KateWild: It's really funny that you said they have skinned the sheep alive. There's a subliminal message in the November 2012 Watchtower. Some of their lovely artwork. It shows a shepherd (elder) shearing (skinning) a sheep alive. You can tell what the message implies because of the picture...a skinning knife, the way he's pulling the wool away down to the skin... that's not how a sheep is really sheared. On the next page it shows a knife in Bible times. Clearly not the same type. The message on the subconcious level says to the witnesses: We have the power and if you screw up, we WILL skin you alive. I've been watching some videos done by ex JWs on the subliminal messages and embedded images in the WT pubs. It's scary!! They have a video for the WT June 2014. Very, very demonic. If you google MikeKim subliminal, you'll find their series. The 6/14 WT one is the subliminal images 2.5 video.
Enlightenment123
JoinedPosts by Enlightenment123
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49
Misappropriation of funds (Project for an Assembly Hall in Guadalajara)
by avaddohn94 inat the extj.com forum, a very serious scandal is being discussed regarding a potential misappropriation of funds by mexico's branch.. http://www.extj.com/showthread.php?24740-denuncia--quot-proyecto-fantasma-quot-salon-de-asambleas-de-guadalajara-o-robo-de-fondos.
though the situation may not be quite uncommon, below you will find an overview:.
a member of mexico's branch committee went to guadalajara to inform the brothers that a plot of land had been donated for the construction of an assembly hall.
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I'm postponing my JW elderette and her BS session again
by Faithful Witness ini really do have more important things to do this week, so i am postponing my elderette again.
she has not yet contacted me for her "topic of discussion" for the week.
i know she wants time to prepare her speech and presentation.
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Enlightenment123
Well, hmmm...I think I may have a couple of new ideas here. :) Thank you!
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Oh come on!!! seriously?? This weeks wt study!
by stuckinarut2 ini'm sitting here at the mtg, and i can't believe the mind numbing stupidity of this weeks wt "study"...( i use the word study loosely too by the way...).
how many dumb repeated questions can be posed to try and make a point?.
the opening paragraph illustration re blindness is classic!
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Enlightenment123
Good one!
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Misappropriation of funds (Project for an Assembly Hall in Guadalajara)
by avaddohn94 inat the extj.com forum, a very serious scandal is being discussed regarding a potential misappropriation of funds by mexico's branch.. http://www.extj.com/showthread.php?24740-denuncia--quot-proyecto-fantasma-quot-salon-de-asambleas-de-guadalajara-o-robo-de-fondos.
though the situation may not be quite uncommon, below you will find an overview:.
a member of mexico's branch committee went to guadalajara to inform the brothers that a plot of land had been donated for the construction of an assembly hall.
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Enlightenment123
This is pathetic.
I really, really like their bogus explanation ... doing an analysis. I really, really, really love how they said eventually, the brothers *could choose to donate that $2.5 Million to the worldwide work. I'd almost believe the boys in Brooklyn are behind these make-believe construction projects. Perhaps it's a new ploy for the Ivory Tower to get their hands on some serious cash.
"Hey, let's say we're building a huge assembly hall. It'll be such a benefit to so many congregations that can use it! We will push for it, tell them what it'll cost them in personal donations, then give them some false hope and bank statements so they continue to believe their money is still even in the country. Then, we can just sit on it. They'll wait...just like they "wait on Jehovah". After a while, if they do get brave and say something, we'll give them this analysis explanation. Of course, what we will really do is kindly suggest that these funds would now best be suited for our preaching work...of course, they don't know we will have already spent their money a long time ago on some kind of crap. So, anyway... yeah, let's suggest they donate it to us. Yeah, they'll see the value of that suggestion. It is for Jehovah and the Kingdom, right?"
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I'm postponing my JW elderette and her BS session again
by Faithful Witness ini really do have more important things to do this week, so i am postponing my elderette again.
she has not yet contacted me for her "topic of discussion" for the week.
i know she wants time to prepare her speech and presentation.
