gaiagirl

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Posts by gaiagirl

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  24

  Born Agains:- What do you beileve?

  by LouBelle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there was a post on here about been being a born again christian.

  i must admit i don't know all the ins & outs of being one, but i did pop into a church and did a stint for 3 months before i left as their doctrine become clearer to me - i couldn't stay.. i'm not sure if these beliefs are held all around the earth by bas so clarification would be welcome:.

  1. paying tithe: i was told by the leaders of the church that this is a mandate from god/the bible and it plays a key roll in doing the will of the lord.. 2. once saved...always saved & a constant laying your sins at the foot of the cross.. 3. the belief in the rapture.

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  gaiagirl

  I'd say that anyone who was once a JW and has left the organization and begun a life outside has been born again. The five points which you mention are dogmas, and every church, and possibly every individual, will have their own take on each one of those points.

  My take would be something like:

  1) Give what you can, and only if you are SURE the money is being used for good cause. A certain percentage mandated by the church does not allow for peoples individual circumstances. It's like WTBTS mandating a certain number of hours service each month.

  2) Once saved, always saved? So if a person becomes saved, then begins a life of crime, they are still saved? Sorry, this belief is a logical fallacy.

  3) There will NEVER be a rapture. This is the born-again equivalent of the WTBTS carrot-on-a-stick "new system of things", a false hope to encourage people to obey the dictates of the church. Paul, Peter, and other first century Christians MAY have actually believed it would happen to them, however we KNOW that it did not, that they died just like the unbelievers of their time.

  4) The tribulation was written about AFTER the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, expressing the hopes, by early Christians who still considered themselves as Jews, only with a Messiah, that they were STILL Gods chosen people. There will NEVER be a tribulation brought upon the Earth by a God who is defined as "Love". Blaming earthly problems on God is failing to take responsibility. Humans create problems, and are capable of solving them.

  5) Christ is dead, just like Moses, Buddah, Mohammed, Ghandi, and other noteworthy men. He is recorded as saying (although this may have been added by a later writer) he would return WHILE those first Christians were still alive. We know this did not happen. Another carrot-on-a-stick.
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  22

  What holiday is your favorite?

  by gaiagirl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i really enjoy halloween.

  the air is crisper and cooler, a relief from the hot summer.

  the season is a celebration of the harvest, as the earth has once more provided her bounty which the people store up to last through the winter until spring.. .

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  gaiagirl

  I really enjoy Halloween. The air is crisper and cooler, a relief from the hot summer. The season is a celebration of the Harvest, as the Earth has once more provided her bounty which the people store up to last through the winter until spring.
  
  I don't really believe the traditions regarding ghosts, etc at Halloween, but do find them a great deal of fun, and participate with decorations. The costume thing is also fun, Halloween parties are the BEST! People tend to be in a much better mood and much less stressed out than during Christmas.
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  6

  Should jws visited places associated with paganism?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  stonehenge etc

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  gaiagirl

  I once went camping with a JW and her unbelieving husband to Big Bend National Park in west Texas. We explored the ruins of a dwelling, and they took a picture of me standing by the crumbling fireplace.
  
  Upon showing the photos to JWs back at the KH, one said "Oh how awful! Why would you allow yourself to be photographed next to that obscene PAGAN ALTAR"?
  
  Apparantly, the thought is that JWs should not visit structures associated with "false religion". Since leaving, I've visited churches in larger cities such as Chicago and San Francisco. While I don't share their beliefs, I am very impressed with the architecture, workmanship, and devotion which these represent. There is a beauty there which you will never find in a sterile KH. I would very much like to see a preserved pagan temple, if any such thing existed. I suppose the closest thing I've seen is the Peace Pagoda in San Francisco.
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  43

  Boring bookstudy book...which one was the worst?

  by White Dove in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i remember the old timers saying that the red babylon book was the hardest to understand.. in my memory, i'd have to say the isaiah books and daniel book were the most involved and boring.. the revelation book had gorgeous pictures in it (the writing was horribly boring), so i just looked at them, and i was 22 at the first study of it!.

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  gaiagirl

  I probably got less out of the Revelation book than any of the others. As already noted, the writing was terrible. I had a distinct sense that the writers didn't really understand Revelation, and were just trying to sound as if they did. Explanations for difficult passages used expressions such as "This LIKELY means that....". Obviously inspired by holy spirit...NOT!
  
  I came to view the bookstudy as "filler", just something the WTBTS wanted us to do so we wouldn't be doing anything else.
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  19

  JW's who only stay for social reasons are serving out of wrong motives

  by yadda yadda 2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we know that many jw's are very disillusioned and would probably love to step sideways from their religion.

  but they stay because all their friends and family are jw's.

  this is especially the case with younger ones and single ones in the organisation, who often have very sophisticated social lives and networks of friends in the organisation.

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  gaiagirl

  I think that the description was a fairly accurate assessment of my own time with the WTBTS.
  
  I eventually realized that I didn't REALLY believe the doctrines.
  
