Posts by Ocean1111

42

She is Going to Talk to the Elders About My Questions...What Should I Expect?

by HeyThere in

so one of my in-laws, a born in dub, started asking me questions about the issues i am having with the religion.

so i told her, rather carefully, how i discovered all the child pedophile cases, went over some of the case details, explained it is occurring all over the world, so isn't just some random misunderstanding, but is widespread hiding of child sex u all abuse.

she was horrified.

Ocean1111

@villagegirl

Your welcome. you might ask these questions as well which I get an answer to sometimes, but never the right one. This is because the basic answer actually is the apostasy is present from the top, it is leadership apostasy the Bible speaks of, not the man on the street, that is the main distraction.

There was a person I knew who was afraid of confronting the elders. So I said ask everything as legitimate questions and concerns to get the questions into their own heads, and let them sit in their own heads, don't affirm or deny the questions, keep them as if you are pondering the issues yourself. This happened to be a woman who was well versed in the foundational JW teachings on prophecy.

Prophecy is a good place to ask questions, because they are usually historic in detail rather than morals and dogma, they hinged on world events as history in many places in JW theology. Prophecy is a good place for questions because some JWs do examine it. The point being to inject valid questions into the elder Bethelobotimized skull.

But literally these are questions many have actually had, that Bethel has no satisfying answer for. The other basic answer is Bethel cover-up, they are covering up their own apostasy and prophecies that detail it at Daniel 11:30-32, 8:11-13, 23a.

>>>

Why have Jehovah's witnesses stopped tracking modern international developments since the third United Nations placement of 1990 saying such a milestone towards world government is not prophetic or even significant?

Why does Bethel only ambiguously mention world government, but implies it is not prophetic?

Why doesn't Bethel detail the final third and fourth UN progression easily seen in prophecy and world events since 1990?

Why did Bethel join the UN third placement development as UN NGO rather than start exposing these details?

How is a failed/bankrupt USSR supposed "King North" also a valid global "ruler of the silver and the gold" in Daniel 11:42-43?

How did a defunct USSR supposed "King North" also "prove successful until the denunciation comes to a finish" at Daniel 11:36? How can a national bloc failure, also be successful?

On Daniel 8:13-14

How can "organizational adjustments" that actually increased corporate seizure away from the congregations independence be called a "right condition" temple purification? Is it not more "profanation" that occurred at that time? (1938-1944).

How is congregational independence a "transgression causing desolation" at Daniel 8:13? Isn't the UN NGO more likely a "transgression"?

Since when does apostasy not apply to the leadership? In the Sanhedrin? In the Papacy? In the Governing Body? Are they not really the same thing, human intermediation claiming divine authority?

How is the "faithful and discreet slave" (2012) or the "Governing Body" (1976) in itself not "lifting themselves over everyone" when obviously such teachings are literally a self exaltation? (in reference to 2Thess2:3-4)

How is "Christendom" the "holy place" today, when in fact the first FIFTY years of the JW ministry was saying Christendom is NOT the "holy place"? How can a claim to being the "holy place" be the "holy place" in prophecy, which is not a claim but a "place", as Bethel implies illogically?

Those last questions will probably send the elder back to catch up on what JWs were supposedly believe with some needed research, as JWs in general have been dumbed-down severely.

In fact everything points to the fact Bethel is diverting attention from their true condition: Classic Apostasy from the top.

14

Jehovah Witness Governing Body gets 'wakeup call' - "The internal church process followed here was awful." - SNAP Media Statement

by Sol Reform in

jehovah witness governing body gets 'wakeup call' - "the internal church process followed here was awful.

" - snap media statement.

given the mean-spirited treatment by jw officials, it's a miracle that sewell's victims are willing to cooperate with the secular justice system.

Ocean1111

Soon JWs will need 15 lawlers to print up on tract from wordpress. No joke.

But I anticipate Bethel will "call the preachign work to an end" by their own mandate, to sort of finish the coup they started in 1976.

The rest of the JW assets will get tied up behind armies of national lawyers.

The "preaching work" will end, but not for the reasons JWs will initially be told.

Most of the heavy lifting will happen in the first two years from a noteworthy event or statement from Bethel to the effect the "preaching has ended", or both, in my opnion.

I think many JWs and even their critics are not seeing that Bethel is going down with purposeful aid from within, and that is what is also unique about the Bethel operation.

