Master_Bob

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Posts by Master_Bob

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  12

  European Prospective 2017-2022

  by sp74bb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the new "business plan" for jw.org in europe has already received a name within the org: european prospective 2017-2022.. this plan is already on the table of the big guys in the us.

  in the practice it has been already getting the approval of the majority.

  so, no surprise at all to vote it.. essential features of the "business plan":- sale of all branches in the eu, except germany and uk (the latter benefits from brexit and certain privileged position)- all printing and digital material prepared and printed from germany- in each country, a local liaison office is left, certainly no more than 3-4 families.- free part-time worker is boosted from home, cheaper and hastle-free !- money to the new entity formed in belgium, as a non-profit organization (ibsa goodbye ...)- the most complicated ... who will care for the data of european jw ... confidential information and color envelopped with sensitive information.... enjoy the new european jw times !.

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  Master_Bob

  What about the "core" of each Bethel, namely the Service Department and the translation team. Will they also be relocated?
  
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  95

  Supreme Court Of Russia bans Jehovah's Witnesses as an 'extremist organization'

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  read the news here.

  the jehovah's witnesses lost their appeal to the supreme court of russia.

  bethel to be liquidated.. i bet the gb saw this coming ... here comes the persecution complex paranoia.

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  Master_Bob

  It's just about a local JW legal entity. The most the state can do is to size the local KH. No problems for Bethel or other JW property in Russia.
  
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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

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  Master_Bob

  Perry, from strictly logical standpoint you are missapplying the word 'Beginning'.

  In your statement "Whatever begins to exist had a cause." the word 'begins' is defined as a temporal point bounding the start of existence. Our human experience confirms this statement.

  One the other hand the statement "The Universe had a beginning" does not mean the same kind of temporal point of 'beginning' as in our human experience, because the time itself did not existed before/outside this Universe.

  So the same word is used in both sentences, but it means two essentially different things. Hence the source of the confusion and the logical fallacy.
  
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  35

  My Story of Waking Up - in retrospect

  by cappytan in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so, many of y'all know bits and pieces of my story of waking up, but i thought it might be nice to have it all in one place.. i was baptized at 11, auxiliary pioneered every summer, regular pioneer at 17, ministerial servant by 19, then went to bethel for a year.. i always had minor doubts from time to time, but nothing serious.

  always dismissed doubts and decided to "just have faith.".

  after leaving bethel, i was never really firing on all cylinders "spiritually speaking.

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  Master_Bob

  Thanks for sharing your story, its really encouraging to see people still paying attention to how the world is in reality and compare it to the org version of it (be it science, history, theology..). I' m intending too to share my story soon, hoping it will help others see the real face of this relgion.

  p.s JWfacts is really awsome! I think if we gather all the people that get to know the REAL truth because if it every year we could easily fill an average assembly hall, or two.
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  21

  Joined up, long time looking

  by highline20 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  joined the site, not that i have much to share.. i'm married to a jw (wife).

  i never have been or will be a jw, i honestly hate the wt (not the jws).

  being married to a jw, can sometimes make you crazy, i never believed any of the bs.

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  Master_Bob

  highline20, warm welcome!

  In my opinion the best way to help your wife stop wasting her time is to help her get socialized outside of the organization. For a JW everything is about religion and co-belivers. And since it's a new country for her it may be difficult to find friends outside the congregation.
  
  Help her find friends that she enjoys spending time with OUTSIDE the religion, may it be your relatives, neigbour co-workers or whatever. Spend more time together with normal people and stop buying cheap tricks from JWs, like free lunch.

  You may also help her with her guilts about not doing enough for her religion by assuring that god understands her, that now she has a baby to take care of and all the staff :-)
  
  Be supportive, but at the same time indiffernet when she tries to talk to you about religion.
  In this forum you can find many suggestions as to how to speak properly to JWs, by asking questions, etc, to help them understand the abusive essence of their religion.
  
  Good luck.
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  25

  Glory of CREATOR is that

  by exWTslave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  glory of creator is that he has given us life and life support systems to enjoy the life to the full.

  yet he doesnt want any glory for that nor thanks from ushence he remains away.

  that means his life (or style of functioning) is the message (making all communicationoral or written unnecessary).

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  Master_Bob

  exWTslave I asked those questions to help you understnad the flaws in your system. The mere act of creation by a God (even if sb accepts it as valid) does not make that God good or evil. If you stress your view on the joyful side of the life, then you may conclude that it (God) is good. But when you stress your view on the suffering of the billion of peolpe and animals you may very well call it is bad. So creation is not a moral feature.

  But that is just a philosophical exercise and has nothing to do with the real world which does not require a creator and to which remaining-away entities are indifferent.

  Also there were more interesting poionts in my post which remain unaddressed...
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  25

  Glory of CREATOR is that

  by exWTslave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  glory of creator is that he has given us life and life support systems to enjoy the life to the full.

  yet he doesnt want any glory for that nor thanks from ushence he remains away.

  that means his life (or style of functioning) is the message (making all communicationoral or written unnecessary).

