the best public talk i ever heard was one i heard in a jw kingdom hall.
unfortunately, the hurriedly formed jc disfellowshipped him within a couple of weeks for not worshipping the octo(headed) gb.
this happened two years back when i was his fellow-elder.
I am sorry for the late reply (I was bit busy)
They did not try and stop him or get him off the stage or unplug the mike? They let him continue. In the meantime BOE had decided that their representative would make an announcement after the talk. Coordinator made an announcement that the talk was not delivered properly, hence "we request you to listen to the same subject next Sunday, which will be delivered by another elder."
though judicial committee arrangement is found in mathew 18:15-20, this seems to be a later apostate interpolation!
(acts 20:28-30):.
1) jesus would not speak of such a heartless arrangement whereby a person who does not listen to the church is finally disfellowshipped, because it is in sharp contrast to what he was saying in mathew 18:14 and mathew 18:21-35; 1 peter 2:22; contrast also mathew 5:3, 40, 41; 16:24.. 2) jesus would not have told his disciples (mathew 18:1) to take things to the church (presently more than 40,000 in numbers) which obviously did not exist then.
Though Judicial Committee arrangement is found in Mathew 18:15-20, this seems to be a later apostate interpolation! (Acts 20:28-30):
1) Jesus would not speak of such a heartless arrangement whereby a person who does not listen to the Church is finally disfellowshipped, because it is in sharp contrast to what he was saying in Mathew 18:14 and Mathew 18:21-35; 1 Peter 2:22; contrast also Mathew 5:3, 40, 41; 16:24.
2) Jesus would not have told “his disciples” (Mathew 18:1) to take things to “the CHURCH” (presently more than 40,000 in numbers) which obviously did not exist then. (Mathew 18:17)
3) Jesus would not have spoken of “tax collectors and Gentiles” as irreclaimable outsiders (Mathew 18:17) in contrast to his often repeated policy of compassion and friendship towards them. (Mathew 9:10; 11:19; Luke 1810-14)
4) And if at all Jesus did say what is in Mathew 18:-15-20, then it would only mean that the disfellowshipped ones ‘would enter the kingdom of God ahead of’ the fellowshipped ones (Mathew 21:31), just the opposite of what interpolators wanted to convey.
5) No wonder James, while handling more serious problems among the brothers, shows no knowledge of what Jesus supposedly said in Mathew 18:15-20! (James 3:14-4:17)
Hence, the whole thrust of the interpolated passage seems to project the Church as having power to RETAIN and to FORGIVE sins. (Mathew 18:18) How blind the JWs must be to copy this arrangement from apostates as one of their pillars and chief weapon! Interestingly, Judicial Committee arrangement, as practiced among JWs, is in sharp contrast to what is being practiced in the heavens. People who have undergone Past Regression Therapy* have given extensive details about the lives in between their earthly lives, which shed light ALSO on Council of Master (highly evolved) Souls or ELDERS in Heaven. This is the gist:
When someone dies, his “the spirit returns” to the Spirit World (Ecclesiastes 12:7), where he is warmly received by all his (available) beloved ones and friends who died before him. Then he is taken to the House of Healing, where he is rejuvenated. He is given enough time (often more than his earthly life-span) to review his life he just concluded on earth. Once he has all the details about himself and all others involved in his life on earth directly or indirectly, he comes to a conclusion about the way he lived his life on earth. Then he is taken to a Council of Master Souls comprising of six or more. Here the soul’s previous life is reviewed collectively. The Master Souls are in NO WAY CONDEMNATORY or JUDGMENTAL, but extremely loving and compassionate helpers who have lived many lives on this earth, hence very well-experienced. The soul himself makes the judgment on his living and places the solution before the Council. If the solution is viewed best by the Council, they would say ok; or else they may suggest many other options which are put before the soul with no compulsion at all. Soul chooses the next environment, friends, relatives, parents and even a new body (sometimes a crippled body, if need be, to work out some special Karmic debt of previous birth). After taking rebirth on earth, some may forget their purpose, and return to the Council only to repeat the whole process again and again. Others may steadily progress, and go to higher Levels ….. which look almost infinite in numbers … and finally reach where God Himself resides after billions and billions …. of years.
Hence earthly life is like a school, where one is supposed to gain a minimum qualification. Council of Master Souls examines impartially whether one has lived up to HIS NATURE (not whether one has obeyed certain laws or lived up to certain belief system ). What is man’s nature? Humans APPRECIATE being loved and ABHOR being harmed. Hence man nature is to love and to refrain from doing harm, like the fire whose nature is to give light and heat. One has to return to earth till he is willing to behave according to his very nature, which is a quite natural thing to do.
