God of holiness on the basis of their own righteousness."
When I compared the New World Translation with the original Greek and Hebrew, I found many inconsistencies. In order to confirm my own suspicions, we visited a Greek Scholar in Melbourne three years ago. During our visit to Israel we visited a famous professor in the Hebrew language. He also confirmed our suspicions regarding the Old Testament. Brother Franz, you speak a number of languages, you must certainly know where the Bible has been tampered with to fit into the doctrines of the Organisation.
The final blow came for us a few weeks ago when the Watchtower said about "praying through but not to Jesus". It was admitted that Stephen was praying to Jesus when he was being stoned to death, and that John prays directly to Jesus in the end of Revelation, "Amen come Lord Jesus." But the Organisation says in the same paragraph this does not mean that we can pray to Jesus because we have to consider the circumstances etc. But who can tell me not to talk to my Saviour? John 5:23 says, "that all may honour the Son just as they honour the Father. He that does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him," Who has the right to tell us not to pray to the King of Kings, to our Lord who shed his precious blood for us. Isaiah 9:6 says of him, "And his name will be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. But the socalled God's Organisation says, "No you should not pray to him and honour and worship him." Once it was taught by the Organisation that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, but now it is Jehovah who is the Alpha and the Omega.
How can we be sure that the writings of the Organisation are true when there are constant changes and the Word of God is denied. Many thousands have already left because they could not accept the hundreds of changes and spiritual somersaults. God's word is written so that even the most simple person can understand it, while the most wise and clever will never understand it. If God did not spare Israel, how much less will He spare you if you continually change and twist His Word.
There is much more that we could say, but will not. We have found peace in the blood of our Saviour. No longer will we agree to deny the same honour to the Son as to the Father, because we then belittle the Father also. We will not let anyone hinder us from bringing the Good News of God's Kingdom to the people.
We have no bitterness in our hearts, but we love all our brothers. You may call us apostates and evil slaves etc. But remember that you as well as us will have to give an account before the judgement seat of Christ.
In our Lord and Saviour's precious Name.
Brother and Sister. Siegfried and Ruth Strohbach.
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Narkissos
Welcome OddNameClay,
As has been recently discussed, this very issue caused a major split among JWs in Romania:
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AlmostAtheist
Welcome Clay, and thank you for bringing up such an interesting topic!
Dave
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DannyHaszard
1979 district convention (100 year anniversary of the Watchtower) this was elaborated by the bethel speaker apologist.
His final summary,[quote] the watchtower was in error but where are those who left,they are now out in satan's world"[unquote]
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Atlantis
OddNameClay:
Welcome old chap! I love this topic, because it has shown the Tower for what it really is, and that being, a real hypocrite.
I always loved this scripture when it came to all of the changes the Tower made during all the years.
The scripture is 1Kings 18: 21 which says: "Then Elijah approached all the people and said: How long will you be limping upon (two different) opinions?"
This is what the Tower has done for over 100 years. Their opinion changes constantly from one thing to another. Many Jehovah's Witnesses around the world would give you 2 different answers right now concerning the Blood issue, and many other interpretations given by the Tower on any one topic.
Voting would be another one. Ask a Jehovah's Witness in Florida if it is OK for Jehovah's Witnesses to vote, and then ask another JW who is in New York. I guarantee you, you would get 2 different opinions or answers.
Jehovah's Witnesses are forever (limping) on two different opinions, yet the Bible indicates only one way to worship.
This tragedy has cost the lives of thousands, not only in blood transfusion issues, but in JW suicides as well!
Thanks!
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Dansk
Welcome OddnameClay!
Legolas - Great Post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ian
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gumby
I have documentation to the teaching, but is there any documentation for witnesses being disfellowshiped over the issue?
There is plenty of documentation in witness literature that specifically teaches that any who go beyond the organisations current teachings on any matter and openly expresses their contrary viewpoints are apostates and should be dealt with. The "Flock Books" are one such place this is mentioned in which apostacy is identified.....that being one who rejects the teachings handed down by the Faithfull and Discreet Slave Class.
The society is a bit more clever than to say at the end of a watchtower article in which new light has been published........"and any who disagree with this will be disfellowshipped". They do their dirty work behind closed doors in the congregations library.
Gumby
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under74
Good post OddNameClay and welcome to JWD. Glad you found the place and hope to see more posts from you.
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oldflame
It's funny how you can put all these falicies in front of a witness and they will find excuses for their changes in doctrine. I have found that very few and I mean very few will actually listen to what is being said. I remember my JW parents after I had left I told them I had many questions and wanted to talk about it with them. They invited me over and when I began to read scriptures that proved the trinity they said to me " This discussion is over" I call that being "PIG Headed" I don't understand how a person can give them plain understanding in their lies and deceit and false prophecies but they will run from you when you speak against their religion. Is it that they are scared of the real truth ?