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Maat13
JoinedPosts by Maat13
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35
TTATT in a can
by ILoveTTATT inso... i have been working on an excel spreadsheet that has "ttatt in a can"... i have it both in spanish and in english.
here's a preview:.
category / year1879188018901891name?bible studentsbible students "time of the end" starts in the year?17991799 "parousia" (presence)?18741874 jesus enthroned?18781878 end of the harvest?19141914 earthly resurrection?
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34
How did you find the truth about the truth (TTATT)
by Maat13 ini am sure there has been a post about this subject, however being a recent addition to the network i don't know how to do a search.
and i'm sure new folks have joined since then.
i am really curious of how others came to know ttatt.. for me is was a real bad experience with one elder after another.
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Maat13
I am sure there has been a post about this subject, however being a recent addition to the network I don't know how to do a search. And I'm sure new folks have joined since then. :-)
I am really curious of how others came to know TTATT.
For me is was a real bad experience with one elder after another. They unfortunately did a poor job of handling a matter within my household. It became obvious to me that these men were not appointed by Holy Spirit. So I started to question EVERYTHING that came from the platform. And well, here I am. Specifically for me it was the mediator issue. I couldnt understand why Christ was not the mediator, but these elders were. It all makes sense now.
Maat
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Doctrine and Understanding Are Two Different Things
by Maat13 inthe subject of this post is the response i got from my spouse when i questioned the material in the watchtower study article for last week, 'this generation'.
i would have thought that confusing material would have been enough to start a conversation about wt tactics, lies and control mechanisms.
it did not work.. it's going to be a long haul.... apparently, doctrine has not changed but us imperfect people, including the gb, are still trying to understand j's promise for an earthly paradise.. maat..
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Maat13
Designs,
So how many degrees do you figure the WTBT$ has? It would seem that all active JW's would have thier own understanding of cryptic doctrine.
Nonetheless, I'll need to use a more subtle approach with my spouse.
Maat
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51
"This Generation" at the meeting today
by Batman89 init was really quite amusing 2day at the meeting when we got to the "this generation will not pass away" subheading in the wt.
the conductor spent very little time on the section and the comments that were given didnt at all make sense really.
you can tell its not understood by the majority of the friendsand will go over there heads, i was trying not to laugh lol.
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Maat13
Oubliette,
I tried my best to be correct when quoting within someone else quotes...the double vs single quote thing probably confused some folks...my apologies..
I used a single quote ' ' to start and end the entire section that came from Franz's book. Within those single quotes I used ( ) to make small personal comments to show how Franz's message is connected to the material presented in the recent WT article. I also used " " where Franz quoted the WT. That closing single quote is hard to see, but it's there. Afterward I shared my thoughts, no quotes or parenthesis, but using " " to share WT thoughts.
The point I was trying to make was that Franz's material in essence matches your graph. It's is an awesome graph.
Franz knew that at some point in time, nearing 100 years since 1914, that a change would be necessary. A change that would extend "this generation" out at least another one hundred years. Since there were folks 'anointed' after 1992, the overlapping generation would include the grandkids and great grandkids who are alive at that time as well. They needed time, so they bought more time...as Franz predicted using an overlapping generation. That "first group" will be eliminated after much time has passed...given them more time...if the organization is still around. Once the lies start you gotta keep telling more to explain the previous.
I hope that is a slight improvement...
Maat
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2
Doctrine and Understanding Are Two Different Things
by Maat13 inthe subject of this post is the response i got from my spouse when i questioned the material in the watchtower study article for last week, 'this generation'.
i would have thought that confusing material would have been enough to start a conversation about wt tactics, lies and control mechanisms.
it did not work.. it's going to be a long haul.... apparently, doctrine has not changed but us imperfect people, including the gb, are still trying to understand j's promise for an earthly paradise.. maat..
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Maat13
The subject of this post is the response I got from my spouse when I questioned the material in the WatchTower study article for last week, 'this generation'. I would have thought that confusing material would have been enough to start a conversation about WT tactics, lies and control mechanisms. It did not work.
It's going to be a long haul...
Apparently, doctrine has not changed but us imperfect people, including the GB, are still trying to understand J's promise for an earthly paradise.
Maat.
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51
"This Generation" at the meeting today
by Batman89 init was really quite amusing 2day at the meeting when we got to the "this generation will not pass away" subheading in the wt.
the conductor spent very little time on the section and the comments that were given didnt at all make sense really.
you can tell its not understood by the majority of the friendsand will go over there heads, i was trying not to laugh lol.
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Maat13
"Crisis of Conscience" pg 266, Edition for Digital Readers and Enlarged Text
In the chapter titled '1914 and "This Generation"' Raymond Franz had this to say about the February 15th 1994 Issue of the Watchtower and its moving the application of portions of Mathew 24 forward to the start of the "great tribulation"
'As stated the organization can hardly give up 1914 completely without undermining a host of teachings based on that date. But if the phrase 'this generation' could be unlinked from 1914 and be applied to some future period of unknown date then the passage of time, the arrival of the third millennium in the year 2000 and even the approach of the year 2014, might not prove too difficult to rationalize, particularly with a membership trained to accept whatever the 'faithful and discreet slave class' and its Governing Body may offer them"
After this statment was made in September 1994, 13 months later articles appeared in the Nov 1, 1995 Watchtower, unlinked the phrase 'this generation' from the date 1914, but still retained the date as Biblically significant. This was accomplished by the new definition of the sense of generation in this text. In 1926, 'The Golden Age' magazine of October 20 connected Jesus' words about this 'generation' to the date of 1914 as did subsequent Watchtower magazines.