[Council compassionately deals even with those difficult souls who are mistakenly called demons or ghosts. These are actually souls that may develop some extreme habits, rather than living with a guest-attitude considering themselves as “temporary residents” while on earth, wanting to ‘return to their original home, a better place,’ thus viewing the world as a drama-stage. (Hebrews 11:13-16, Philippians 3:20; 1 Corinthians 7:31; and 1 John 2:17). Such extreme souls may STUBBORNLY refuse to go forward, but may prefer to TEMPORARILY linger around in pursuit of their unfulfilled desires—helpful/harmful. They get attracted to only people of their sort. They all are allowed to use their free-will and are taken first to the Rehabilitation Process once they are convinced of the folly of their life-style, and then to the Council for collective review.]
Hence, the whole approach of God seems to be very simple: ANY SOUL IS FREE TO BEHAVE THE WAY IT LIKES IN WHICHEVER LEVEL IT MAY BE. BUT IF IT WANTS TO MOVE TO A HIGHER LEVEL, IT HAS TO ACQUIRE THE NEEDED QUALIFICATION. THERE IS NO COMPULSION WHATSOEVER!
Foot-note:
Though many (Dr. Michael Newton, Dr. Brian Weiss, Dr. William Roll, Dr. Ken Ring, Dr. Bruce Greyson, Dr. Melvin Morse, Dr. Raymond A Moody …..) have published case-histories of their clients, Michael Newton’s books are exceptional—especially his “DESTINY OF SOULS” in which he presents case-histories of his clients in an orderly, subject-wise manner which suggests the existence of a perfect system of things in the invisible heavens.
**this was predicted from some members here**.
to all congregations .
re: adjustments in organizational terminology and assembly arrangements .
"Empty-nest syndrome"
I liked this phrase
it is very difficult to knock a ball into a hole (like golf), throw it into a receiver's hands (american football) intercept it and knock it over the fence (american cricket).
or to put a sattelite at the right time at the right speed in the right direction in the right place to have it orbit another body, so :.
what ingenious natural & process is it, than can get 9+ zillions bodies to get into the right orbit simultaniously or sequentially and have them remain there for billions of years?
Very nice, enjoyed it!
the best public talk i ever heard was one i heard in a jw kingdom hall.
unfortunately, the hurriedly formed jc disfellowshipped him within a couple of weeks for not worshipping the octo(headed) gb.
this happened two years back when i was his fellow-elder.
Yes PaintedToeNail, I agree with you. God can definitely say:
Look at THE MAN! who refuses to worship 8-headed idol!
the best public talk i ever heard was one i heard in a jw kingdom hall.
unfortunately, the hurriedly formed jc disfellowshipped him within a couple of weeks for not worshipping the octo(headed) gb.
this happened two years back when i was his fellow-elder.
The best Public Talk I ever heard was one I heard in a JW Kingdom Hall. Unfortunately, the hurriedly formed JC disfellowshipped him within a couple of weeks for not worshipping the Octo(headed) GB. This happened two years back when I was his fellow-elder. When questioned after the talk, he said so casually: ‘I wanted to speak the truth at least once from the platform, and come out of “the truth” forever!’
He was talking on the subject: “Jehovah is a Jealous God.”
After closely following the WT PT Outline for some time, his style began to change. On making the quote from the Bible: “I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.” (Exodus 20:5), he said this statement seems to be of Mose’s own. A God whom Jesus revealed would not speak like this.
The kind of God Jesus introduced is a God who will not punish, curse or destroy anybody, no matter how wicked he is. (Mathew 5:44-48) He just lets people learn from their experiences and lets each one to take his own time to grow to maturity. (Luke 15:11-31) Any other concepts found in the Bible contrary to this clear statement of Jesus and his picturization are later development. (Acts 20:28-30)
God would not choose a group of people as His own for the simple reason that he is “impartial” to all people and all are His children. (Deuteronomy 10:17) The statement God supposedly made in Exodus 20:5 is after the great miracle of parting of Red Sea on behalf of His “own people.” It is unlikely that this miracle has taken place. Because it is impossible for a people who saw such a great miracle to immediately turn into calf-worship, insulting the loving God who performed such miraculous feat. Not only this, God would not have performed any miracle, as reported in the Bible. Because, earth is filled with miracles—life and all life-support systems—are all greater miracles than those claimed to have taken place in the Bible period! Besides, if God or His representative performs any miracle, the question will arise: If miracles can happen in the past, why not now?
