Posts by thebeliever

46

If Women Ruled the World

by iiz2cool in

jw
friends

these were just emailed to me.

enjoy!

walter.

One additional comment on the toilet seat issue..... after living in new york for 10 years, public toilets, house parties, using a strangers bathroom... i sometimes find myself squatting over the seat, even at home...

Also, I read in the NY Post an article about how some British academic has a book out called "Adam's curse" in which he explains his theory that the Y chromosome (the one that makes men) is going to become exstinct. The Y does not have a twin the way an X does and so cannot repair itself or weed out the mutations in the same way... he states the fact that 7% of men are sterile as proof that this is happening... fascinating...

He contends that in 125,000 years only 1% of men will be fertile. Is this why men are so hell-bent on controlling the world and destroying our natural resources? Are they sore losers? It's really a shame in this day and age, men and women are still not treated equally, just because their strengths are different.

One cannot deny the need for the feminine energy and by suppressing it, by treating women as an underclass, when they are highly intelligent, naturally intuitive, nurtures and healers... one only makes women stronger.

I personally love men. love them, love them, love them... the jokes are funny, certainly sterotypical, and so i still love men, love them, love them, love them. I'll take Colin Farrel or Blair Underwood for procreation, Ed Norton or Chris Rock for conversation and laugher (very important), Kobe for when I'm feeling like a bad girl (sorry, had to slip that in, and oops so did he - haha) one of several local fireman or construction workers for a variety of reasons, any good looking (sexy) musician can be my soul-mate ...my point? we need each other... men are good for more than just procreation - but damn if they can't get it together... what's up with you guys?

thebeliever

6

friends: i have a question....

by thebeliever in

jw
friends

since leaving the jw's, with what have you replaced your belief system?

meaning, since we know there is no armageddon, heaven, hell, etc... how do you now understand the world and your place in it?.

i personally believe in evolution, but that doesn't help with the matter of spirituality.

thebeliever

Since leaving the jw's, with what have you replaced your belief system? Meaning, since we know there is no armageddon, heaven, hell, etc... how do you now understand the world and your place in it?

I personally believe in evolution, but that doesn't help with the matter of spirituality. Sometimes, I'm very comfortable knowing that I don't know and that is part of our experience as humans, the letting go of the need to know, because inside of us, we all have the "intelligence of god"... meaning, we came from something.... and that means to me, we are god-body...

I recently talked to some kind, intelligent (or educated, I should say) people who don't believe in god, or who believe in god, but consider the personification of god to be part of christianity, it made me re-examine my thoughts on god, as I like to reexamine my thoughts on many things when am presented with new information. I had never really thought of it like that....

I lean toward jung's theory of archetypes (I like many of his theories)... that there are recurrent themes in our lives (mom, dad, warrior etc.) and by giving these archetypes power, and by living them, we in essence make them a god... i don't know, if i'm explaining that right. One should read it for themselves. Perhaps this is all an illusion... that even our suffering is an illusion as zen teaches.... (I believe this, in part too.) Which is why it's important to separate from our ego... like through meditation (which i don't always enjoy, but value).. our ego makes us feel separate from everything, like there is something in this life we must hold on to, when we can see all around us that everything is moving as even science has proven (the atom)... our personality is not our soul, it is not who we are.... it's merely who we pretend to be...

I aspire to be in a position where I can inspire people to not get caught up "the suffering" because by changeing a few thoughts, one can see their "suffering" in a new light and step back from it... Is suffering necessary to know joy? Perhaps... we cannot deny the need to balance the polarities of our existance, the yin and yang, male and female, but just hanging out in the "pain" is almost to no advantage... most people are so used to suffering, though... and some people merely strive for the distractions of this world and hold on to that, the way fanatics hold on to their relgion for a sense of security.

but I think this is changeing slowly... for example, more people than ever are no longer interested in organized religion and are seeing it for what it is... they may just be leading a sort of existential life, but are still good people... I think this evolution of sorts is absolutely amazing... think of times when man first started to question his existance (antiquity, then the middle ages, the renniscance, and the way it's progressed to our day)... so... any thoughts?

If this topic is inappropriate, I'd like to know....I apologize if I am offending people by bringing this up, but I'd like to know what other ex-jw's are thinking.... thx

thebeliever

35

Bjork, Tori Amos or Cher

by Brummie in

jw
friends

which one has more class?.

if you had to choose one, who would you see in concert?

me, bjork.

thebeliever

I love Bjork, for her originality and amazing voice.... that being said it's really hard to compare her to tori amos.

I love tori amos too, her album "From the Choir-girl Hotel" is absolute perfection.

