Hell - is it a biblical teaching after all?

by Hellrider 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    As I once told my JW father, had Jesus told the parable of the rich man and Lazarus as a talk in the JW TMS he would certainly have been asked to work on his illustrations again.

    MM, I feel M.S. Peck is building a lot on Superman's underwear (as RM put it). What a tale doesn't tell simply doesn't exist. The point of Genesis 2.4a--3 is to highlight the human condition, the two main aspects of which being that man has got knowledge (in the tale, by stealing it from the gods) but not immortality (which the gods succeeded in keeping for themselves). Cf. 3:22f: " Then Yhwh god said, "See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad; and now, he might reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- therefore Yhwh god sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken." And, btw, "knowledge of good and bad" is not limited to moral discernment as the WT has it (resulting in the paratextual apory Hellrider points out, namely, how could he know it was bad? This is simply the result of asking more from a tale than it gives).

  • Honesty
    Honesty


    The WT claims that Luke 16:19-31 is simply an illustration and Jesus did not mean it to be taken literally. That position raises some questions that the WT/JW's cannot reconcile such as:

    1.) Why is it the only illustration in which people are named?
    2.) Why did the rich man go to Hades and Lazarus to Abraham's side if the only reason was because one was wealthy and the other poor?
    3.) Why does verse 21 read differently in the NWT than other bibles?
    4.) Did the rich man take care of Lazarus by feeding and clothing him or did he ignore his needs?
    5.) Does this scripture passage support the WT teaching that there is salvation after death (see verse 26) or is it a powerful, shocking, startling reality of life?

    Many sincere people would have others believe that there is some hope after death, a way for the lost to better themselves. That cannot be found in the bible, and nowhere in Scripture will you find Jesus promoting such error. Others claim that a loving God would not send people to a place of eternal separation from Him. However, at James 2:13 we read, For judgment is without mercy to the one who hasn’t shown mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

    Luke 18:18-22
    18 A ruler asked Him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
    19 “Why do you call Me good?” Jesus asked him. “No one is good but One—God.
    20 You know the commandments:
    Do not commit adultery;
    do not murder;
    do not steal;
    do not bear false witness;
    honor your father and mother.”
    21 “I have kept all these from my youth,” he said.
    22 When Jesus heard this, He told him, “You still lack one thing: sell all that you have and distribute it to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”

    Luke 16:19-31 (HCSB)

    The Rich Man and Lazarus

    19 “There was a rich man who would dress in purple and fine linen, feasting lavishly every day.

    20 But a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, was left at his gate.

    21 He longed to be filled with what fell from the rich man’s table, but instead the dogs would come and lick his sores.

    22 One day the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s side.The rich man also died and was buried.

    23 And being in torment in Hades, he looked up and saw Abraham a long way off, with Lazarus at his side.

    24 ‘Father Abraham!’ he called out, ‘Have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this flame!’

    25 “ ‘Son,’Abraham said, ‘remember that during your life you received your good things, just as Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here, while you are in agony.

    26 Besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that those who want to pass over from here to you cannot; neither can those from there cross over to us.’

    27 “ ‘Father,’ he said, ‘then I beg you to send him to my father’s house—

    28 because I have five brothers—to warn them, so they won’t also come to this place of torment.’

    29 “But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; they should listen to them.’

    30 “ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said. ‘But if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

    31 “But he told him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

    *** Rbi8 Luke 16:19-31 ***
    19 “But a certain man was rich, and he used to deck himself with purple and linen, enjoying himself from day to day with magnificence. 20 But a certain beggar named Laz'a·rus used to be put at his gate, full of ulcers 21 and desiring to be filled with the things dropping from the table of the rich man. Yes, too, the dogs would come and lick his ulcers. 22 Now in course of time the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom [position] of Abraham.
    “Also, the rich man died and was buried. 23 And in Ha'des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw Abraham afar off and Laz'a·rus in the bosom [position] with him. 24 So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Laz'a·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you received in full your good things in your lifetime, but Laz'a·rus correspondingly the injurious things. Now, however, he is having comfort here but you are in anguish. 26 And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and YOU people, so that those wanting to go over from here to YOU people cannot, neither may people cross over from there to us.’ 27 Then he said, ‘In that event I ask you, father, to send him to the house of my father, 28 for I have five brothers, in order that he may give them a thorough witness, that they also should not get into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to these.’ 30 Then he said, ‘No, indeed, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’”

    Just a few thoughts on the matter, keeping in mind that everyone is free to reach their own conclusion and opinions. However, if the WT is right then where is judgement when people can exterminate millions of others like the Nazi leaders did during WWII then die by natural causes or be executed and be resurrected into paradise but any person who leaves the Jehovah's Witnesses and then dies is not worthy of a resurrection just because they either disagreed with its teachings or were thrown out of the congregation because a three person tribunal judged them to be an unrepentant sinner?

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    Yeah, of coarse there's a hell. Just go to any volcano and you'll see the excess spewing out. That's why our wise prophets of old wrote about it for us. Using Gods inspiration of coarse.

    steve

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