Few take the Bethel "red flags" and hypocrisy to their logical conclusion and climax, attempting a permanent end to the JW ministry over a number of years of downfall, aided by Bethel's internal "priests", globally.

33

Just came across this jw comment on the interweb, what do you think?

by disposable hero of hypocrisy in

jw
friends

we are up for a new kind of persecution in the future.

a new form that was unheard of for us.

in australia, disfellowshipped and dissasociated are planning on suing jw for emotional and mental hardship for being cast out completely.

Ocean1111

True.

Part of the overall ramifications of an organizational set of policies that touch deeply into people's lives open the organization to litigation and other forms of "blowback" in the future.

The fact is ordering and threatening people to "obey" is the legal evidence to establish this guilt, it is in writing and practice in the Bethel organization.

Now if these things have led to people dying (blood command of the organization will take legal precedent), getting raped and abused (pedophile database and org aiding and abetting), and being psychologically tortured (shunning as a org command), then in time the national jurisdictions will be able to swoop in for the kill and booty when it becomes more necessary (financially) in the coming days.

But as we note, BETHEL are the very ones who set up back then, the later potential for attack! It is already programmed into the system to aid global deconstruction of the Bethel corps, it is as if the GB was helping destroy the organization gradually from within.

And this is enabled by the "disfellowshipping" system of an overkill. It is the 1980 based, fanatical elder arrangement and it's fomenting "Bethel inquisition" that is the guilt of Bethel, by it's own hand, they even define their own liability, in writing and implemented policy under coercion. If one did not take part in the Bethel crimes, one is censured themselves, it is a self-destructive cycle in any sense.

The cure would be to simply respect people's own conscience, and as Christian or not, LET PEOPLE MAKE THEIR OWN DECISION, not that of the proxy "GB conscience" which is as good as seared road kill, obviously NOTHING is beyond justification of the GB so-called "collective conscience". (But as we see, the "hyper holy" Bethel drug has also infected many JWs who justify these crimes as "protections". In JWs the true victim of the Bethel "inquisition" "deserves it". So JWs are cleverly controlled by their own "spiritual superiority complex" to aid the Bethel spiritual criminals.)

In fact the Bethel downfall of the years it will take to re-allocate that corporate complex is so well set-up, we wonder is it really just random and accidental? It seems to have signs of "intelligent design" from within, to have set-up such a guaranteed re-alignment from without.

In my opinion the legal and financial tsunami headed for Bethel will in time tie up the whole mess globally in various ways as other countries exercise their legal rights, that Bethel lawlessness will fully allow access to in the courts. But remember, it is Bethel that set up these bulls-eyes upon their own system, not JWs in general who just get dragged into the crimes one way or another.

Bethel is it's own worst enemy, Bethel is it's own definition of apostasy. It's almost too well hidden in plain sight.

42

She is Going to Talk to the Elders About My Questions...What Should I Expect?

by HeyThere in

so one of my in-laws, a born in dub, started asking me questions about the issues i am having with the religion.

so i told her, rather carefully, how i discovered all the child pedophile cases, went over some of the case details, explained it is occurring all over the world, so isn't just some random misunderstanding, but is widespread hiding of child sex u all abuse.

she was horrified.

Ocean1111

What will happen? "deny everthing, claim everything, explain nothing". Standard formula for UN organizations and the Watchtower Secret Society and it's "mystery priesthood" the sinners in the "Governing Body".

You might ask more questions:

1. Why has Bethel liquidated over at least a billion in real-estate and investment assets globally in just four years?

A: The end is near, they know the end (of Bethel) is near!

2. Are not "non-governmental organizations" (UN NGO) co-promoting and endorsement agencies so says Wiki and the UN itself? Why did Bethel endorse, rather than explain, the third United Nations global presentation in 1990?

A: We needed a library card.

3. Who owns the Bethel corporations? Who are actually in the "Watchtower Society"? Why is it all, like the UN NGO, so secretive?

A: That's a secret.

4. World researchers and geo-political anaysts and UN critics like Ron Paul project a minimum 10 year coming phase for this next financial cycle alone, and an eventual financial sector "world government". Why does Bethel act as if it is going to end tomorrow?

A: The world is misled.