"well I know, we're dying and there's no sign of a parachute.... in this chapel, little chapel of love can we get a little grace and some elegance.... if we scream in cathedrals, why can't that be beautiful, why does there gotta be a sac.. sac... sacrafice...."

or from Spark:

"if the divine master plan is perfection, maybe next I'll give Judas a try, trusting your soul to the ice-cream assassins, here , he-here, here.... you say you don't want it again and again but you don't don't really mean it... you say you don't want it, the circus we're in, but you don't, don't really mean it....You don't, don't really mean it....

How many fates turn around in the over-time, balarina's that have fins that you'll never find.... you thought that you were the bomb, yes well, so did I..... say you don't want it, say you don't want it, say you don't want it... again and again, but you don't, don't really mean it... say you don't want it, this circus we're in, but you don't, don't really mean it"

if only you could hear it, with the music and her vocal inflection...

I'm not going to comment on Cher, except to say that she is a great performer of superficial, commercial music...

44

to ex-jw's specifically: with what have you replaced your belief system..

by thebeliever in

jw
friends

how do you now understand the world... and your place in it?.

i personally believe in evolution... and also a "higher power"... it seems more and more people are drifting away from organized religion, but they are then left searching for meaning and purpose..... going to college/university and studying a normal curriculum, one is exposed to philosophy, the socrates and platos of history, who in many ways started widespread discussion on such topics as above.

some sort of philosophy has to be studied i believe, just so one can understand the history of man, from that point in time and how we came to christianity in the first place.. however, it is a very personal matter, as we must all find our own answers.. i believe it is natural for people to be drawn to ponderings of purpose and god, and there are many ways to seek connection to that souce.

thebeliever

i.e. how do you now understand the world... and your place in it?

I personally believe in evolution... and also a "higher power"... it seems more and more people are drifting away from organized religion, but they are then left searching for meaning and purpose....

going to college/university and studying a normal curriculum, one is exposed to philosophy, the socrates and platos of history, who in many ways started widespread discussion on such topics as above. Some sort of philosophy has to be studied I believe, just so one can understand the history of man, from that point in time and how we came to Christianity in the first place.

However, it is a very personal matter, as we must all find our own answers.

I believe it is natural for people to be drawn to ponderings of purpose and god, and there are many ways to seek connection to that souce. But upon achieving a connection, one must still deal with day to day struggles and routine, or the state of the world.

I would like to inspire people to think about their level of awareness and consciousness. Mainly, because people who are ignorant to their spiritual selves tend to cause the most damage to other people and our planet. The way things are continuing man will one day indeed destroy the earth and that saddens me. It saddens me greatly that life and our planet are treated so callously. That their are people who were taught to think about "power" the way we were taught to think about "serving Jah". So their whole life is centered around building and maintaining their power (think governments, large corporations, monopolies) at any expense to our environment and populace(deforestization, endangered species, oil spills in the oceans, dumping garbage, waste, toxic chemicals, the dying barrier reef, polluted air, depleted ozone, mutating bacterias, man-made diseases, not finding a cure for aids (and other ills) because the drugs one takes to suppress it is such big business, children starving, people starving...)

If your beliefs lean more towards zen, then you'll see the troubles with the world and people as part of the balance of yin and yang. That we must know the evil, to understand the good. We must feel the pain to know the love. But why if god is love? Or is the belief that god should intereven or that the higher power is really that personified part of the disillusionment of religion. That god is there, but not going to get involved? That god is just energy, and we were not made in "his" image. Is this all just an illusion. Suffering only exists in the mind

Would like to hear what you think.

I haven't seen the second Matrix movie yet, I own the first one... do you think that'll help me, lol (smile)

thebeliever

21

Why I believe my baptism was not valid. (welcome comments)

by thebeliever in

when i was 11 or 12, my best friend (who's father was also an elder) suggested i get some of my mom's cigarettes for us to smoke.

sounded like a good idea, so i did and we tried it.

i thought it was horrible, but she had done it before and whatever.

thebeliever

Thanks for replying steve, i really appreciate it. I no longer want to be in the jw's but i miss my brother and wish to open his eyes.

54

Newbie Introduction-or-How to De-Program Yourself in 6,456,129 Easy Steps

by 2escaped lifers in

jw
friends

my wife and i are new to this forum, and really, we're now new to life as well.

or rather, life is new to us, normal life that is.

i don't want to turn this into a novel (at least, not yet).

thebeliever

Hello Brandon and Stephanie and welcome!

I totally relate to your experience, and am so glad you're out. I hope my brother and his wife will choose a similar course as they are still in.

