CruithneLaLuna

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Posts by CruithneLaLuna

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  9

  Who taught Jesus as a Boy?

  by UpAndAtom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  was it the essenes?

  edgar cayce says they were, but is there anything else besides edgar to back this up?

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  CruithneLaLuna

  Interesting that you bring that into the discussion, Penwell. I've read the whole story from which you quote a couple of paragraphs, and intend one day soon to read the entire book by Acharya S. Being at this point in my life a non-Christian, I have nothing to fear from reading material that challenges the historical existence of Jesus. Besides Acharya's book, there is The Jesus Puzzle http://jesuspuzzle.com and The Bible Fraud http://biblefraud.com , which I anticpate all being interesting and possibly enlightening in some respects.

  I suppose, to be fair, one should interleave reading several books of these sort with reading scholarly books by Christian authors, that try to prove that Jesus did exist, the gospels and their writers were honest, etc.

  A problem I see with reading this sort of stuff is that in doing so, we aren't really much better off than we were reading WTS publications. We're doing something like "tertiary" research, as opposed to secondary, or primary (which unless someone is paying one to do it, or one is independently wealthy and has pratically unlimited money and time, one is not likely to do). The author says that some other author says so-and-so, and without doing additional reading and analysis, you don't know how much of what that other author says is based on fact, and how much on bias.

  Cruithne, who wishes he had time in this life to be a REAL scholar.
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  5

  Identifying with a religious group - what does it mean to you?

  by CruithneLaLuna in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  directed to those who since leaving the dubs have attached themselves (strongly or loosely) to another religious or spiritual group: how would you describe the group, your relationship to it, and why it appeals to you?

  if you want to mention the group's name, that's okay, but one thing i have noticed is that there is a vast difference in implications and ramifications between saying "i am one of jehovah's witnesses" and saying "i am a _____" - almost anything else.

  exactly what identifying with the group means is at least as diverse as the groups themselves, or perhaps as diverse as the individuals who so identify.. i am personally acquainted with ex-jws who "are" roman catholic, protestant, what i call in a rather generic sense "orthodox christian," unitarian-universalist, buddhist, hindu, and a perhaps surprising (seemingly disproportionate?

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  CruithneLaLuna

  To the last 10 people who started a topic about not fitting in - is this an example of what you were talking about?
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  5

  Identifying with a religious group - what does it mean to you?

  by CruithneLaLuna in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  directed to those who since leaving the dubs have attached themselves (strongly or loosely) to another religious or spiritual group: how would you describe the group, your relationship to it, and why it appeals to you?

  if you want to mention the group's name, that's okay, but one thing i have noticed is that there is a vast difference in implications and ramifications between saying "i am one of jehovah's witnesses" and saying "i am a _____" - almost anything else.

  exactly what identifying with the group means is at least as diverse as the groups themselves, or perhaps as diverse as the individuals who so identify.. i am personally acquainted with ex-jws who "are" roman catholic, protestant, what i call in a rather generic sense "orthodox christian," unitarian-universalist, buddhist, hindu, and a perhaps surprising (seemingly disproportionate?

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  CruithneLaLuna

  Directed to those who since leaving the Dubs have attached themselves (strongly or loosely) to another religious or spiritual group: How would you describe the group, your relationship to it, and why it appeals to you? If you want to mention the group's name, that's okay, but one thing I have noticed is that there is a vast difference in implications and ramifications between saying "I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses" and saying "I am a _____" - almost anything else. Exactly what identifying with the group means is at least as diverse as the groups themselves, or perhaps as diverse as the individuals who so identify.

  I am personally acquainted with ex-JWs who "are" Roman Catholic, Protestant, what I call in a rather generic sense "orthodox Christian," Unitarian-Universalist, Buddhist, Hindu, and a perhaps surprising (seemingly disproportionate?) number of Neo-Pagans. I'd like a better understanding, based on a sample from this forum, of the spectrum of possibilities - again, not so much in terms of beliefs and practices, but as to one's sense of identification with the group.

  Cruithne
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  13

  What do you think is the best way to deal with karma?

  by CruithneLaLuna in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  oh, i am confused.

  someone has given me a little taste of my own medicine, and i don't like it.. here we are, very close to eleven years later to the day.

  does anyone know of some astrological or other synchronistic significance of a period of eleven years?.

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  CruithneLaLuna

  Thanks for all of your comments, ranging from serious to facetious (or facetious to serious).