25 years later, the June 1, 1951, Watchtower page 335, in connection with 1914 stated, Hence our generation is the generation that will see the START AND FINISH of all these things, including Armageddon. In the July 1, 1951, issue page 404, 'this generation' was again linked to 1914. Of Matt 24:34 it said 'The actual meaning of these words is, beyond question that which takes a generation, IN THE ORDINARY SENSE as at Mark 8:12 and Acts 13:36, or for those who are living at the given period' It then added, 'This therefore means that from 1914 a generation shall not pass till all is fulfilled, and amidst a great time of trouble.
For over forty years thereafter, the WatchTower publications continued to assign a TEMPORAL sense (based on a certain time) to the 'generation' of Matt 24:34. The aging of the 1914 generation was pointed to again and again as clear evidence of the shortness of the remaining time.
In the revised 1995 definition however, rather than having parameters of time limitations or any set starting point, the generation is instead said to be identified, not temporarily but qualitatively (overlapping, etc..) by its characteristics as in the reference to an evil and alduterous generation in Jesus time. 'This generation' is now to said to be the peoples of earth who see the sign of Christ presence but fail to mend their ways.
1914 is not discarded (and will probably never be) however something the organization could not do without dismantling the major theological structure and distinctive tenets of the religion. 1914 remains as the claimed date of Christ enthronement in heaven, the beginning of his second invisible, presence, as also the start of the last days. And it still figures, though obliquely, in the new definition of 'this generation', since the sign of Christ's presence--which doomed ones see and reject or ignore--supposedly began to be visible worldwide from and after 1914. (Now here is the kicker)
What then is the significant difference. Is it that now, to QUALIFY (not quantify) as part of 'this generation', a person need no longer have been alive in 1914 (now overlapping) to form part of 'this generation'. ANYONE can see the supposed sign of Christ's presence at ANY TIME--even if for the first time in the 1990's or for that matter in the third millennium--AND STILL QUALIFY AS PART OF 'THIS GENERATION'. This allows the phrase to FLOAT FREE OF ANY STARTING DATE (or be defined as different dates for the start of overlapping generations) and reduces considerably the need to explain the EMBARRASSING LENGTH OF TIME THAT HAS ELAPSED SINCE 1914 AND THE RAPIDLY DIMINSHING RANKS OF PEOPLE WHO WERE ALIVE AT THAT DATE (so overlap them with "future generations")'.
(This future qualitive view was adopted and has continued to be mode of pushing the end times out to infinity by a change in the masthead of the AWAKE Nov 8, 1995 issue)
Before Nov 8, 1995, it read: Most importantly, this magazine builds confidence in the Creators promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the event of 1914 pass away.
After Nov 8, 1995, it read: Most importantly, this magazine builds confidence in the Creators promise of a peaceful and secure new world THAT IS ABOUT TO REPLACE THE PRESENT, WICKED, LAWLESS SYSTEM OF THINGS. (ABOUT TO buys time...much time...out to whenever it supposedly will happen)
The promise of the creator had suddenly changed...but apparently only the "ANNOINTED" knew of this...
Today, this statement is not on any Awake or the study edition of the WatchTower. However, on the public edition of the Watchtower it says "It [The WatchTower] comforts people with the good news that God's heavenly Kingdom will SOON end all wickedness and transform the earth into a paradise. It promotes faith in Jesus Christ (gotta get those "other" christians), who died so that we might gain everlasting life and who is now ruling as King (no mention of 1914) of God's Kingdom. This magazine has been published continuously since 1879 and is non political. It adheres to the Bible as its authority.
I simply wanted to show just how much Raymond Franz knew...he predicted the qualitative view that would ultimately come about to push out the time of the end. I was not JW very long less than 8 years...but I saw this "time pushing" a while back...I was stuck on that verse where Christ said "no man knows the hour not even I"...the final straw came with the New Light last year...
I don't plan on reading any more magazines...all the information is reccycled over and over again....the boredom alone was inoculating.
Please, by all means correct me if I have made any mistakes...
Maat
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42
Are all JWs united in their beliefs?
by enigma1863 inso i used to think that all witnesses believed the same exact thing but i have heard some claims that they believe things i'm not familiar with.
do you know if it's true?
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Maat13
Oubliette, you said..
"With JW beliefs changing as they do and being explained as they are, it is clear that there is no way in the grave 1 that JWs could possibly all believe the same thing."
Spot on!!!
Maat
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21
Can it be said mankind has tried....
by punkofnice in....every form of government there is?.
the watchtower claims this is why armageddon hasn't come yet....apparently ol' j-man is showing how awful man is at governing himself.
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Maat13
The real test of man governing himself will not come about until the farce of religion is shown. Out of that chaos, the like of things never seen before will emerge.
Maat
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38
Which Conspiracy Theory Should You Believe?
by metatron inhttp://www.buzzfeed.com/katieheaney/which-conspiracy-theory-should-you-believe-in.
it's a quiz to help you pick a conspiracy theory that fits you.
i ended up with "moon landing was faked" which doesn't exactly apply.. .
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Maat13
When I was I kid, I always loved magic shows. My favorite part was when the magician said, "look there's nothing in my hand". And that's when I immediately turned my attention to his other hand and/or assistant. It became obvious what was going on.
Tha's my summation on conspiracy theories...too many people are caught watching that empty hand.
Maat
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Maat13
Jam,
You've got an excellent theory. Keep that train of thought and expound upon it. Read,read, and read some more. Remember the internet is the "Cliff Notes" version of information. ( I'm showing my age)...go to the library...the real truth is available. No need to pose theories...
Maat