i'm officially single.
i don't know how to feel exactly.
thank you to everyone who has been so sweet and kind and supportive of me, you have no idea how much it's meant to me.
I misspelt your ID on purpose, because "Belle" means beautiful. I just now saw this thread. Sorry to hear about the pain involved in your breakup, but I can only hope that it's for the best. Let me know if I can do anything at all, beyond sending you cyber-hugs and encouragement.
All Is Well - truly.
Cruithne
washington (reuters) - when jerry wilmouth moved to galesburg, illinois, five years ago, everyone told him to get a job at maytag corp.'s (nyse:myg - news) refrigerator plant.
maytag paid the best, they said, and the 50-year-old factory was the lifeblood of the city.
now, wilmouth and 379 others are spending their first week of life after maytag -- the first of 1,600 workers to be laid off between now and the end of 2004, when the plant closes for good and maytag moves the work to mexico.
The world is changing, and why should we expect all of the changes to be in our favor?
I feel compelled to observe that capitalism is based on greed, and competition. This poses a real problem, because even if Company X is managed by "enlightened" and "ethical" individuals, in order to stay in business, if other companies in the same industry are "offshoring" their businesses to reduce costs, Company X had better follow suit.
One might ask, what is the most practical way to deal with this problem? For IT workers, it has been suggested "aim higher." In other words, don't seek to be a lowly programmer; seek rather to become a software engineer or to fill a management position. When it becomes harder to get and keep a good job with a bachelor's degree, maybe it's time to think about getting a master's degree also. (That is the track I am planning to take.)
I think a longer-term solution will be to work on empowering the people, the "little guy" in Mexico, India or Venezuela (or wherever) - *your competition* - to fight for better wages, and in general a higher living standard. The ideal solution would help everyone, and not trample anyone's interests for the sake of someone else's - the "us vs. them" syndrome. If humanity is to progress and evolve and the world get better, we have to stop fighting one another, and competing in a way that causes harm. (That philosophy calls capitalism as generally practiced into question, but I'm not going there in this post.)
I don't know how to reach over into a foreign country, with its own economic problems and a different culture, and make things better for the workers there. I am however, learning a bit about what has helped American workers in the past, and is helping them now. We are up against a system run by the rich, who in practice don't care about the poor and the middle-class (still the poor, relative to them), and will and do trample us in order to protect and further their own interests. Our government is fully complicitous in this. If things are to improve, we "little people" must organize for change. Even Bill Gates wouldn't have the clout to do it alone (and if you are Gates, or become someone like him, then the system automatically puts you on the opposing side).
Cruithne
well im back from my " relaxing trip to the coast "........ and apparently wile i was gone my jw father in law stepped up his plan for total jw world domination .
he has now officially threatened me with dfing .
and informed my wife that by my continued association with a disassociated person i am placing myself in jeopardy of changing my inactive status into a situation that needs to be handled in a judicial manner.
The JWs will see that you lose in the process, but it's personal and spiritual freedom and growth that count. I have lost (for the time being, at least) all contact with my family, i.e. my two children - no one else really counts as family, that being a long story in itself, but beside the point - due to leaving "the truth" and continuing my spiritual odyssey in other realms. Leave that "island" and you are damned by its inhabitants, but perhaps the place they are inhabiting is really the Isle of the Damned.
I like that, actually. "The Isle of the Damned...."
Anyway, it's pretty "easy" to become un-damned. Just make, and follow through on, the decision to leave.
Cruithne
We don't even know each other (yet), but your appeal arouses the protective, tender aspects of my personality, and I too want to send you a cyber-hug. (((((( Dimples )))))) Feel better, you!
Cruithne
at this point in my life i don't think i could trust any religious group.
i don't even feel the need to be a part of anything like that right now, and maybe never will.. but i know of some who have joined other churches/groups since leaving the borg.. why do some join another religion and why won't some ever get involved again?.
what makes us so different?.
At first after I left the JWs, I spent some time reading and studying, completely on my own. I.e. I would borrow books from the library, or buy them if they could not be borrowed, and read them. I did not respond to any encouragements to form a relationship with the authors or purveyors of the books, or to get involved with a teaching program.
Since many of the JWs' criticisms of other religions "hit home" for me, i.e. I felt they had considerable validity, and I had become a JW because I felt they were different, i.e. not corrupt as I saw religion in general to be, after I left the Witnesses it seemed there was nowhere else to go. Indeed, even now as I look at the histories of all reliions, i.e. people who have professed religious and spiritual beliefs of all stripes, I see much that I find disturbing, and that I wish to try to avoid being a part of, or found supporting in any way.
