While I think there has been a little progress (not nearly enough, though!) in JW child abuse policy over the years since exposés like Dateline and Panorama were aired c. 2002, I agree with you, Kate, that JW attitudes to domestic violence have pretty much stayed the same.
AnnOMaly
JoinedPosts by AnnOMaly
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Wondering what you guys think about child abuse...
by bobert into start off, i'm not saying this happens, or doesn't.
i'm just a bit confused on the subject, and what you guys are always talking about.
what exactly is it with the wt on the issue of child abuse?
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Has Harry Peloyan passed away?
by VM44 inharry peloyan was the editor of the awake!
magazine for decades.. it has been claimed that he passed away in the year 2005.. but....i cannot find any record for him in the social security death index.. his wife, rose, is listed, but harry peloyan is not.. could harry peloyan still be alive?.
if he did die, why isn't his name listed in the social security death index?.
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AnnOMaly
He was still alive when his life story in the WT came out in the May 1, 2006 edition. He mentioned the recent loss of his wife. If he himself had died before his story was published, there would have been a note at the end of the article.
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My First "Publication Free" Study...
by HeyThere inwas not so publication free.
do witnesses not know how to talk about the bible without a wt pub to guide them?.
fist, she tried to get me to start once again in the bible teach book as if i had never said i didnt want to study from the pubs, so i reminded her.
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AnnOMaly
Another avenue you could explore with your JW friend - and this argument slapped me right in the kisser at the time (thanks to Marvin Shilmer) - how can JWs say they are 'abstaining from blood' when they are taking from blood in the form of fractions? The blood has to be donated, it has to be stored and processed and fractionated and stored - no end of JW 'prohibitions' are being ignored along the way - until a JW needs it and transfuses those processed and stored fractions that come from a product that was initially to be abstained from!
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My First "Publication Free" Study...
by HeyThere inwas not so publication free.
do witnesses not know how to talk about the bible without a wt pub to guide them?.
fist, she tried to get me to start once again in the bible teach book as if i had never said i didnt want to study from the pubs, so i reminded her.
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AnnOMaly
HeyThere:
... it was during this part of the convo that she said the stuff about blood giving the recipient the addictions of the person the blood came from.
Apart from her statement being complete nonsense (as others have already pointed out), when the theological or scriptural arguments against blood transfusions fall apart, JWs (and I did it myself with people) would switch to medical arguments against blood transfusions - the health risks, etc.
The medical argument is irrelevant. Blood transfusions could be completely risk free and healthy, but if the theological argument stands up, JWs still wouldn't be able to have one no matter how wonderful they are because God's prohibition would be clear. Seeing as the theological arguments are full of holes and inconsistencies, they have to use real, exaggerated or bogus horror stories about transfusion health risks to bolster their case. Don't let your JW do that. Keep doing what you are doing in bringing her back to the scriptural arguments.
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What happened in Christianity ? O.T prophets were male & female ,God was not gender specific,
by smiddy inaccording to scripture they could.
sure in jw land anybody could partake of the emblems and wine , male and female denoting they could be rulers with christ in his heavenly kingdom , however did many of these partakers actually have any say with the governing body ?
in fact did any of them have any say in their own kingdom halls ?
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AnnOMaly
Acts 21:8, 9 - "The next day we left and came to Caes·a·re′a, and we entered the house of Philip the evangelizer, who was one of the seven men, and we stayed with him. This man had four unmarried daughters who prophesied."
Romans 16:1, 2 - "I am introducing to you Phoe′be, our sister, who is a minister [Gk. diakonos*] of the congregation that is in Cen′chre·ae, so that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the holy ones and give her whatever help she may need, for she herself also proved to be a defender of many, including me."
* The same word is used of 'deacons' at Philemon 1:1; 1 Tim. 3:8, 12
Romans 16:7 - "Greet An·dron′i·cus and Ju′ni·as [Gk. Junia - a woman's name], my relatives and fellow prisoners, who are men well-known to the apostles [lit. 'notable (ones) in the apostles'- see KIT] and who have been in union with Christ longer than I have."
This Scripture is more ambiguous regarding Junia's status, but it's interesting that the RNWT still interprets the name as belonging to a male.
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Wondering what you guys think about child abuse...
by bobert into start off, i'm not saying this happens, or doesn't.
i'm just a bit confused on the subject, and what you guys are always talking about.
what exactly is it with the wt on the issue of child abuse?
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AnnOMaly
As far as I know, the elder's book directs elders to immediatly report know pedos to the police.
You are mistaken. The elders' book directs elders to immediately report to the WTS Branch Office, Legal Department for direction (Shepherd (2010) book, p. 131). The Oct. 1, 2012 BOE letter emphasizes the same.*
If the law in your state or country is to report all accusations of child abuse to the authorities, then the WTS's Legal Dept will instruct elders to do that. If it is NOT the law to report to the authorities, then the Legal Dept will not instruct that. The accusation/judicial process will be dealt with in-house. However, the elders are instructed not to discourage a family or victim from going to the police but to leave it as their choice.
