Posts by outbutnotdown

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

I agree with your post about love being the barometer by which we should measure our lives...... I agree with that wholeheartedly. In no way does this next statement intend to negate that opinion, however, in your next post you began to quote scriptures, thereby suggesting that it is the "Christian" theory of love that should solely be used for the human race.

Is that what you intended to suggest? My point is not that there is no good in Christianity because I have learned a lot of good life lessons from it, but when I, personally, began to accept other people and their beliefs as being at least equal to mine, I began to realize that they were in fact superior to me/mine, due to my close-mindedness due in part, at least, from Christianity's own self-glorification.

Brad

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

outbutnotdown

What is sin? It is one thing to one human, a totally different thing to another human. It is one thing to one religion, and a totally different thing to another religion. It is one thing to one generation, a totally different thing to another generation.

How can it be argued only from a Christian opinion. And, of course, other non-Christian faiths are just as positive that it should be argued only from their religions' individual beliefs as well.

LT,

You said:

Which is the fairer: Letting the first couple sin, putting the whole of mankind in the same boat; or leaving it until a few generations go by, hence setting up a two tier system of cohabiting haves and have-nots?

Myelaine commented that God has also already done the latter as well. I'm suggesting that he has done neither, but simply that both still DO exist. SIN, if you want to call it that, is just there, and allows us, with our imperfections (which are also just there), to condemn and judge other people.

Love has just as solid a station in the history of the world as sin or imperfection, but with virtually no side effects. I'm exactly like every other human on this planet, but my life is happier since I have based my decisions on whether it is a loving thing or not, instead of "would it be the Christian thing to do."

Brad

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

outbutnotdown

LT,

No, it's not too personal, so here goes..... I meant Christian as in the whole kit and kabootle (sp?..lol). While I do rank the JW's as more extreme Christians and, by their actions, more negative an influence on humankind than most of the rest of Christianity (Mormons and some others are way up there too), the whole philosophy of Christ, God, the Holy spirit, IMO is still more spiritually limiting that some other more open-minded faiths, like Taoism and Bhuddism.

But, trust me, I'm under no illusion that any one religion is without fault. However, I do try to form an opinion based on a weighing of how much good they have accomplished in history and how much that is offset by the negative impacts that they have had on society as well.

If somebody wanted to put a label on me, I would have to say that I am agnostic. I'm quite happy admitting that I don't know enough to form a definite opinion on any of it....... too many possibilities that can potentially be at least partly true.

Geez, I'm glad I'm not at the kingdom hall anymore, 'cause I'd be condemned as the biggest fence -sitter in history.....

Brad

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

outbutnotdown

Hell of a scripture, that Isaiah 45:7. I don't remember ever reading it as a JW, to be honest, or I think I would have left earlier, me hopes....

Not to try to pick on you twice in one night, LT, but isn't it circular reasoning to say that God created good and evil or peace and evil, but that the same humans that he created are solely responsible for that same evil that he created?

IMHO, it seems like an impossibility that a CREATOR would not be wise enough to NEVER CREATE EVIL in the first place.... which in turns makes a Christian God either a hypocrite or just stupid enough to not possibly be brilliant enough to create anything.

WE are responsible for it all....... not God.... us humans..... IMHO again, we should stop blaming him and we should stop giving him all the credit..... we can't do it both ways.......

I know my personal life got better when I gave up on a Christian God.

Brad

32

Do you struggle to find truth in anything religious these days?

by Samdownunder in

i was just interested to see how you feel out there.

ive been thinking a lot about all the lies and wasted time and frustration ive went through for so long now, and i cant help but wonder if anything i ever believed in is real.

obviously the watchtower has lied and conned us all for years now, but who else along the way has changed the bible and who were the men who compiled it, and their motives?

outbutnotdown

Wow!!!!! A couple of days late, but I'm surprised at the friction between Little Toe and itsallgoodnow.

itsallgoodnow....... for what it's worth I have come to respect both of your opinions, but I have come to the conclusion that LT is somewhat passive aggressive............... he seems to aggressively go to lengths to remove himself from a situation that is confrontational but only after he has planted the seed to cause or at least carry on the possible confrontation. We all have that trait in us a bit but it comes out more in some than others. THAT trait about him, to me, is annoying and frustrating, but his general ideas seem to me to be fair and objective.

LT........ itsallgoodnow is gorgeous..... what are you doing?... trying to scare her off of men in the REAL world..........please don't. But seriously, LT, I think my assessment of your passive aggressiveness is substantiated, but I'm not suggesting that there is anything "wrong" with you. We all have certain tendencies that the "wise" psychologists and psychiatrists have been so kind that they have given these "normal" human instincts TITLES, in order for us more judgemental people to codemn them, thereby creating an illusion that we are superior, in OUR own minds. I probably don't know yet some of my greatest weaknesses so I am all ears. However, itsallgoodnow has, more recently than you and I, removed herself from the JW bondage and she is more prone to react in a way to, at all costs, keep herself free from that worse JW lifestyle, so I understand your comments as well that were of a negative nature to her.

In general, I'm just trying to shed some light and hopefully a little humour on the subject.

Love you both, and cheers to you both and me!!!!!!

Brad

46

reason on this....

by myelaine in

jw
friends

i just wanted to share something with you that i believe is very important.