However, in my studies I drifted toward the esoteric, which isn't too surprising since I had begun to be interested in such things before I became a JW. By "esoteric" I mean pretty much everything that the JWs classify as "spiritism."
Eventually, I fell in with a friend who convinced me to try attending her spiritual groups, which consisted of an interfaith community church, a Spiritualist church, and an interfaith spiritual networking group (mettings held in someone's home, like a "book study" only using different books, and more free-wheeling and participatory). I found all three interesting, the two interfaith groups particularly so. These were people whose approaches to spirituality seemed generally harmonious with my own. (I found that I was neither repelled by nor attracted to Spiritualism.)
After a short time, my circumstances changed, and I was forced to move. Around this time, someone posted a link to the beliefnet.com spirituality quiz, that's designed to help one identify which religious groups are most harmonious with one's own beliefs. Interestingly, the "beliefs" (concepts that I considered most likely to be true, and/or most conducive to my spiritual growth) that I had developed by this time, to my surprise, aligned most closely with those of the neo-Pagan Druids. I then followed another link that was offered by an acquaintance, which enabled me to look up and contact the nearest Druid Grove ("church"), with which I have been associated ever since.
I don't consider myself having "joined another religion." Initiation as a Druid has been offered; I am not sure I am ready to accept it. Of course, Druids can become non-Druids if they wish, with no particular onus attached. I have detected no controllingness related to the group with which I am affiliated. It is also quite possible (and common) to be Druid and something else. There are people who consider themselves Christian Druids, and others who borrow eclectically from other traditions besides Druidry to formulate their own personal spiritual path. I feel that I fall into the last category.
Cruithne
how many rotten governing body members gave horrendous talks and got a standing ovation?
how many of them just walked on stage to an automatic round of applause?
...notice the words from the 1951 watchtower on page 392----"a mild yet subtle form of idolatry that must be guarded against is the practice some make of applauding excessively when their favorite speaker or some prominent individual among the lord's people addresses an assembly.the mere stepping og this individual upon the platform sometimes brings a round of applause.
During the "remaining months of the Old System," back in 1974, we had a C.O. who had some definite verbal gifts. He was obviously intelligent and learned, and had an awe-inspiring vocabulary (including some personally-coined words that actually made sense, if one took the time to puzzle out their etymologies). He was a very dynamic, one might even say "fiery," speaker, and had been a professional singer - sometimes he could be heard (and appreciated) over the rest of the crowd at Circuit Assemblies. Everyone loved to listen to this man talk. It was like being subjected to a mild form of hypnosis, in a way. He got "excessive applause," not only AFTER his talks, but he started getting extensive applause when he walked onto the stage, before beginning to speak! It was extremely clear that appreciation was being expressed for his personal gifts as a communicator and entertainer, in addition to the material that he was presenting.
I do not recall anything negative being said, no "special needs" talks were given to my knowledge, but as soon as the creature-worship problem became obvious, he was replaced with a new C.O. whose manner was entirely different, and whose personal gifts were less outstandingly apparent. Problem solved.
I don't know whatever happened to Brother Object-of-Worship. I don't think he sought adulation, but he couldn't help being who he was. I really wonder whatever happened to him.
Cruithne
when i was still active, i asked an elder and his wife once about some of the society's policies on child abuse both emotional and physical.
now, this is way back in '93, way before silentlambs and all the media attention.
they both agreed the policies were backwards and should include more professional counseling.
I totally forgive you. That is, I forgive the elders who did take part in df'ing me when, according to JW rules, it was appropriate. One of them was also the person through whom I initially became interested in "the Truth." I also forgive ... whoever needs to be forgiven for doing what they believed was right. As you say, you thought you were doing God's will at the time. That doesn't make what you did right, or fix the problems your actions may have caused, but it does mitigate your own responsibility somewhat.
I got reinstated, and then walked away later and da'd myself - knowing that it would separate me from my children, not to mention all of my long-time friends. However, I would have compromised my integrity if I hadn't left, and if I had pretended to continue supporting the org in any way when I no longer agreed with it or saw it as a good thing. As to whether da'ing myself was necessary, I personally decided that it was. The JWs are so big on "taking a stand for the truth," if they had a smidgeon of humility they would realize that that can encompass (in a person's own mind and heart, at least, which they don't have to agree with) leaving as well as joining. Of course, they are closed to that viewpoint, but I felt it was necessary to present them with that challenge - especially my family and former friends. In effect, I said, "Yes! I am 'taking a stand for the truth' - by making it known that I have nothing to do with this religious organization and its activities, nor do I intend to, ever again."