I have recently freed myself fully, from the mental/emotional hold they had on me, even though I was disfellowshipped years ago.

I would love to meet you guys some time. It would make for interesting conversations to talk about those feelings of really seeing the world for the first time. So many things seem brand new. There are so many things to think about and perceive with your new sight! For example, I was looking at pictures of the universe... I don't know the website, but search on hubble telescope and for the first time really thought about if there was life on other planets.

We were taught that life is linear, god created everything and that only we exist in the entire universe, but now thinking logically about it, that just doesn't make sense...

Anyway, welcome... the fun is only beginning!!! the world is truly a beautiful place filled with many wonderful people.

Am looking forward to your "book"!

thebeliever

21

Why I believe my baptism was not valid. (welcome comments)

by thebeliever in

when i was 11 or 12, my best friend (who's father was also an elder) suggested i get some of my mom's cigarettes for us to smoke.

sounded like a good idea, so i did and we tried it.

i thought it was horrible, but she had done it before and whatever.

thebeliever

When I was 11 or 12, my best friend (who's father was also an elder) suggested I get some of my mom's cigarettes for us to smoke. Sounded like a good idea, so I did and we tried it. I thought it was horrible, but she had done it before and whatever. A couple of times she skipped class at her school and came to mine to see me... we hung out with some "worldly" boys from my school and kissed a little bit... no big deal. However... since I had become very conscious of not doing things that made Jehovah unhappy and since I told my dad "everything". I told him about it.

He handled it calmly, but told me that he was going to have to call her parents and meet with a judicial committee because we were something called "approved associates" - yet, NONE OF US KNEW THIS. (my brother who tried a cig. with us found out he was one too.) I was shocked to say the least. And I thought it would just be between me and my dad.

But the next week there we sat, my dad (elder), her with her parents (another elder), and the commitee (3 other elders) to discuss what happened and what led up to these things happening. It was very nerve racking, we were all sort of scared and felt really bad... but imagine my disbelief, when she looked me in my face and said, " I never did that. Why are you saying this about me? I never skipped school. i never kissed anybody." (I just want to interject, that this poor girl was adopted by these witnesses, and they told her her mother had been a prostitue. I personally believe this elder might have sexually abused this girl. He once made her pull down her pants and spanked her bare bottom when she was 13. She was extremely promiscuous, did indeed live a double life, was eventually found out. Had two kids by the time she was 18, which she abandoned and the same couple now raise. Last I heard, she joined some gang in Detroit.)

But back to the story.... Needless to say, her parents believed her, my dad believed me and a horrendous rift was caused between our families that would never be repaired. There were other repercussions now that certain people thought I was a liar, a bad seed, and other witness youths thought I was a rat, so I was somewhat alienated even within the congregation.

But what did come out of this meeting was realizing that we were this really special, fun thing called "approved associates" because we were children of elders (this is like some sort of pre-baptism type dedication, one makes until they're "old enough" to get baptized, (i believe the society has now discontinued this practice) and since we were children of elders of course we had to set an example that was above reproach and our parents thought with all the indoctrination we had been given (we would hardly be able to think for ourselves.).and to some extent they were right. What the judicial committe did to us, since my brother corraborated that we all did indeed "inhate" was removed our privileges. We could not comment at meetings, participate in the theocratic service school and lead a prayer at a bible study or something else, I don't remember. (Isn't this type of "punishment" given to those baptized?)

I think shortly after that is when I began cutting myself. I would unscrew the flaps on my dad's razor, take the blade out, run my wrist under cold water and hav at it. It made me feel better, but I also felt guilty and always asked for Jehovah to help me.

When I turned 15 and was deemed old enough, I went ahead, walked the plank and let them dunk me. I would have done it sooner, but dad felt 12 was too young to get baptized... but not too young to unknowingly be an approved associate. It's crazy. I mean, it was as if I was already baptized. They even removed my privleges!

Therefore, i feel that my baptism wasn't valid, because it was done in the light of this approved associate business, that I was given no choice in. Make sense?

I therefore also feel my disfellowshipping is not valid. Comments? Do I have a legal case in there somewhere?

thebeliever

8

Need some suggestions.... thx

by thebeliever in

jw
friends

i am disfellowshipped and recently went to the kh.

i have an older brother (32 yr) who i was very close with who desperately wants me to get reinstated.

or that i can't babysit your child.

thebeliever

Thank you for the info. as well as some really good suggestions. I have decided to take it slow with him and I told him tonight was not a good night, (because I just couldn't pull it together.... It makes me so sad inside, and angry and I need to talk to him when I'm not "angry".

to six: Interestingly enough, I don't feel that my baptism is valid and I'll tell you why....