5. Whose going to get the billions when Bethel self-implodes? Are derivatives going to protect Jehovah's witnesses interests?

A: We trust the Governing Body has looked into it.

6. Right or worng, Bethel policies stumble now more people everyday from the Web alone, than come into "the truth". Aren't Jehovah's witnesses sharing now in a similar "bloodguilt" due to those couple thousand a day understanding Bethel global criminal activity in the spiritual and sometimes secular dimension?

A: We shall convene a judical committe to answer your questions, good day!

==

And that is the true Bethel state: Classic Apostasy from the top.

36

New Member Story

by No Retreat No Surrender in

jw
friends

when i found out "ttat" i felt like muhammad ali when joe frazer knocked him down in their first fight in the 15th round.

the ref came over grab my gloves and looked me in the eyes and asked me "are you ok, can you continue" and then gave me the standing 8 count.

no it didn't knock me out but it staggered me.

Ocean1111

Like the first century Christians who in time morphed into the Catholic "organization" there is a turning point when a faith becomes a cult. This pattern already happened in both branches of Israel's tribal split, in time "organizational" changes occurred, and one could worship Tammuz at the temple of YHWH at Jerusalem.

So it does not take a real detective to know things repeat and have cycles that define the repetition, there really is "nothing new under the sun".

So when battling the cult of Bethel and it's cult of the Watchtower Secret Society and their "mystery priesthood" in the Governing Body it is good to know a little about this cycle of what is really the core of the term "apostasy". Apostasy in the Bible or in the mafia is a falling away from the faith. But it is most substantial when the leadership falls away from the faith just like in Israel or in early Christianity. That is the core of the pattern of defection.

So 1976 truly marks the turning point in Jehovah's witnesses. Statistically the ministry was at an all time high, so it was time to "fix" it, and the GB knew just how to truly "fix" the faith. It became a cult based on a human intermediary, that by previous acceptance as scriptural, soon became the "lords of the faith" with the power of spiritual death one would believe, if they believed these were the "lords of the faith" by divine mandate.

But in fact it is a corporate mandate to seize control of what was quickly well on the way to a multi-billion dollar religious empire. All was lost, the Bethel Titanic looked the same, smelled the same, sounded the same, but it went off course oh so subtly.

Well one thing leads to another and 15 years later "spiritual Israel" by it's "Government Body" spiritually joined the UN NGO "wildbeast" and simply slid by the third UN manifestation in 1990 as if the USSR never fell and the "new world order" never arose, simply fully ignoring the implications this would have on Daniel 11 "King North" interpretation.

In keeping with the status quo the UN toting Governing Body decided upon more ultra-conservatism for "doctrinal unity" and the Bethel thing hit the iceberg, JWs slept through it, it has just started.

In the same manner as the former everything looks the same, but in fact it has morphed as other faith systems have now fully, even the leadership seems to not recognize they too "ride the wildbeast", and worse, from those "who claim to see".

So that really is the statistical and evidentiary 1976 "epicenter" of the Bethel disaster captained by the "Governing Body" experiment. Prior to that Jehovah's witnesses had as much claim to a faith as any Christian as anybody.

Now by JWs own rules, not that of others, they are a GB centered cult, but it had a slow transition (Dan8:12; 2Cor11:13-15) and it slowly morphed while becoming the "back drop" for almost 40 years in the common JW life and mindset. JWs now listen with their eyes, if it looks like the same old ship, with the smooth visual captains, they think everything is fine. It's the same laughing gas, repeated over and over, it really sounds the same, but it is a recording now.

But in retrospect it is not the average JW, or the faith, it is the "Governing Body" that is the root of the corruption, just as it was with the Sanhedrin or the Papacy, it is the exact same "supreme synod" that has subverted the whole JW faith, it is the same pattern, it is repeating. And not for nothing, the corporate connections and authorities are who will bilk JW for BILLIONS of dollars in assets is also present. So it has an incentive as well. A well known human incentive of greed as well as power.

It is the same cycle and like the previous cycles of apostasy it will equate to the same thing, disaster, organizational disaster for JWs and it will be permitted, even required by God (Dan8:13), as it was in all time's past for people with faith. But at least we know the similar disasters coming for other religious organizations has the same root as JWs, allowing a human control center to assume divine proportions and position, and from that Pied Piper "body" the pockets are lined as the sheep are fleeced, but the GB are beyond any other religious organization in finding every red cent to milk out before they go - they are true "organizational" experts of overkill.