God’s style of functioning is so simple that it rules out a written word to guide people on earth. He knows ACTION speaks louder than words! God whose essence is “goodness” does what is good for the sake of goodness. (Luke 18:19) People are free to copy His essence! For example, take eye-sight we are endowed with. If all humans were born blind, would we ever have felt the NEED of vision, and asked God: “We would have better enjoyed our lives if you had also given us the ability to see.” But the truth is that God cared and provided for something which we are actually INCAPABLE of even discerning its need. One can list millions of things like these testifying God’s majestic goodness. The lesson His action conveys is that if you want to be like God, or spiritual, you discern the need of others and care for it even before he/she asks for it. (Mathew 6:8; Galatians 5:14) If you are thus spiritual/virtuous, you are the one who benefits primarily. [This is in contrast to what we hear in our households: “How many times should I tell you?” which sows the seed of discord …..] If you are spiritual, you experience serenity which in turn strengthens your immunity and ensures a good relationship with others. If not, stress results, immunity suffers, relationship suffers … loss after loss! (http://www.thehealingcode.com/home.php)
Not only God’s action, even His inaction teaches us a valuable lesson. Over the millenniums many religions have presented Him differently, even belittling Him, yet He has done nothing to correct theml; He would have done it if religions were His, and if He wanted praise from humans. His approach is that if you prefer fleshly life, your enjoyment will be limited; on the contrary if you “walk by the spirit,” your enjoyment will be unlimited. (Galatians 5:13-26) This allows everyone to grow spiritual in his own way and his own time!
Effect of his talk:
No one accepted his ideas except me in whom the seed he sowed sprouted gradually. He never came to meet the brothers, and no one knows where he is now!
when i read today in this site: can god see into the future?
(by duvanmuvan ), i thought of posting an article, rather than commenting!.
did god know that adam and eve would disobey?
Adam and Eve are just symbols. The situation we find ourselves in are similar to what Adam and Eve supposedly found themselves in--would man do something which he knows would end in his suffering?
Tortoise and hare are just symbols. But diligence and laziness they displayed are more real than the symbols.
when i read today in this site: can god see into the future?
(by duvanmuvan ), i thought of posting an article, rather than commenting!.
did god know that adam and eve would disobey?
When I read today in this site: Can God see into the future? (by DuvanMuvan ), I thought of posting an article, rather than commenting!
Did God know that Adam and Eve would disobey? is a wrong question!
Right question is: Did Adam and Eve know that their disobedience would lead to suffering? Answer is YES.
This answer is not a guesswork, because situation is same even today—even after seeing the results, people in general behave the way Adam and Eve did. For example:
1) Do people know: PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE? (Yes, they know, but they prefer cure to prevention which is a costlier and painful method)
2) Do people know: WE SHOULD REDUCE EXPENSE WHEN INCOME DECREASES? (Yes, they know. Yet population had and has been increasing despite dwindling resources)
3) Do people know: WE SHOULD NOT BUY SOMETHING GIVING MORE THAN ITS VALUE? (Yes, they know. Yet people are buying shares of companies giving even 10 or 100 times more than the value)
4) Do people know how to avoid wastage? (Yes, they do. Take just one example: Many thinking people have long suggested that everyone who excels above all in a particular field should automatically become a member of Legislative Body of his country for a limited period, thus supplying the best rulers for the country in all aspects—without the extravaganza of Election Process)
5) Do people know how to bring down crime rate? (Yes, they do. Today’s judicial system is more about punishment of the perpetrator of a crime rather than giving compensation to the victim. For example, for every crime there should be 10 or 100 times compensation, the amount of which should be confiscated from the criminal, his family, his relatives, his township, his school, his religion---all those who failed in inculcating values in him.)
God only teaches us, neither rewards nor punishs us!
If you want to know more about superior laws and superior system of things existing in the Spirit World, and other planets, read DESTINY OF SOULS, written by Dr. Michael Newton. This is the best book I have ever read in my life! Really an invaluable treasure!!!
1) if an atheist becomes selfish, others have no reason to be discouraged.
but see what happens if a religious leader becomes selfish, many may copy his behavior.
[many people know how lavishly rutherford lived even during great depression].
When I implied: Many atheists became theists when they heard their own speech recorded during their hypnosis (talking about their own past lives and meeting their dead loved ones in the spirit world, and God's various arrangements in the spirit world ....), it does show I am believer in God!
1) if an atheist becomes selfish, others have no reason to be discouraged.
but see what happens if a religious leader becomes selfish, many may copy his behavior.
[many people know how lavishly rutherford lived even during great depression].
I should have quoted the Scripture: “Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to care for the orphans and widows in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world.” (James 1:27, NAB) Hence true religion is caring about fellow humans (not about God, who does’nt require our care--1 John 4:7).
An atheist who cares for others is better than Rutherford who lived a luxurious life, even during Great Depression. That was my point!