  The situation has to do with dumping and being dumped, as a lover and as a friend. This time, I am the dumpee. It is quite interesting how in a very short length of time, the story one hears from the other party can go from wanting to spend the rest of our lives together, to essentially "there is no room for you in my life." When this person wanted me, or thought she did, she conveyed the best love lines and sweet nothings that anyone has ever offered me. What I have experienced, therefore, has been something like the Amazon River being diverted into a new channel, with my little hamlet on the banks left high and dry. Where did my fishing industry go?

  What I am having the most trouble with is not being let go as a lover, but being shut off and shut out completely. This person dripped and dripped until I decided I liked the water, then turned on the fire hydrant for a while (expressing intent never to turn it off), and then suddenly spun the valve completely shut. Actually, it was in two stages: 1. "Here are the reasons why we can't be lovers any longer, but we can try being best friends again (as we were previously);" then 2. (a week or so later) "Here are the reasons why we can't have an active friendship any longer." Of course, the other party explains kindly why all of this change is necessary, in order for her needs, wants, whims, and general agenda in life to be fulfilled.

  I did something similar to someone else, feeling it was necessary, almost exactly eleven years ago.

  Last night, I indulged in a prayer ritual, and while I was in Sacred Space, I could feel nothing negative whatsoever toward my former lover. I was able only to bless her and wish her well, to hope and pray for her happiness and fulfillment. Although my ego is taunting me, calilng me a weakling, wimp, etc. - evidently expecting me to react angrily to being hurt - I think the ego is just being its bad little self, and while I can let it throw its tantrums internally, I don't have to manifest them externally. Maybe the ego can learn the lesson that all of that ranting and thrashing doesn't acomplish anything good for anyone.

  Regarding karma, I don't know if I believe in it exactly as propounded by a given religion or philosophy, but it is interesting how often life serves as our teacher. Whether it is God, spirit guides, our own subconscious, or "chance" that determines that we need to learn from a taste of our own medicine, sometimes things do work to that effect, almost uncannily (as they say).

  Cruithne
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  13

  What do you think is the best way to deal with karma?

  by CruithneLaLuna in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  oh, i am confused.

  someone has given me a little taste of my own medicine, and i don't like it.. here we are, very close to eleven years later to the day.

  does anyone know of some astrological or other synchronistic significance of a period of eleven years?.

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  CruithneLaLuna

  Oh, I am confused. Someone has given me a little taste of my own medicine, and I don't like it.

  Here we are, very close to eleven years later to the day. Does anyone know of some astrological or other synchronistic significance of a period of eleven years?

  I am loathe to give details, and after trying to explain why I realize that I can't.

  Anyway, based on what little I am able to reveal, "in this sort of situation" do you think I should thank this person who has treated me in a manner that almost anyone would consider shoddy (let's just say that I wouldn't expect people to volunteer for such treatment, and most wouldn't accept it in exchange for a large sum of money) ... as I was saying, should I thank this person for being my teacher, and bless the person's course in life (send good wishes and "positive energy"), or find someone whose shoulder I can cry on, and not gossip but ... you know, talk about what happened and how I feel, etc.

  It is hard to go looking for a friend when you have been seriously let down by someone whom you counted one and expected to be a faithful friend.

  Doing mental / emotional spirals (alternately clockwise and counter-clockwise) and looking for an appropriate ritual,

  Cruithne/Enhtiurc
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  27

  Suppose You Said "I Forgive the Watchtower"?

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  you may be confronted with relatives and witness friends who annoy you, with self-righteous comments about "coming back.

  to the 'truth' and other judgemental urgings.. suppose you replied "i forgive the watchtower society for the terrible things they've done, i need to do that so i can progess as a. spiritual person".. such a response might be very disarming - and difficult to counter.. witnesses generally reject the notion that the watchtower can ever do anything wrong - rationalizing that any cruelties they.

  inflict are somehow part of a greater divine purpose.

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  CruithneLaLuna

  Forgiveness is an interesting subject. You'd think it would be very simple, but it is not. I do think that most people, most of the time, are doing what they believe to be right and/or necessary. That does not mean that consequences do not accure to them and to others because of their acts; it does not justify the acts. It does not make all affronts and injuries easily forgiveable.

  I agree with Amazing that the WTS and Jehovah's Witnesses corporately should be held accountable to society, and that justice should be done by exacting and extracting from them appropriate recompense, to the extent possible - or at least, that I would feel a sense of satisfaction in seeing that happen. On the other hand (there's always a "but"), in order for this to happen, wouldn't it be necessary for government to become much more meddlesome in the area of religion, and would that really be a good thing? The consensus of our society currently seems to be that, except in fairly extreme cases, the damage and threat to individual liberty that comes from government intervention in the religious arena is too great a price to pay for the rectifications and restitutions that we (individuals, and groups with common concerns, such as "ex-JWs") might like to see ordered and enforced.