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  Master_Bob

  exWTslave I think you are trying to say something, nut you must try a little bit harder for your system to have coherence, For example you say

  Now you try the same life-style—make your life your message—doing good for the sake of goodness.

  What if I choose to make my life my message by doing evil for the sake of evil, because that's what makes my life more meaningful and enjoyable. Wouldn't I still be godlike?

  Then you say

  the human mind transcends matter to some extent

  well it may or it may not. Anyway quantum physics has nothing to do with that question, ok? And your "In other words" is just a way to avoid solid argument (which doesn't exist in this case).

  But my favourite is

  "Cognition presupposes duality"

  Let me show the fallacy of this statement. If the consciousness of one's self required the seperation of the subject and the object, the same would be true about the consciousness of the consciousness of one's self (ie beeing aware of the consciousness of your own self). That type of awareness would require triality. Even worse the awareness of the consciousness of the consciousness of one's self would reqire Quadrality, and so on, till infinity.

  New Age type Buddism isn't bud, but when you mess it with real sciense things start to get screwed..
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  35

  JAN 2015 Awake - Yet More Fallacies and Disingenuous Statements re Evolution/Creation

  by konceptual99 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so the new awake is up.. first question..... "how did life begin?.

  how would you complete the following sentance?.

  life is the result of..... a. evolution.

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  Master_Bob

  Listener I like much more the article in the issue of March 8, 1983, named "Creationism—Is It Scientific?"

  Descussing the same trial it states:

  "Geologists can point to their measurements of geologic processes that extend far beyond that narrow time frame. Ocean sediments have accumulated over far more than 10,000 years. The time to build mountains and wear them down is measured in millions of years. For continents to drift apart and form oceans takes hundreds of millions of years. To say that all of this goes back only 10,000 years is simply absurd in the eyes of geologists."

  That's really useful to know borg, thank you for your courage to accept some scientific facts here. Because this stuff really contradicts what YOU teach about the deluge causing continental shift and the rise of mountains. But I guess this doesn't matter much when you have an army of brainwashed sheeps to command.
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  35

  JAN 2015 Awake - Yet More Fallacies and Disingenuous Statements re Evolution/Creation

  by konceptual99 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so the new awake is up.. first question..... "how did life begin?.

  how would you complete the following sentance?.

  life is the result of..... a. evolution.

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  Master_Bob

  New creationist Awake 1/15, again...

  And this time except of plain scientific ignorance, it's full of gross logical errors.

  Consider the phrace from the 1st paragraph of the 2nd article:

  "...they [scientists] still cannot define with certainty just what life is. A wide gulf separates nonliving matter from even the simplest living cell."

  If there is such a big gulf between nonliving matter and simplest form of life, why can't this "gulf" be the "certain" definition of life? Two sentences, side by side, contradicting each other so much...

  They also mention two scientists to support their position. One of them is Rama Singh. From my short research I found out he is a real scientist and of course he supports evolution. The other one is the entomologist named Gerard. Really? Gerard? Like Bob or Daniel? Apparently it was not only his scientific insight on entomology that convinced him about the falsehood of evolution, but rather the Bible book, where "he found satisfying answers to questions about mankind’s past". Well done on giving up the scientific methodology Mr. Gerard whatever.

  The magazine if full of ignorance and misrepresentation of the theory of evolution that is obvious to anyone with little education on the subject, but I want to stand on only one point. The textbox "Did You Know?" contains pure lie. It says

  "THE BIBLE IS NOT ANTISCIENCE. ...While the Bible is not a science textbook, it is consistent with scientific fact. For example, the Bible does not support creationism. It does not state that the earth was created in six literal 24-hour days. The term “day” as used in Genesis applies to periods of considerable length. *"

  Really? JW are not creationists? Come on dudes.. The creation days were not 24-hour, but they where 7000 years, yes? Oh, it make so much more sense! And it really don't contradict science. Like the global flood doesn't. Or the pyramids being built after 2000 BC, or innumerable other JW nonsense... How many of the thankful jws will notice the contradiction I mentioned in the beginning, or any other stupidities written here? Can't believe I was going to peoples doors with this bullshit...
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  99

  Leaving the JWs, experiencing Christianity and finding freedom! (But it took awhile)

  by im_free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is my first post here.. i was raised in "the truth", and am an ex-bethelite who worked in brooklyn for several years back in the 90's.

  a few years after i left bethel, i started to become disillusioned after doing research about the society and reading crisis of conscience (i know..i wasn't supposed to do that lol).

  i eventually stopped attending meetings and going out in service.

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  Master_Bob

  im_free this video appears on the first page of youtube search:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RuCLB6vM3M

  Now why do we have to belive that this guy is not just pretending? Because of the conservation with the "deamon"? And since when "deamons" obey television censorship laws? Do you also belive David Copperfield magics are real?

  humbled it good to hear that Jesus' stories made you more generous and forgiving. There are people that don't appreciate his treatment of slaves and gentiles that much. I prefer to evaluate the consequences of my actions in the real world that we live and act according to results of evaluatiion with the goal to make the world a better place.