2 tim 3:16 states: all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of god may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

now we are told that in every thing we do, every day of our lives we can turn to gods word to help us, to equip us, to feed us for every good work.

outbutnotdown

LT,

I thought I was being fair to her.

My comment was more of a generalization of the effects that we have on ourselves when we make mkistakes or use poor judgements and in no way was I suggesting that she is any more "guilty" than me or anyone else.

However, I do think that it is not logical for her to say that she doesn't feel guilty about what she did. All things being relative, could she feel so liberated by "confessing" it if it wasn't, first of all, an error in judgement? IMHO, that is not possible.

Brad

46

reason on this....

by myelaine in

jw
friends

i just wanted to share something with you that i believe is very important.

2 tim 3:16 states: all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of god may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

now we are told that in every thing we do, every day of our lives we can turn to gods word to help us, to equip us, to feed us for every good work.

outbutnotdown

Michelle,

That's some pretty heavy stuff you had to unburden yourself of. I, like Derek, don't want to give you the impression that I am lacking in empathy, but I tend to have a little different opinion of how and why you feel differently after "confessing" your lie. IMO, you, like every other human, has an in-bred (or God-given.... if you choose to call it that :) ) ability to know and understand the most basic positive and negative feelings and effects in our lives. Whether you choose to call that a belief in God is your option, but it still makes it "real".

I feel that you likely do feel guilty about the big lie that you told. It was a very unfair thing to do. To cheat on your husband was one thing but then to selfishly USE him to benefit yourself was another matter entirely. Your confessing of that lie lifted that "guilt" that was hanging over your head. Good for you for doing it...... I'm sure it's what EVERY person involved needed to hear, esp. your son and husband... when you tell him.

But, the main point is that YOU freed yourself of that pain. At the risk of sounding like the "God" of the Bible, live the rest of your life to the fullest and be kind AND FAIR to all of mankind.

Brad

44

If You Could Say One Last Thing Before You Die

by dh in

jw
friends

what words would you choose to be immortalised by?

outbutnotdown

It wouldn't be too funny, but I would remind my kids that life is what we make of it and in the words of Bono, of U2, "Don't let the bastards grind you down."

Brad

11

Kidnapping children from the non-jw parents, was there a trend?

by Netty in

jw
friends

this happened a few times, back in the 70's, in the congregation that i went to.

there were a few families who were jw's, divorced and remarried, had (physical anyway) custody of their children, but the divorced spouse was non-believing and wanted their rights to the children.. one family, when the father of the children went to court to get custody of the kids, picked up and fled the country.

we later learned they were in costa rica.

outbutnotdown

Alamb,

You're dead on with the assessment of how the WT fascilitates dysfunctional families. My ex mother-in-law would be (and is, when she has any encounters with the rest of the world... which she obviously tries to avoid) recognized as being a VERY screwed up and even psychotic person if it weren't for the protectionism of their followers, by the WTBTS.

IMO, it's truly one of the unfortunate things about democracy. People are allowed to "hide" their mental disorders by joining an organization whose entire make-up is delusional in itself.

I think you have pm'd me in the past, but if you want any help or advice with my situation, feel free to do so again. It's sad that my kids and I have had to go through what we have but I firmly believe in learning from the misfortune and also helping others at the same time.

Brad

11

Kidnapping children from the non-jw parents, was there a trend?

by Netty in

jw
friends

this happened a few times, back in the 70's, in the congregation that i went to.

there were a few families who were jw's, divorced and remarried, had (physical anyway) custody of their children, but the divorced spouse was non-believing and wanted their rights to the children.. one family, when the father of the children went to court to get custody of the kids, picked up and fled the country.

we later learned they were in costa rica.

outbutnotdown

When I was about 11 years old, my parents hid my friend at our house, from his father. His mother had just recently been ~~converted~~ brainwashed into Jwism and his father was against it. I never did meet his father, but thinking back on it, I imagine that the way that I was told to think about him was unfair.

It is sad that these things happened back then and I imagine that they still do sometimes, but thankfully, like was mentioned, the laws make it tougher for people to get away with that now.

Unfortunately, it seems that now the Witnesses try to do it in different ways (keep the kids from the non-JW). I am going through a divorce right now and my ex mother-in-law has called The Children's Aid Society on me 7 times (all not substantiated), and even took my four year-old daughter to the doctor and told her to tell the doctor ,"Daddy pushed my peepee in", and my daughter also told me that her nanny (my ex mother-in-law) hurt her in the genital area with her knee.

I don't believe in a Christian type of God but I do have a great deal of faith in the simple fact that "good" people do fair better in the long run than "bad" people do, so I know that the truth will come out in the end, and that my daughter will heal as well, but it makes me SICK that people can be so cruel, supposedly "in the name of Jesus and God." My mother-in-law is a greatly respected pioneer in her Kingdom Hall and I even went to an elder that I ~~have~~ had always respected, only to have him tell me that he spoke to my ex mother-in-law and she said it was none of his business, and he left it at that.

Unbelievable, that the head of her Kingdom Hall is informed of her allegedly assaulting a 4 year-old and trying to frame me, and yet ONLY BECAUSE SHE IS A JW and THEIR DELUSIONAL BELIEF THAT THEY CAN DO NO WRONG, it is left alone, without any probing!!!!!

It makes me glad as hell that I am no longer a JW, since it may be that I would be that screwed up too, in that religion, that I could potentially do a similar thing.

Thanks for listening...... Brad