In it's own way JWs and Bethel will become more a story of what NOT to do, than any semblance of "faith" as it is described in the Bible, the Bible Bethel claims to represent, but instead they do Atlanta Visitors Center commercials and plug corporate orgs and products as well as any mainstream media. JWs are done, they just don't know it yet as they are the ones now shining the brass of the Bethel Titanic.

But 1976 is when in went off course, and 1990 is when they hit the UN iceberg. Before then JWs had as much right as anyone else to attempt to "exercise faith" and make the public claim as all religions do in some way now.

23

1914 vs 2014

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

it's amazing to examine the watchtower of 1914 now in 2014... 100 years later.. .

here are some of my comments on the watchtower of 1914:.

second article in january 1st.

Ocean1111

They are priming the JW mind in every way, including the "centennial" to cover up reality when Bethel's end, not the world's, comes soon. This way they can butcher the Bethel billions, zip off to their Swiss chatues and JWs will think "it is prophecy fulfilling brothers!".

They will cancel the JW ministry by Bethel "Papal bull" before they go.

It will center on a high profile event.

All my opinions, but ti is obvious it is more than just "organiational hypocrisy", JWs are being set up for something, and it is not the premature "the end of the world", but the end of Bethel as it is known to JWs.

2014 is just the perfect frame of reference for the already deluded and primed JW mind to make it more believable if something should develop this year or within the timing so the Gb can sell "the end" of Bethel as the "the end" of the world and JWs will be none the wiser left holding an empty bag and the GB pie in the face.

Tough organizational times are coming for the average JW.

I believe Bethel's lawless days are numbered from within. I think one should help JWs as individuals after this occurs, for they are really going to be some of the the biggest victims of the overall operation when it really implodes and it's last couple years. It is the Bethel leaders who are the purposeful operators. JWs just empower their billions and their cover.

28

Germany loses 22 congregations and 41 KHs in 3 years (2011-2014)

by Viva la Vida in

jw
friends

i just compared the latest data provided by the german wt and data i found searching for the same page in archive.org.

congregations 2011: 2232. congregations 2014: 2210. kh 2011: 1075. kh 2014: 1034. source: http://www.jehovaszeugen.de/statistik.18.0.html - this is a oficial site for germany.

.

Ocean1111

If we look at the complex global Bethel system, we understand a contraction can take place with an expansion in even regional terms. Thus Bethel can sell JWs the bare minimum 2% growth rate, but actually be covering up even a 5% contraction loss rate, and in certain places it will still be growing as part of how the system dynamic plays out.

In reality there is no justification of the Bethel begging and stealing money from the congreagtions, they do not have the real growth to require such an outlay, in fact they are probably actually in contraction and performing a final liquidation operation before the corporate transformation.

There are many ominous red flags from Bethel in the last couple years, like the billion in asset liquidation and reduction of global Bethel by maybe nearing 50%. It's more likely they are sucking every last drop of liquid assets out of the place, positioning the org for derivatives over exposure, and planning to vacate with those billions leaving duped JWs holding an emty bag, even losing their individual Kingdom halls within two years of corporate ground zero of Bethel.

Most JWs and most of their critics go with the designed first reaction, which is the first distraction, and none of those people will figure out what just happened for probably 3 to 5 years. Bethel will take atleast two years to be fully deconstructed and recieved into control of other legal entities to oversee the rest of the process that would play out another 5 years minimum.

In fact an operation this well done, must be planned and carried out by experts of subversion and confidence gaming, not the average hypocrite Christian, they are just the marks, and aids of the process in my opinion, that is what I feel is really going on, a corporate super-coup to finish off the JW organization for good, a planned affair, and a very profitable one at that, hugely profitable.

87

How is the org really run? What goes on behind the scenes?

by Magnum in

how is the org really run?

what goes on behind the scenes?.

i just read an older post on this site that was recently bumped (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/6600/1/don-adams-biography) the post mentioned the adams brothers don, karl, & joel and how influential they are/were at headquarters.

Ocean1111

If you reverse engineer the WT "fruitage" and what they do not say, their ommissions, you will find out the basic motive of the operation now at work in the modern WT since espcially 1976.

