Posts by menrov

15

Any good answers at this Sunday's WT?

by Lemonp in

obviously this weeks' wt has been part 3 of big changes in the doctrine.

at the end i answered up saying along the lines of: "as we can see from the illustration box, when it comes to the reward being given to the slaves, divine appointment was not given in 1919. this will happen in future when the anointed get taken before armageddon".

i couldn't bring myself to say "raptured at armageddon" as i think people might have taken a closer look at me...but it felt good to call out publicly the bull sh#t date of 1919 .

menrov

I have not gone for months. However, I had a chat / discussion with my wife on the meaning of illustrations (definition, purpose) and if a parable / illustration is equal to a prophecy....

Anyway, at some point paragraph 8 in the study Will You Keep Awake came up, I believe a study article from 2 weeks ago, It reads:

8 They have indeed! Throughout the last days, anointed Christians have acted like those discreet virgins, prepared to carry out their assignment faithfully until the end. They count the cost of faithful service, realizing from the outset that their assignment will mean giving up many of the material advantages available in Satan’s world. They devote themselves exclusively to Jehovah and serve him, not with some date or deadline in mind, but out of love and loyalty to him and to his Son. They maintain their integrity, refusing to adopt the spirit of this wicked world and its materialistic, immoral, and selfish attitudes. They thus remain ready, steadily shining as illuminators, undaunted by any apparent delay in the arrival of the Bridegroom.

I asked who the THEY are and she said the anointed. OK I said, so that means that all things mentioned here in this paragraph (and actually all parables discussed) are about the remaining anointed on earth, say some 14.000? Or in other words, these words do not apply to all other say 8 million JWs ? And why are about 8 million JW;s gathering to discuss parables that are only meant for the remaining 14.000? Isn't that weird, to say the least??

40

Spiritual AMNESTY -- Return to Jehovah

by FusionTheism in

basically, from what i can tell from the new return to jehovah brochure, is that the governing body is now offering amnesty to anyone who has been gone from the congregation but now wants to return.. it claims it doesn't matter what sins you've done, or what caused you to leave, if you repent to jehovah and ask the elders to help you, and return to the meetings, you'll be warmly welcomed with no disciplinary action or judgment against you..

menrov

More people that they believe want to return means more $$$$$

In their view it is always a win.

21

RC 2015 Book "Jesus—The Way, the Truth, the Life"

by wifibandit in

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/jesus/.

.

non jw download - all formats & audio.

menrov

of all the over 300 pages, there is one 1,5 page about Jesus today. And from that, only a few sentences that Jesus is now King. But it totally misses what that should mean to Christians today......

Peculiar as all the book is about say 3,5 years of His life on earth and about nothing about His much much much longer life in heaven.....

As such, it is indeed much like he former Greatest Man book. In my view, a window dressing exercise to please those in the R&F that like to see this.....

16

List of Convention releases

by paulmolark in

day 1 release - return to jehovah .

day 2 release - jesus - the way, the truth, the life .

day 2 release - become jehovah's friend - .

menrov

Day 2 release (Jesus) PDF is same is as day 1 (Jehovah) PDF.....

22

New light on more parables

by Deltawave in

well after a full watchtower study last week about how we should not read to much into bible account as types and antitypes, we had a whole study article on what the 10 wise virgins now means.

interesting though is the fact that only in 2007/8 they taught that the discreet virgins were the annointed ones who waited for christ's return in 1914 and the foolish ones were the ones who fell away in 1914 because the end didn't come.

now though, we have new light!

menrov

The article "forgets" to mention that 1) all ten virgins fell asleep (matt. 25:5), and all become awake when there is an announcement (who gives that announcement??) that the bridegroom is here (not arriving invisibly but has arrived, visibly). Only then the amount of oil becomes an issue.

So, all virgins feel asleep......

Only when it is announced the bridegroom is here, they all wake up. The parable (that is what it is, not a prophecy) is to warn all believers to be ready to be joined with Jesus. How? Well, throughout the NT we read that FAITH is the critical element of believers. I guess the oil represents the amount of faith. So, in my view, Jesus is warning His followers that a lack of faith is dangerous as in will jeopardize your access to the kingdom.