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Enlightenment123
Excuse my ignorance, but what is an elderette?
I am trying to speak to my family too. They're very deeply indoctrinated. Everything I've said thus far has had no effect that I can see. Except...now, if I mention something about the Bible, my mom becomes pretty hateful, and has taken to not answering my phone calls or texts. She's sick with bronchitis right now, been in bed for a few days. She actually asked me a question the other day that I answered. She didn't like the answer. She said, "Whatever." That doesn't sound rude, but you have to know my mom. It was meant to be rude. I asked if there was anything I could do for her, since she was sick. She blew me off and said she didn't need my help. This really hurts me. I have lots of family in the JWs. My grandpa is an elder, his son too. I've tried to talk to my Grandmother. At first, I thought she was at least a little receptive. I spoke to her and my grandpa both at the same time about a week ago. After that, they seem angry with me and I haven't spoken to them since then. I was calm and polite. I simply pointed out a few things in the Bible that contradict WT teachings. I've been looking for help. Is there a method I'm not aware of that can somehow get around the indoctrination? Is there a Tony Robbins phrase I can say? lol
This 11/15/13 WT you guys are talking about...it's sinister! It's threatening. It is really scary. I asked on another thread what people thought about it. If anyone else thought the WT has an endgame. I think they do. I think they are planning something big - Waco style. Hearing about the survival kits and this new place they're building...something is definitely up. I'm not sure which version of that mag is worse. I definitely think a "drink the Kool-Aid", take this "magic pill", or "it's time, Jehovah says murder the worldly people for him" thing is in the works. I absolutely believe we have to find a way to reach these people. We have to get them away from this dangerous group. It's wrong on so many different levels, I think it would take till Kingdom come to write it all down. Ugh.
Oh..I asked my mom if she would follow any directions she received no matter how crazy it was. She said yes without hesitation. She believes it's coming straight from Jehovah. They all do.
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A MESSAGE to the Governing Body and others like them through human history
by Terry inthere is something all too familiar about it, something that sickens the stomach and reminds us how low and prejudiced evil minds can go.. those who divide humans up in order to weaken and conquer them will stop at nothing if not counterfeit reasoning to justify their evil.. .
the arguments made in the past and the arguments made in the present have a familiar ring to them and the false clanger is a note of warning!.
"if you give women the right to vote, you're just doubling the vote of their husband.".
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Enlightenment123
Androb has a point. If the GB ever read this, they wouldn't believe it applied to them.
Michelle has a point. It was the experience of Ray Franz, in that, some of them were afraid to voice their real opinions even amongst themselves. But I do believe that they are knowingly teaching false things, for whatever reasons. I think a lot of it has to do with greed...it's a lot financial. I agree with Smiddy there, on them willingly spreading a false message.
Ultimately, I think this letter is justified. Terry is just expressing his feelings. I have negative feelings too, even though I try to forgive anyway. The Governing Body has done a whole lot more harm than good. Terry, the only other comment I have is that I recently read something that said it is now almost just shy of 8 million, instead of 7 million.
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How did you find the truth about the truth (TTATT)
by Maat13 ini am sure there has been a post about this subject, however being a recent addition to the network i don't know how to do a search.
and i'm sure new folks have joined since then.
i am really curious of how others came to know ttatt.. for me is was a real bad experience with one elder after another.
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Enlightenment123
Crazyguy... the Revelation Climax book is an abomination of desolation.
I, myself, have been "out of the truth" for about 18 years, since I was 15. I was born-in from birth. Doing the little sister talks, etc. starting around 5-6 years old. The elders in the cong were seriously impressed with me at age 3, because I had the Bible books memorized. When I was little, I can remember feeling so special and accomplished for that. Pathetic, I know. I really can't remember exactly what started it all, but I knew then that something wasn't right. It was a bit later in life that I actually started really researching. When I was a teenager, I just kinda faded. I don't guess the elders thought I was a good enough witness, because they didn't bother trying to bring me back.