By that you can logically determine how it is run, as a dictatorship in the "body", and it's goal in part is to subvert the mindset by subverting the teachings gradually. That goes along with the ommission of certain modern aspects of global development.

I say the ommission is important, because in classic JW ministerial "message" development the JWs played on modern events in the world, like the League of Nations and UN presentations, to form their "kingdom of God" rationale around.

Thus JWs used to be able to mix modern events and prophecy where one was supporting the credibility of the other, and each had their own logic regarding world rulership development.

Modern JWs have not said ANYTHING about the UN development since it's 1945 manifestation. That is a hint of what they are ommiting over the last say 40 years, anything having to do with actual UN development. Instead they literally are rewording the JW past, and selling it to JWs as the present. In just the last 4 years they have liquidated a billion in assets, and reduced the Bethel global network of branches by maybe 50%, and they are ommitting all this from the logic of what it more likely is, a liquidation.

If we projected this, and their "it can end anyday now brothers" mindset installed in the collective JW head, the writing on the wall says corporate coup. We have to realize like JWs, most people go with their first reaction, and it is designed into the operation. The first reaction contains the primary distraction. So instead, by examining alternative motives possibly at work, by experts of subversion assumed, we can find other possible "end game" scenarios for Bethel.

Their fruitage indicates not Christian, but anti-Christian leadership. Thus any distraction of their claims does not deflect deeper investigation, lie is what lairs do, and Bethel is a classic team of deniers and grandiose statement hoodwinkers.

These obvious problems will be covered up to JWs by engineering the mass false expectation as "it is prophetic brothers!", so JWs can watch and take part in the Bethel corporate downfall and think? It is prophecy. It is expected. It is good. It is "the end". But it is not good, nor is it the end, but of Bethel.

These kinds of developments cannot be accidental with this level of complexity and coverage. Thus finding out how the org is really run, is impossible in explicit terms, one has to model between the lines. In that place things do not look good for the JW org. JWs are blinded to it, by what they think is "opening their eyes", misapplied prophecy and believing expert liars.

If we compared today's globalization ignoring JWs to the 1950's live and real-time responding JWs, we will find today's JWs are not the same creature as the 1950s JW version, not at all, in fact in many ways the complete opposite, just man and "organization" worshipers instead taking part in the subversion, teaching dated insights.

This was a very gradually subverted ministry, and a very gradually successful operation. But it is not what it appears to either most JWs or their critics, it is also good at what it is doing, it is an expertly implemented operation. Nothing this well conceived and carried out is accidental.

12

the JW 1914/WWI connection doesn't make sense

by Magnum in

jws always touted wwis beginning in 1914 as evidence that the kingdom was born in heaven in that year.

i was told that since satan was cast out of heaven, he started stirring up trouble on earth - like wwi.

but theres one problem with that wwi started some months before oct 1914 (the month when the kingdom was supposedly born).. i asked jws about that in the mid 1980s, and i was told that satan started wwi before oct 1914 to divert attention away from the birth of the kingdom.

Ocean1111

I think this minutia distracts from the more basic historic pattern of the development of world government.

1. WW1 did resolve to birth a League of Nations globalist world government foundation in 1919.

2. WW2 also resolved into another UN world government rendition in 1945.

3. Cold WW3 also resolved into the UN "new world order" presentation in 1990.

4. Now GWOT can go into phase 2, WW4, and also resolve into full world government in the future. (In a way the "global war" "on terror" is already WW4 inception, by basic definition of "global war")

So it is the WW1 inception of this cyclic use of global conflict, to resolve into a world government advancement, that is really the basic historic truth of 1914, when the cycles started.

Propehcy really is neither here nor there as regards the basics of the progression of world government - world government development has commenced with that intent, regardless of prophecy, in it's fundamental reality. (not saying prophecy doesn't foretell it, but that even without prophecy, world government has a well known history and inception.)

The final cycle (4) will obviously, by historic precedent and simple intuition, resolve into world government.

50

OMG the Watchtower IS toast!

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

the waters are drying up!

a congregation of 110+ publishers will be contributing only $200 a month to the society in the new kingdom hall construction arrangement.

that's less than $2 a publisher!

Ocean1111

Within three years JWs will be fighting to even keep their kingdom halls, Bethel will implode, it is by design. Even if they did keep a hall or two, the central "mother org" will be gone.