For Jesus, all parables were meant to say about things that save you and allow access to the kingdom / eternal life or the things things that will prevent that.

11

Wife just went to circuit meeting

by menrov in

hi, for a couple of months now.

i stopped (after some 17 years) visiting meetings etc.

my intellect and conscience could not longer stand the lectures from the platform and in the magazines.

menrov

Thanks all. I do feel though that I seem to have given the impression I want to enforce my view on her. That is not the case. I was sharing an observation, a situation likely others are in as well.

My point is, that for someone (JW in general) who claims to do all that is written, it seems that the council in Eph. is not really considered. At least it seems not in situations like I am in now.

To consider: there is no scriptural support in NT to justify the obligation to visit annual conventions or assemblies. That was a practice with the Jews under the Law. But the council by Paul is I guess relevant to all Christians. (even to situations where husband is an unbeliever).

In my situation. it was presented as a given fact that she would go to attend the circuit meeting. If I would say I would go on Sunday to an all day event, I am sure she would expect me to discus and come to a sort of a mutual agreement that I would go alone and leave her because she does not want to go. I guess she would not have liked me to just tell her I'd be away for the day and because I know she would not want to join me, I'd leave her alone on Sunday. And she would be absolutely right that a couple discusses this. So, why not when there is a JW circuit meeting?

That was just my point.

11

Wife just went to circuit meeting

by menrov in

hi, for a couple of months now.

i stopped (after some 17 years) visiting meetings etc.

my intellect and conscience could not longer stand the lectures from the platform and in the magazines.

menrov

HI Daniel1555, you are right that in light of religious freedom, she has that right. In other words, she is entitled to have her own belief or faith. But with regard to actions, i.e. visiting meeting and supporting activities related to that belief, there should be some sort of common agreement. Otherwise this council has no value to christian, regardless if one is a JW:
Eph. 5:22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord, 23 because the husband is the head of the wife as also Christ is the head of the church – he himself being the savior of the body. 24 But as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

11

Wife just went to circuit meeting

by menrov in

hi, for a couple of months now.

i stopped (after some 17 years) visiting meetings etc.

my intellect and conscience could not longer stand the lectures from the platform and in the magazines.

menrov

Hi, for a couple of months now. I stopped (after some 17 years) visiting meetings etc. My intellect and conscience could not longer stand the lectures from the platform and in the magazines. Anyway, my wife is still in, and almost seems she is even more "in" than before.

Today there is a circuit meeting. I did not go but she decided to go. I can only imagine the comments when she is there:
oh, how strong you are to be here, so good of you, a very good example etc etc.

If I would go out on my own to day, people who know me/us, we likely say: where is your wife? that is not nice that she preferred to go to that meeting than to stay with you, that religion must have a strong influence on her etc etc

The first group only looks at how my wife is following the JW routine, regardless her (scriptural) responsibility to her husband. The second group will have a much softer opinion and possibly find it all a bit strange that the wife is away for the whole day.

I did ask her why she does not follow the council by Paul that the man is the head of the woman, in other words, the woman should follow the lead of the man. I am still very christian but not a JW anymore (faded, not DA/DF). So, there is not one little shred of scriptural support to justify her to choose for an/the organisation and as such disrespecting / disobeying her husband. In my view, it is actually against the scriptures.

I sometimes wonder: how many marriages eventually ended due to this phenomenon?

75

Rumor about the Imitate Jesus Convention

by FusionTheism in

i saw a rumor a few weeks ago on reddit that the new imitate jesus convention is supposed to present new light and clarified understandings on the disfellowshipping/disassociation practices.. supposedly, if this rumor has any truth to it, there will be a talk given at the convention about how we should not be strict like the pharisees in how we shun people, loosening up some of the jw rules about this practice.. has anyone here heard anything about this or have more info on it?.

menrov

Hi, on another forum, I posted a quick analysis of the program. For what it is worth, here is my view on it:

I looked at the contents of the program and read the verses mentioned with the 30 to 45 minute talks (I exclude the symposiums as the topics are rather straightforward and are about behaviours). None of the verses mentioned make any reference to Jesus being a King with full authority, being our Judge and as such our life giver or being the Master of all congregations and will hold all accountable for their actions.
It is mainly about how Jesus lived on earth, His motives or drivers, and His actions. Also how He was submissive to His Father etc.