  Perhaps the best way to deal with the WTS is to do one's part in the letting the truth be known, by telling our stories and exposing them for what they are. This is not the easiest or quickest, and probably not the most personally satisfying, of solutions, but in the long run it may be the one that is least likely to involve a 'cure that is worse than the disease.' Education is a potent tool, generally underappreciated and underused.

  Cruithne/Enhtiurc
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  27

  This prisoner is a hero!!!

  by donkey in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  CruithneLaLuna

  While as an individual I strive to be non-judgmental, and yes that includes every person and every action that people commit, I recognize the right of individuals to protect themselves and their families, and the right of society that extends beyond the family to protect itself. While I regret that the only solution to some problems still seems to lie in violence, I am not motivated by a sense that vengeance is in any way appropriate. I find it disturbing that so many people can be aroused to such anger and hate. Those of you who are so glad that this man died, and perhaps take pleasure in picturing and even vicariously participating in his murder, if your child did something completely unacceptable, would you punish him or her with the same kind of anger? If that idea seems repulsive to you, as I hope it does, recall that each of us is someone's child; most religions consider us all children of the Divine.

  Maybe the death penalty is the best that society can do to mitigate some types of crimes, but I would ike to think that the human race is in the process of evolving beyond that; or that at east we have that potential.

  Cruithne/Enhtiurc
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  42

  Is there one thing that convinces you that the JW's are wrong ???

  by run dont walk in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  doctrines, people, elders, family, beliefs, is there a certain thing that convinces you they are wrong ???.

  had a discussion with my mom the other day and she asked "how can you be so sure they are wrong ?".

  i picked two topics that i had not talked to her about ( already said the pedophile, un, generation stuff.).

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  CruithneLaLuna

  There is always the straw that breaks the camel's back. I will tell of one point, certainly not the only one, but the realization hit me at the right time and tipped the balance, enabling me to shake off the Society's mind-control enough to take a more objective view, and quickly decide to leave the organization.

  Early in my career as a "Bible student" of the Witnesses, the Truth book appeared. One of the things said in that book is something to the effect that if two statements are made that contradict each other, they cannot both be true. The idea seemed to be that one would be true and the other false, or both would be false. To a lot of peole, this seems like good common sense. Unfortunately, it is very simplistic. It is also dualistic, and I have learned to question dualism (and to a large extent, reject it).

  The apple is red, the apple is green. While it may be predominantly red, it may also be green. One statement is not 100% true; the other, "contradictory" one, is not 100% false. The reasoning purveyed by the JWs on the nature of truth may or amy not be harmonious with the Bible, but it is certainly Aristotleian. Yes, old Aristotle todl us that the world is true/false, good/evil, black/white, and people were so taken with dualism (particularly Aristotle's version of it) that our culture is still suffering severe pains today as a result.

  This idea may seem abstract, but the book that opened my eyes about it (about mathematics, computer science, philsophy, and the way the world really works) was so persuasive and incisive that it really shook me, and woke me up.

  Cruithne
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  1

  witness' from sacramento where are you

  by the mole in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  any jw's from sacto out there?

  is there a support group for those in sacramento for those who disagree with the org.

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  CruithneLaLuna

  Mole,

  I will support you, if you want to talk with me. I live in Sac. Perhaps we could get together sometime.

  Cruithne
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  11

  The Enormity of It All

  by Swan in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  occasionally the enormity of it all just comes flooding back in on me.

  at times it just seems so overwhelming.

  at times it seems so incredibly fantastic so as to be unbelievable.

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  CruithneLaLuna

  My children (still teenagers, living with their mother and their elder stepfather) have chosen to have nothing to do with me, and no longer communicate with me; but I remember trying to tell them, not that their "Truth" was a big lie, but that as one who had deliberately turned my back on the religion and walked away, I was learning that the impression that the Society gives JWs about many supposedy "bad" things are biased and skewed. That didn't go over very well, of course.

  Many here would doubtless say that I have taken this to extremes, athough I do not engage in anti-social behavior, or promote anything that I consider likely to harm anyone. In fact, I consider that everything that was good about me that harmonized with Dubism has been strengthened and refined since I left the org; and gratitude is due for release from senseless struggles with one's own humanity, that one cannot truly win. (Try to kill nature, and your own death is the most likely result. This is true on so many levels.)

  I don't mean to write in riddles, but I agree "it's enormous," and therefore I don't plan to go into detail here and now.

  Cruithne/Enhtiurc