I always hated the bullying and taunting, as a little kid, at school because of not celebrating holidays, and having to go sit in the hall if the class was doing something for one. Also the taunting from not saluting the flag, or taunting because I couldn't go to school sports events, or even participate in them. On top of the school kids doing it, all the kids at the KH were total jerks to me too. I had a really tough childhood, and my dad was DF when I was about 10. The kids really treated me badly after that, because of my dad doing something bad enough for the DF. But anyway, I just kinda faded. My mom wasn't really around much at that time. She also faded, and did her own thing. So, I never saw her often enough for her to care whether or not I went to meetings. Now...she's more indoctrinated than ever before. When I was in my early 20s, I really thought about going back for a very short amount of time (family pressure). I went to a couple of meetings then, and if I remember correctly, I heard something from a WT study that was way, way wrong. I started researching. And the rest is history. Except...I still try really hard to get my family away from it. Hasn't worked yet.
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Upcoming Surgery and Blood
by HeyThere ini am a newly unbaptised publisher.
recently i found out i need to have major surgery and the jw's tried to rush a blood card in my hand.
i was so relieved when the elders said i could not have one until i was baptised.. but they rushed to get me copies of the blood videos.
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Enlightenment123
I am so sorry you have to have surgery. I hope it all goes very, very well for you. There is good advice here, especially Bob_NC's. If the hospital liaison committee comes to the hospital they WILL pressure your husband. Threats of disfellowshipping, etc. Make sure every single person involved with your surgery, like Bob said, knows how you feel and that there is potential for this pressure to happen.
Here is my Bible-based opinion that I recently posted on Yahoo Answers.
The blood issue is a very touchy subject for some - witnesses and non-witnesses alike. Considering the several thousand deaths resulting from this doctrine, I can’t possibly imagine why. Especially when the teaching changes and parts of blood are allowed after so long, and after so many deaths…all because of misinterpretation of scripture that states to “abstain from blood”.
Consider the account of Saul and his army in 1 Samuel 14. These people were faint, very faint. They were starving to death. So what did they do? They slaughtered animals on the ground and ate them WITH the blood. Saul griped at them for it, but ultimately, were they put to death for it? Did they die for eating blood because they were just trying to survive and not starve to death? No. Breaking the Sabbath was punishable by death. Consider what Jesus said about breaking the Sabbath. If your animal falls in a pit on a Sabbath, are you not going to pull it out to safety? Jesus said it was fine to break the Sabbath in order to save life, even just an animal. Those in Saul’s time died for breaking the Sabbath but not for eating the animals with the blood. Jesus corrected this kind of thinking. Preserving life, in a life or death situation is acceptable, even if it means breaking a guideline. Accepting blood in that type of situation should be a personal choice made on your own, within your own conscience. NOT absolutely enforced with an iron hand by a religion and bullying by a hospital liaison committee. What do the “abstain from blood” scriptures really mean, then? Surely not transfusions in the first century. It is mentioned alongside worshipping idols. A lot of idol worshippers in that time period had a practice of drinking blood in their worship. I think this kind of abstaining from blood, and what they were talking about, is much more likely than taking a blood transfusion.
So anyway...this is how I feel. It is a personal choice. It should NOT be legal for that committee to even come into the room. They don't come to give encouragement as they say if they feel you're "weak" and may decide to take blood. They come to bully. They have no right to try to force you into something because their beloved doctrine says so. It is so, so wrong. The only part they're right about, in my opinion, is that there are risks to taking blood. But, there are also risks in having surgery in the first place. There are risks when you walk out your front door. Taking blood should always be your own choice, period.
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Oh come on!!! seriously?? This weeks wt study!
by stuckinarut2 ini'm sitting here at the mtg, and i can't believe the mind numbing stupidity of this weeks wt "study"...( i use the word study loosely too by the way...).
how many dumb repeated questions can be posed to try and make a point?.
the opening paragraph illustration re blindness is classic!
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Enlightenment123
Welcome, fine4now.