My feeling is that overall after the 3 days, the average JW will know (again) that Jesus was / is our biggest example with regard to how we should live, but he/she will not feel drawn closer to Jesus nor feel an urge to follow Christ as their leader (shepherd). He/she will feel the governing body did an excellent job to teach about Jesus and will be further motivated to put faith in their governing body.

The program on Friday (excl. the symposium):
Imitate Jesus—Why and How? (Luke 6:40)
Follow Jesus’ Pattern—Keep On Asking, Seeking and Knocking! (Luke 11:9-13; 22:41-44)
“Concealed in Him Are All the Treasures of Wisdom” (Colossians 2:2-4; Matthew 5:17-20, 43-48)
Sing Praises in Imitation of Jesus (Exodus 15:1, 2, 21;Matthew 26:30; 2 Corinthians 8:12; Colossians 3:16)
‘For a Certainty God Made Him Lord and Christ’—Part I (Mark 5:22-43; Luke 2:7-14, 42-47;4:1-30; 8:40-56)
“He Was Favorably Heard for His Godly Fear” (Hebrews 5:7; Matthew 10:27-31; 1 Peter 3:14)
Jesus “Came to Seek and to Save What Was Lost” (Luke 15:4-10; 19:10)

For example, the latter topic on Friday refer to the parable in Luke about searching for 1 sheep and leave the 99 others. The message of Jesus was that He came to what was lost and find them and reconcile them with the Father, so they become His children again and as such, brother of Jesus, with the same heritance. But as the organisation does not consider the R&F to be a sheep in that sense, I sense the contents will be more around the (renewed) efforts by the organisation to search for the ones that have become inactive or faded (a new brochure on this topic leaked a while ago). In other words, the organisation is imitating Jesus by focussing on the inactive JW's

Saturday:
Follow Jesus, But Not “at a Distance” (Luke 22:54)
Train, Trust, and Empower Others, as Jesus Does (Luke 8:1; 9:1; 10:1)
"For This I Have Come Into the World” (John 18:37; Matthew 21:23-46; 22:15-46)
Arm Yourselves With Christ’s Mental Disposition (Matthew 4:8-10; 8:1-3; John 2:13-17; 1 Peter 4:1, 2)

The first topic mentioned here has a rather peculiar verse mentioned. It is about Peter who followed at a distance. But the setting has nothing to do with a wrong behavior nor is there any educational contents intended with the fact that Peter followed at a distance. I presume the talk will be about being more active in the organisation.
The verses mentioned with 3rd topic above is about the fact that Jesus was sent and that His authority (while on earth) was given to Him and the many parables Jesus gave. As these verse address many things it is a bit hard to see what the heading of the topic actually means. I feel it will be about the authority of the governing body and the privilege to be part of the organisation.

Sunday
Jesus Christ, World Conqueror—How and When? (John 16:33; Revelation 6:2; 17:12-14)
This is rather strange questions as John 16:33 says that Jesus already conquered the world and the verses in Revelation is about a completely different conquering.
True Liberation Awaits Those Who Imitate Jesus (Leviticus 25:10-12; Acts 3:21)
‘For a Certainty God Made Him Lord and Christ’—Part II (Matthew 16:13-20;John 9:1-41; 11:1-44; Acts 1:1-11; 2:31)
As the Storm Approaches, Maintain Your Focus on Jesus! (Matthew 14:22-34; Hebrews 12:2)

The topic in red is not mentioning about Jesus current position and authority, It refers to His role on earth, as the promised Christ or Messiah, and the other verses are more about the resurrections and how he healed people. I expect the talk will stress that we can have faith in the Father as He made Jesus Christ and Lord (but not explaining what this should really mean to Christians) and that under the command of HIs Father will resurrect the loyals.

16

Better Bible Translation?

by Sofia Lose in

which bible translation is the best, according to biblical scholars, anybody knows?

please chime in.. i plan on getting it and doing comparison with the new world translation.

sl.

menrov

I use:
https://lumina.bible.org/bible/Matthew+1 --> NET, has very good footnotes.

and this resource:

http://studybible.info/compare/John%203:16

and biblehub.