I was a straight A honor roll student up until 7th grade, the year my family started attending meetings with Jehovah's Witnessess, I remember being the only child in the class not raising their hand when the teacher would ask who is going to college. I really wanted to go, but the current light of that time prohibited it, and my dad wanted to raise me the best JW I could be. None of the elders in my congregation were college-educated, and one in particular told me that it is not proper for a JW to attend college. I remember being so depressed in school, viewing it as pointless, I really was led to believe that all schooling would be a waste of time because of the nearness of armageddon. When I was about 17, already dropped out of public school and in home school, I remember articles saying a little technical college possibly could be OK as needed to pursue theocratic goals, but a four year education was mentioned as too much, I also remember the dramas at the assemblies around the same time using examples of teenagers saying no to college and yes to pioneering. That was around 1999. Needless to say, I have finally made it to college and once again making straight A's.
BULLFROG
JoinedPosts by BULLFROG
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Higher Educaton
by franklin J inwhat is the current thinking of the watchtower society concernng higher education these days?
in 1977 i entered college from a full pioneer status and was duly criticized from the local elders.
back at that time, higher education was actively discouraged.
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How do you explain to a jw...
by Gadget inhow do you explain to a jw why you don't believe the jw teachings anymore?
you can explain what you believe and why, but if they're deeply in they can just pass it off as 'needing faith' etc.
so without going into deep deep issues(i prefer the keep it simple, sweetie approach), what points do you use to make jws think about things?
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BULLFROG
I personally never try to argue things that can not be proved (like doctrines), I just tell Jehovah's Witnessess experiences in my life. Like one time a new Jehovah's Witnessess asked me why I wasn't in college. I told her the truth, that in when I was growing up the WT looked down upon it and the elders in my congregation encouraged me not to go. I think that when you tell the truth about your experience with the congregation, nobody can argue with that, that witness could not say that the WT did not preach that are that the elders did not discourage it.
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...but I happen to like the JWs/WT.....
by ScoobySnax injehovah's witnesses.
the organisation.
i love 'em both still.
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BULLFROG
After reading most of the posts, I'd have to say that scooby is contradicting himself either on purpose or he is lost and in need of some serious therapy & counseling.
If you love the organization, you must not love yourself, as you have admitted that you are gay. And if you belief it is the truth, then you must not belief yourself, because their beliefs about gays could not possibly be yours, since you are openly gay.
I can totally understand loving people who are jw's, after all it's not their fault. But loving the organization, you are either very confused about what love is or you know exactly what you're doing by writing such words. In both cases I would suggest therapy.
What I suggest, is to get involved in other organizations that you don't have to hide who you are and what you really believe. That is one of the reasons the WTS is so successful, because from day one, followers are instructed to cut off their options, so I suggest go out and open your other options and I'm sure you will find people that you don't have to hide what you believe and who you say you are (maybe a gay rights activist group). If you really do love the WTS, then I suggest some counseling, because they teach you to hate yourself because you are gay.
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Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control
by minimus inif you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".
it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.
how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?
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BULLFROG
Everything we do in life we choose to. Nobody (unless you believe in demon possession of the human body) can take away our choices.
If somebody holds a gun to our heads and tells us to do something, we still have a choice. But I think everyone would agree that when having a gun held to our head, to do something someone else instructed us to do, would be considered Physical or Body Control. Is that because we did not have a choice? Wrong! We have a choice, that doesn't mean that we wanted to do what the person with the gun says, but we would probably do it out of fear for our lives. It wasn't initiated from our own hears, but we would do it because the gunman told us to do it. And that is physical control. How much more so, if we saw others shot before our eyes by the same gunman for not following his instructions.
It's the same with witnesses, they have choices, they make choices, they make the choice to shun people, to go out in service, to do all the things WTS says to do, but don't they also have a gun to their heads, a spiritual gun? And they have certainly been eyewitnesses to the WTS pulling the trigger on those who chose to disagree or disobey. So as most people would not argue with a gunman, so do most witnesses not argue with the WTS, for it means death just the same.
I know as a JW, I was deeply afraid of dying in Armageddon which was strongly insinuated by Elders and WT, that it would come in a few years. I did things I didn't feel right about because the WTS put a spiritual gun to my head telling me that God would hate me and kill me. After baptism, it was like having another gun to your head, you have to worry about Armageddon and Disfellowshipping. I made the choices to do things as a JW, I conciously made the choice to follow the WTS, even if it did not feel right in my heart, but that is because of the two big ass guns to my head, I definitely was afraid of being shot spiritually.
So that is why JW's are under MIND CONTROL because they are controlled by the fear of death and are instructed what to do in order to avoid death. They make the concious decision not to die by the WTS by following their commandments. That doesn't mean they feel right about the decisions they make.
And isn't that what control is? Instructing somebody to do something that they would'nt otherwise do, by a mental threat of death by God and death by disfellowshipping.
And as far as the previous comment: "Membership in any group is contingent on playing the game by their rules." In most cases that statement is 100% accurate, but comparing WTS to other organizations is like comparing apples and oranges. WTS is unlike any other organization that I know of. They are the only organization that I have belonged to that has threatened me to die if I did not believe and obey everything they sat. I have been apart of many organizations, Work related, YMCA, Youth baseball, boy scouts, school's, debate groups, you name it I've done it. And to be apart of those organizations, for the most part I had to play their game. But I was never threatened with death by those organizations for disagreeing or leaving them. They didn't tell me that if I did not advocate for that organization I would die, they didn't tell me how to think. My friends from those organizations, didn't shun me because I changed shools or jobs (even leaving on bad terms from the job, ie fired), they were still my friends and my employers in most cases supported and encouraged me to find employment elsewhere. I didn't live in fear of death because I didn't play by their rules. Can't you see the difference in comparing the WTS to other Organizations? And that's why other organizations who want you to play their game do not exercise mind control, can you see the difference?
"The fact remains that any JW can leave whenever they want to, and many of us are living proof. You just have to want to leave badly enough to pay the prices,"
Saying a JW has a choice to leave is like telling a person with a gun to their head, that it is their fault, and they could of chose to have been shot then to do what the gunman says. JW's make the choice, but they are under mental control by the WTS because the only reason they make the choice is the big spiritual gun to their heads. Can you blame them?
Just imagine if the WTS told JW's they no longer had to fear Armageddon or disfellowshipping, that God will be happy with them no matter what. Do you think the JW's would still act the same? Hell no! They would be totally different people, they would in fact act like people who are not under mind control.