Wow. Just wow. This topic is fantastic. There are so many things we could discuss.
It is flippin’ hilarious that you guys are posting from the KH. J I didn’t know they allowed iPads in there. I wonder if that’ll end up biting them in the rear.
I want to talk about a couple of things that have been mentioned. “This generation” and the four horseman of Revelation. I am not going to get much into prophecy like the WT, because *I* will not be responsible for misleading someone if I’m incorrect.
“This generation”…what a joke. Not that it’s in the Bible, but that it has been redefined so many times to cover up the 1914 error. Ahhh, 1914. It sounds like you guys think it’s bogus. Probably for the same reasons I believe it is. The overlapping generations will cover it for a little while, but eventually 1914 will crash and burn. I have no idea at all how the GB will get out from under it since it is THE core doctrine, but eventually, they’ll be forced to find a way. Overlapping generations can surely only last so long since those guys are already “advancing in years”.
What is your opinion of what “this generation” means? This is mine. So Jesus was speaking to them about the signs of the last days. BUT, it was also signs for the destruction of the temple in AD 70. This, like many in the Bible, is a dual prophecy. Once for the temple destruction, a second time for the last days. This dual prophecy involved his first coming, and later on, his second. So what do I personally think this generation means? I think he meant those people, who were there hearing him speak during his ministry, that generation alive then to hear him, would still be alive when the temple was destroyed. What is that? Roughly 40 years. I think the last days “this generation” will be very much the same. I believe the details of 66-70 AD and the temple destruction, down to the abomination of desolation in that time period, are key to understanding the last days and Revelation. So, if you’ve never read anything much about it…it’s quite interesting.
Was there any overlapping generation if Jesus was talking first about the temple? Nah… plenty of people who heard him speak were still around when it happened. Those people in his time didn’t understand that he was talking about 70 AD, they thought it was right then, immediately. The WT saying things are so much worse right now than ever before is simply ludicrous. People have been reading the Bible every century for the last 2,000 years. Given the horrific stuff that has happened throughout the centuries, I’d bet everyone reading the Bible thought it was in their time, and rightfully so, because there was plenty of bad stuff going on. As for the last days, I don’t think it matters so much as to exactly when they start, but that we remain alert and serve God to the best of our abilities, with our whole heart, body, mind and strength, so that when it does come, we’re not screwing up. There are many other prophecies that talk about the last days, mainly in the OT. The WT doesn’t hardly take these things into consideration when they try to teach prophecy or explain Daniel/Revelation...or well, any prophecy. Do I personally believe we are truly in THE last days right now? No. There’s too much prophesied that is still probably at least a little ways off. But that’s my opinion. And I think the WT just doesn’t know what to make of the other prophecies or how to begin explaining them.
Revelation and the Four Horsemen… my grandpa is an elder, has been for 40-50 years or so. I actually asked him about this a few days ago. Revelation 6. WT maintains that Rev. 6:2 depicts Jesus coming on a white horse with a crown, a bow and sent to conquer. What a horrible misinterpretation. Since when is Jesus one of the four horsemen?? So who do we have here in the opening of these seals? War. Famine. Pestilence/Death. And…the false Christs, false prophets, false religions sent with a bow to go out and conquer and mislead as many as possible. The opening of the seals in Revelation compliment Matthew 24. Wars, kingdom against kingdom…sickness, death…famine…earthquakes…and the great misleading false Christs or teachers on a white horse that rise among us. Sure, a lot of this is happening now, but it has in probably every other century too, starting with Jesus’ time. Revelation 19:11-12….THAT is our King Jesus.
It makes me angry and sad when the WT misleads people with false teaching. “New light” should be progressive, expanding on present knowledge. New light isn’t flip-floppy and inaccurate. If new light replaces old light, and the old light is obsolete, it was never true in the first place. I would never believe God would allow that to happen if he had an earthly organization doing his work. Just like, even though the Bible writers were fallible men, I don’t for a second believe the Bible contains errors. Those men were truly inspired by God. If someone actually believes the GB is spirit-directed and then they get so many things wrong, you’d have to question the entire Bible, because its writers were imperfect too.