Anyways, I understand how you feel, to an extent. There are things I did in the past that I still feel badly about,and probably always will. I can only hope that the people who were adversely affected by my mistakes made subsequent decisions that enabled them to overcome those effects. Who knows, maybe they became stronger / more effective / happier, in the long run. Perhaps paradoxically, suffering isn't always a bad thing. I think its long-term results depend on how one chooses to react to it.
Warm regards,
Cruithne
if god is all loving and forgiving why do "the religious establishments"try to convince us that if you do not conform or follow 'it' you will have a miserable life here on earth and then die,because you are different.. does religion work against everything it proposes to solve?why does religion make you feel bad?how can you feel worthy,when you are constantly fighting internal drives to be accepted by god and /or/religious establishments?.
i know when we talk about religious establishments we are not talking about god,its just that they say there is a connection between them and god and so you better toe the line of which ever religious establishment you belong to.can we really separate the two and go it alone?.
blueblades
I am tempted to leave the subject line standing alone, but I want to add one thing, to illsutrate / support / drive home my point.
I am dealing with a situation right now that entails a potential for / invitation to a high degree of stress, worry, anxiety. When I was a Christian (especially during my JW period of 30+ years), praying to "God" or Jesus or Jehovah would have NOT helped, and if anything would have made me feel more stressed. Yesterday and today, I did a couple of (highly improvised) ritual/prayer/meditation thingies that fixed me right up. To put it simply, I feel that my prayers ARE answered now, in a definite, immediate, positive sense. Whether miracles happen that make the problems go away immediately is not the point; the point is being able to cope successfully and BE HAPPY (not to mention functional and productive) no matter what is currently hitting the fan.
I have talked with others who have left Pagan groups that tried to be controlling and dogmatic - ANY form of spirituality can be perverted to such ends (even if it is not intrinsically that way) - but I stick to what simply offers tools for growth that have worked for others. I try them, and what works for me, I adopt and adapt. While I enjoy stimulating interaction with others whose inclinations and paradigms seem to be harmonious with mine, I do not accept dogma or control. Neither should you (unless you think you should...).
Cruithne, the eclectic Druid
when i was a jw i prayed regularly and often and i thanked jehovah in prayer again when events turned out favourably.
however, sometimes things worked out unfavourably for me or a member of my family but we never blamed jehovah.
having now been out of watchtower clutches for over seven months i began to realise that jehovah couldnt lose!
I still give thanks (thogh not to Jehovah, per se) when good things happen. And when "bad" things happen, they provide opportunities for growth that I probably wouldn't have encountered otherwise, so I give thanks for the superficially bad as well. "Bad" and "good" are dualistic perceptions - let me emphasize, PERCEPTIONS - nothing more.
This may sound very philsophical and abstract, and I will agree that some occurrences, that we apparently have no control over, are very painful. Yet, through loss and pain, and the questioning and searching that one does in order to cope with such things, I have found happiness - or something that far more closely resembles it than the states in which I spent my existence as a JW and before.
I can't apologize for finding life to be a "blast" - all of its experiences, in perspective, included.
Cruithne
okay, as most of you have been associated with the so-called "truth" at some point in your life, tell me if you have ever heard the phrase where "jehovah only draws people to him"(or something to that effect ).
i have an issue with this statement, among many other things, but i would just like to know other people's opinion on it.. okay, so we are suppose to dedicate our lives to him, yet we can only do that whole-heartedly if we are 'drawn' .
so what, if we aren't drawn we are just left for dead?
As I understood it, the idea is that the "drawing" is based on one's heart condition. One may feel drawn to a religion or philosophy based on its appeal to one's intellect, emotions, and moral/ethical sensibilities. Supposedly, if one is "honest-hearted," spritually "hungry," and "humble" enough to accept adjustments to his thinking based on Divine teaching from the Bible, then hearing the Truth causes a positive response, and a person is "drawn to Jehovah." (Were there 3 "H's," or 4? I feel as if I'm leaving something out.)
The above is, again, the way I understood things as a JW.
Cruithne