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* "Most states have child-abuse reporting laws that, depending on the facts, mandate elders
to report an accusation to the authorities. Thus, when elders learn of an accusation of child
abuse, two elders from their congregation should immediately call the Legal Department for legal
advice." -
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Misquote in the Creation Book
by ILoveTTATT inmy dad came into the jw's because someone studied the "creation" book with him.
it pains me deeply that he sent me an e-mail recently saying that to keep the peace with my mom, he will stop communicating with me as much as possible.
i should communicate with him only if i have an emergency.. it upsets me to no end, but i cannot do anything or much about it.
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AnnOMaly
In addition to ozbrad's resource, it's worth checking out http://corior.blogspot.com/ under the subheading, "The WTS View of Creation and Evolution" - it's VERY detailed. But there's nothing like discovering the misleading and misapplied quotes for yourself, hey?
A comment from the site:
In general, Creation presents an incomplete and distorted picture of geologists' findings and of what evolutionists say. A journal that reviewed the book* said that
"the anonymous author or authors... of this book not only quote out of context but also fail to show the reader that words, phrases and clauses have been omitted from quotations."
It commented further that
"one additional distinction between The Society's book and Scientific Creationism [Henry Morris, Institute for Creation Research] is worthy of criticism. As noted above we find that quotations from scholars in the various scientific disciplines are routinely taken out of context. The result is that scientists such as Eldredge, Gould, Jastrow, Johanson, Mayr, Ruse, Stanley, and Wald, to name a few, appear to the naive reader to reject all aspects of evolutionary theory. The pattern of treatment is like that of Morris; however, The Society goes one step further. It is not unusual for words or phrases to be omitted without the use of ellipses to indicate such changes."
In essence, Creation attempts to convert scientists' arguments about the pattern and process of evolutionary change into arguments about the very existence of change. Many other Watchtower publications are equally deficient in adherence to the facts or to the intent of the author they are quoting. Interestingly, the 1967 book Did Man Get Here By Evolution Or By Creation? distorted scientists' comments much less than does the Creation book. It is sad that the older book's higher standards have not been followed.
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*Creation/Evolution, vol. 12, No. 1, p. 30, 33, National Center for Science Education, Berkeley, California, Summer, 1992.
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My First "Publication Free" Study...
by HeyThere inwas not so publication free.
do witnesses not know how to talk about the bible without a wt pub to guide them?.
fist, she tried to get me to start once again in the bible teach book as if i had never said i didnt want to study from the pubs, so i reminded her.
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AnnOMaly
The 'blood' issue is one of the very first things that got me thinking. The long medical directive which asked for us to choose options - no blood products of any description/some (permitted) blood fractions/all (permitted) blood fractions/own blood (as long as the circulation isn't broken) - was really confusing to me. On what SCRIPTURAL basis should I choose one option over another? There wasn't one, and the WT publications weren't really helping.
So I thought I would start from scratch: prayerfully read all the Bible verses relating to blood in their contexts, and discern the original intent of any mandate and what it actually involved. The first pattern I saw was that it always had to do with killing an animal and eating it or sacrificing it to God, and the first conclusion I came to was that the WT's ban on autologous use of blood didn't make sense at all - why should any blood separated from my body not be reused but 'poured out on the ground'? - I've not died, it was my blood, it was being used for my body, not to eat but in the way that God originally intended it!
That first conclusion eventually led to a few more conlusions about how nonsensical the WT's theological stance on blood transfusions is. I also started investigating and rethinking other WT doctrines too.
So, HeyThere, you keep plugging away with your JW friend and your reasoning from the Bible alone. You don't know what seeds you plant or where it may lead.
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For those who feel that their life has been stolen
by stillin inyou maintained a level of personal decency and integrity that you almost certainly would not have had if you had chosen another direction.. sure, you would have had some very "colorful" friends and experiences if you had gone another way, but you still chose the more "edgy" people in the congregation as your friends and you still enjoyed yourself, even if there were a lot of phony constraints.. you looked for ways to be of value to others.
don't stop doing that!.
you kept the darker side of your personality in check.
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AnnOMaly
Our life is not stolen if we're still alive and in reasonable health. Yes, we may have made poor choices in the past (for the best of reasons we thought at the time) or had poor choices inflicted on us, and we're now living with the consequences and have not lived to our full potential, BUT every day is a new opportunity to salvage what we can or even make little steps to at least partly reverse those consequences.
The JW experience should be seen IMHO as a learning curve containing a mix of positive and negative experiences that can help us live more fulfilling lives NOW.
But that's me. Others' experiences with the Org. have been far more damaging to their lives and, understandably, they can't be as charitable.
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Oops! I think my numbers up!
by Oneoutallout inhad a call from an elder a few weeks ago, asking if he could visit.
managed to get away with saying thanks but no thanks.
had another one tonight.
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AnnOMaly
Yikes! You're toast. Still, if it's no big deal, hey ho indeed
And what Kate said.