As always, I urge any of you to please, do not take me at my word here, but go to the Bible and prove all things for yourself.
I’m curious. Do you guys think Jesus returned invisibly in 1914? Or was it when he ascended to heaven? Or has it even happened yet? Will it be invisible? The way the WT teaches, Jesus returned in 1914. Then he returns again for judgment. That’s a 3 rd coming. I don’t find a third coming in the Bible. I also do not believe in an invisible coming. I do love the WT teaching that explains the invisibility, though. It’s based on Acts 1:11. Society teaching is that since it was a quiet ascension, with only the apostles there, that he returns in the same way, with only the faithful even noticing. Wow. You can form your own conclusion on this scripture and also with the ones where Jesus talks about lightning flashing from east to west or however it’s worded. Lightning…quite visible. Physical ascension to heaven…quite visible, he literally ascended. Every eye will see me, even those who pierced me, Jesus says. That’s visible. The ones that pierced him aren’t still alive, obviously. This just means the people like them at his coming…ones that deny Jesus. Personally, I think his rulership as King either began when he ascended to heaven OR it will begin in the great tribulation. He says that all things in heaven and on earth have been given to him. It was all given to him, or will be, because he succeeded in what he was sent to do. He successfully was the perfect, ultimate sacrifice. If he had failed, we would have no hope and he would not be the rightful heir of all things. If the society acknowledged a visible second coming, instead of the invisible 1914, it would prove that the FDS are liars and haven’t actually been chosen. I personally like the ESV version of Matt. 24:45-46. Here’s what I think about who that faithful and wise servant actually is. It’s anyone, like it says, set over his household (church) that is preaching the true gospel message. Happy are those people who are preaching the real gospel when he comes. It ain’t them boys in Brooklyn. (Sorry, I’m a Texan) =) Anyway, Revelation mentions the 144,000 and that the earth cannot be harmed until they are sealed. They’re apparently all on earth at that time (not in heaven with the anointed that are apparently already being resurrected to heaven).
I don’t know if I’m accurate in saying this because I don’t have the book, but if you have the Proclaimers book, you can look it up. Somewhere in there, it says the arrival of Jesus in 1914 became official teaching soon after Rutherford died. Why is that important? If it’s true, Rutherford went to his grave believing Jesus returned invisibly in the 1800s. And of course, the ones “chosen” in 1919, the faithful ones that would notice his arrival….they weren’t watching! In 1914, they too believed it was the 1800s and he was already present. Why would they watch in 1914 if Jesus was already here? What amazing lies they’re passing off as absolute, Jehovah-inspired truth. The Proclaimers book is a gold mine, from what I’ve seen. It shows different pictures of things going on that all these people were doing during that inspection time of 1914-1919. Celebrating Christmas, etc. etc. One picture, if I remember correctly was a big Christmas party in 1926. I think 1926. Anyway, if you have one, it’s gold.
This is me on Yahoo Answers. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140409110729AAAhCXl
I’ve posted quite a few important questions to JWs…baptism, Memorial, etc. Please check them out if you want. If you click on my profile pic, you should be able to get to the rest of them. I’ve tried hard to stay respectful, but several of the very active JWs that have answered have been pretty rude and hateful in defense of their beliefs. I expect that, of course. But ya know…for being the most loving people on earth, some of them sure have a funny way of showing it if you’re not an active witness in good standing. What’s funny is that I posted one quite a few hours ago about “new light” like what I said above. No takers yet. I hope that means I struck a nerve. They jumped on all the other questions immediately.
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Enlightenment123
NewYork, I like those :)
...when you have war going on in your head, "Crap, am I wrong? Will I die at Armageddon now?" Then logic returns and you realize eh, I'm good.
...when you don't at all mind sitting down with all the elders to show them real Bible truth.
...when you buy a Bible with a cross on the cover.