When I was 11 or 12, my best friend (who's father was also an elder) suggested I get some of my mom's cigarettes for us to smoke. Sounded like a good idea, so I did and we tried it. I thought it was horrible, but she had done it before and whatever. A couple of times she skipped class at her school and came to mine to see me... we hung out with some "worldly" boys from my school and kissed a little bit... no big deal. However... since I had become very conscious of not doing things that made Jehovah unhappy and since I told my dad "everything". I told him about it.

He handled it calmly, but told me that he was going to have to call her parents and meet with a judicial committee because we were something called "approved associates" - yet, NONE OF US KNEW THIS. (my brother who tried a cig. with us found out he was one too.) I was shocked to say the least. And I thought it would just be between me and my dad.

But the next week there we sat, my dad (elder), her with her parents (another elder), and the commitee (3 other elders) to discuss what happened and what led up these things happening. It was very nerve racking, we were all sort of scared and felt really bad... but imagine my disbelief, when she looked me in my face and said, " I never did that. Why are you saying this about me? I never skipped school. i never kissed anybody." (I just want to interject, that this poor girl was adopted by these witnesses, and they told her her mother had been a prostitue. I personally believe this elder might have sexually abused this girl. He once made her pull down her pants and spanked her bare bottom when she was 13. She was extremely promiscuous, did indeed live a double life, was eventually found out. Had two kids by the time she was 18, which she abandoned and the same couple now raise.)

But back to the story.... Needless to say, her parents believed her, my dad believed me and a horrendous rift was caused between our families that would never be repaired. There were other repercussions now that certain people thought I was a liar, a bad seed, and other witness youths thought I was a rat, so I was somewhat alienated even within the congregation.

But what did come out of this meeting was realizing that we were this really special, fun thing called "approved associates" because we were children of elders (this is like some sort of pre-baptism type dedication, one makes until they're "old enough" to get baptized, (i believe the society has now discontinued this practice) and since we were children of elders of course we had to set an example that was above reproach and our parents thought with all the indoctrination we had been given (we would hardly be able to think for ourselves.).and to some extent they were right. What the judicial committe did to us, since my brother corraborated that we all did indeed "inhate" was removed our privileges. We could not comment at meetings, participate in the theocratic service school and lead a prayer at a bible study or something else, I don't remember.

I think shortly after that is when I began cutting myself. I would unscrew the flaps on my dad's razor, take the blade out, run my wrist under cold water and hav at it.

When I turned 15 and was deemed old enough, I went ahead, just walked the plank and let them dunk me. I would have done it sooner, but dad felt 12 was too young to get baptized... but not too young to unknowingly be an approved associate. It's crazy. I mean, it was as if i had already been baptized. They even removed our privleges!

Therefore, i feel that my baptism wasn't valid, because it was done in the light of this approved associate business, that I was given no choice in. Make sense?

I therefore also feel my disfellowshipping is not valid. Comments?

73

if you still believe in the bible ... please tell me why

by frenchbabyface in

why i can't anymore : sorry for my poor english, but i've tried hard !!

since the beginning of the time, till the 19th century and more, most of stories and songs for kids, was made to scary them with a moral at the end.

to me, the bible is one of kind of that type of book (for children we are inside).

thebeliever

babyface,

I also agree that this particulare religion misses the whole point, of truly taking care of "others" and loving "others" by being active citizens, not active in the preaching work. (Because how many are truly active, really? come on?)

I mean, it's crazy! They hide behind their belief that god's kingdom is going to solve everything. What a force 6 million people who would be to protest deforestization, lobby for the environment - especially since most are american citizens - the power of voting.

If only they used some of that energy, to learn how to communicate, learn about sociology, so they would be better informed on how to help people emotionally with life issues such as : abuse, depression, etc... instead of referring people to a watchtower or awake article - that only ever goes so far as to quote scriptures about god's kingdom.

I could go on, but we're mostly in agreement here... even one voice can be very powerful. loved your post....

73

if you still believe in the bible ... please tell me why

by frenchbabyface in

why i can't anymore : sorry for my poor english, but i've tried hard !!

since the beginning of the time, till the 19th century and more, most of stories and songs for kids, was made to scary them with a moral at the end.

to me, the bible is one of kind of that type of book (for children we are inside).

thebeliever

that was excellent!

I thoroughly enjoyed that. Very well put, I followed you just fine.

I especially like your rational on Job's being tested... just a trial-run on the potential faith of a human, before he sends his "son" down. Funny!

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