  I never, ever, enjoyed field service, didn't believe I was helping anyone I met, and only participated because I learned from experience that elders would hound me if I didn't.
  
  My primary interst, I came to realize, was in my social network of friends. However, my "friends" were only friends in a conditional manner, that is, so long as they viewed me as someone who would reinforce their own beliefs, then they were my friend, as soon as I stopped reinforcing their beliefs they were my friends no longer.
  
  I found that there are plenty of worthy people outside the organization, who don't care so much whether you knock doors or how you dress, people who either like you or don't based on the person you actually are, and not how well you conform to a standard imposed by a book publishing company in New York, whose primary interest is in MOVING MORE PRODUCT.
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  2

  Carl Sagan on how to recognize truth

  by gaiagirl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  during his presentation of the gifford lectures back in the 1980's, carl sagan was asked by an audience member "how do you recognize the truth when it is upon us"?

  carls answer was quite thoughtful, and has application to many avenues of life, including claims by various religious groups:.

  it is of course, difficult.

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  gaiagirl

  During his presentation of the Gifford Lectures back in the 1980's, Carl Sagan was asked by an audience member "How do you recognize the truth when it is upon us"? Carls answer was quite thoughtful, and has application to many avenues of life, including claims by various religious groups:
  
  Quote:"A simple question: How can we recognize the truth? It is of course, difficult. But there are a few simple rules.
  
  The truth ought to be logically consistent. It should not contradict itself; that is, there are some logical criteria.
  
  It ought to be consistent with what else we know. That is an additional way in which miracles run into trouble. We know a great many things-a tiny fraction, to be sure, of the universe, a pitifully tiny fraction. But nevertheless some things we know with quite high reliability. So where we are asking about the truth, we ought to be sure that it's not inconsistent with what else we know.
  
  We should also pay attention to how badly we want to believe a given contention. The more badly we want to believe it, the more skeptical we have to be. It involves a kind of courageous self-discipline.
  
  Nobody says it's easy. I think those three principles at least will winnow out a fair amount of chaff. It doesn't guarantee that what remains will be true, but a least it will significantly diminish the field of discourse". End Quote
  
  The text of the lectures themselves, as well as the questions posed by audience members, and Carls responses are collected in "The Varieties of Scientific Experience-A Personal View of the Search For God". I found the book to be very enjoyable.
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  77

  Make a statement you have found to be TRUE.

  by gaiagirl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jw's like to refer to their body of beliefs as "the truth", even when those beliefs are adjusted or even reversed, giving rise to the question 'if this is "the truth", then what were the beliefs which were promoted as "the truth" until the change'?.

  state something you have actually found to be "true", in the sense that, in your experience, it agrees with what is observed in the real world.. .

  i'll start: knowledge is power

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  gaiagirl

  JW's like to refer to their body of beliefs as "The Truth", even when those beliefs are adjusted or even reversed, giving rise to the question 'If THIS is "The Truth", then what were the beliefs which were promoted as "The Truth" until the change'?
  
  State something you have actually found to be "True", in the sense that, in your experience, it agrees with what is observed in the real world.
  
  I'll start: Knowledge Is Power
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  48

  Need suggestions for a band name............

  by crazyblondeb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my daughter's boyfriend is in a prrety good band.

  they have been playing in my basement for quite a while.. they need a name, and i'm empty, the ones they are coming up with are lame......they play rock..... any suggestions???

  ?.

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  gaiagirl

  Here are a few terms from the science of geology:
  
  Anomaly
  Thrust Fault
  Rift Zone
  Orogeny
  Lode
  Intrusion
  Inclusion
  
  and one from Norse mythology: Loki
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  29

  OK any Country Music fans out there?

  by zagor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just to change topic from all this doom and gloom going on around these parts, makes me feel all queasy as if i'm attending watchtower ... so how about some country?

  i love country music, always have.

  just listening to to some right now ... so here we go.

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  gaiagirl

  Not a huge fan of the genre, but I do like particular songs:
  
  "Beaches of Cheyenne" (the saddest song EVER)
  
  "Check Yes or No"
  
  "I Love This Bar"
  
  "Its Five O'Clock Somewhere"
  
  "Independence Day"
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  12

  A JW's view of a rape victim

  by digderidoo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the following is an ongoing discussion about wt disfellowship policy.

  it can be seen at http://bible-discussion.com/message-board-forum/viewtopic.php?t=7798&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105 .

  a poster called wolvo has post a youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zs86dfzbg8 which has been brought into the discussion of a 17 year old rape victim who was later disfellowshipped for not screaming during the rape.. due to the fact the disfellowshipped girl admitted to petting, a jw on the forum by the name of tbax had this to say with regards to her being raped.. .

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  gaiagirl

  The JW view is based on 3000 year old, bronze age partriarchal laws in which a womans only value is what she can bring in trade when she is married off. In this view, virgins are "worth" more, and a rape victim is "worth" less, and sometimes even worthless.