Posts by OneEyedJoe

36

A Non J-Dub paying a visit to KingDumb Hall!

by J-DUBBED in

i was thinking of doing a pop-in visit when they're doing their thing(what ever that might be).

to just see what it is that lures and hooks people, like our son.

i was worried there is some sort of subliminal messages in audio or video that start to brain-wash a person.

OneEyedJoe

I would suggest that you try to mend your relationship before you start questioning jw doctrine. You need to try to get access to his genuine personality, not his cult personality. Fix your relationship now, and when he inevitably tries to recruit you, go slow and try to make your interest seem genuine and just ask lots of questions. Don't make it obvious that you've done a lot of research to find scriptures that go contrary to jw doctrine - just adj questions when the inconsistencies present themselves. For example, they love to rag on the Pharisees and their many rules for everyday minutiae, but they themselves make lots of unscriptural rules for everyday things. Facial hair being forbidden is a good example.

Be prepared for a slow process - if you rush it, you'll do more harm than good.

28

We're not dealing with sincere anointed who genuinely believe their teachings but scam artists

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

looking at all the doctrinal teachings over the last five years, it's almost impossible for any person of conscience who originated such doctrine to do a complete u-turn and change it when the passage of time has proved beyond doubt that doctrine is no longer credible.. i say this with reference to the generation of 1914. they were so sure.

it was part of the awake!

masthead for decades that those who saw the events of 1914 would also see the great tribulation.. .

OneEyedJoe

As I heard from one elder when another elder brought up the overlapping generation change: "they had to change it because it was obviously wrong - they're [the 1914 generation] all dead"

They're just making it up as they go along - there was a lack of a "sense of urgency" on account of the 1995 and 2008 generation changes, so they cooked the numbers to work out a way to create a deadline that is much closer. I think they probably genuinely believe that God is guiding them, but most of the doctrinal changes are pragmatic - miscellaneous random changes to keep the r/f paying attention and bigger changes that are driven by the passage of time, changing laws, etc.

35

Hello!

by mikeypants in

jw
friends

wanted to say hello to you all.

i am new to the forum and just wanted to introduce myself.

i was raised a witness, never baptized (yay) and am married to a lovely baptized witness of jehovah.. i had been trying to get back into it due to both our families being j dbs but just never could get it into my heart.

OneEyedJoe

No, I'm not DF'd yet. I've only been "awake" to the full reality of the cult that I was raised in for about 8 months now (doesn't even feel like it's been that long). Until that point, I was essentially an atheist in spirit just going along with the JW thing on the off chance that they where right. I had a lot going on in my life so I didn't take the time to examine things. Right now I'm in the process of trying to slowly drift away (which is very difficult with my wife and her in-laws acting as a boat anchor) and wake my wife up. Still not sure how I'm going to work that out, and progress has been slow.

Skeeter has a good idea...you might start the process of waking up your wife by investigating the blood policy using your impending fatherhood as an excuse. Part of the excuse could easily be the incomprehensible allowance of some fractions and not others, and you want to make sure that she's educated and prepared on what you guys will accept for her or your child. In addition to the link skeeter gave, there's some good information on jwfacts that you could use, and a terriffic resource would be the thread (link below) that cofty started a while back on the topic.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/medical/273265/1/My-Explanation-of-Why-They-Got-it-Wrong-About-Blood-Using-Only-the-NWT

26

If You Don't Believe In God Anymore, Do You Still Say God Bless You or Thank God, etc.?

by minimus in

jw
friends

honestly, do you??

and if you do, isn't that hypocritical!.

OneEyedJoe

Sorry, one eyed, that is just having your cake and eating too.

How so? I don't pray with any expectation that it will cause any divine intervention, but with the expectation that it will help me not worry about things I can't control and allow me to "talk out" my problems even if there's no one to talk to.

I suspect most people have observed this, but it happens to me at work quite frequently as I'm trying to solve a problem. If something's not working like I expect, I'll walk over to a colleague and explain the problem that I'm having. Often, before my colleague says so much as a single word, the answer I seek will come to me. Did my colleague solve the problem for me?

The same goes with prayer. Sometimes I'll essentially talk to an immagined entity that is not present, either out loud or mentally, and the solution to a problem will present itself. The simulation of a conversation often causes you to anticipate questions that a different person might ask (maybe not the questions that you'd ask) and that can often lead you to the solution to a problem.

Is this somehow proof that god exists? No more so than my other experiences prove that all my work colleagues are telepathic.

26

If You Don't Believe In God Anymore, Do You Still Say God Bless You or Thank God, etc.?

by minimus in

jw
friends

honestly, do you??

and if you do, isn't that hypocritical!.

OneEyedJoe

I bet that if some of you who do not believe in God were in a life and death situation, you might pray to God to please intervene.

Ahh, the ol' there are no atheists in foxholes argument. I'll admit that I sometimes "pray" but it's only with the purpose to calm my thoughts and focus my mind. I doubt you'll find many ahteists that deny the power that prayer has to calm someone, relieve stress, focus the mind, and accept the things in life that are out of our control. Even as an atheist that is 100% conviced that there's no god in any meaningful sense, I'd be foolish to completely neglect the benifits that can come from talking to yourself in a prayer-like fashion.

35

Hello!

by mikeypants in

jw
friends

wanted to say hello to you all.

i am new to the forum and just wanted to introduce myself.

i was raised a witness, never baptized (yay) and am married to a lovely baptized witness of jehovah.. i had been trying to get back into it due to both our families being j dbs but just never could get it into my heart.

OneEyedJoe

Welcome aboard. When I was at the zone meeting, I was thinking to myself "we're going to see a lot of new members on JWN because of this" and sure enough there have been a few trickling in.

You'll find that there are a number of folks here in a situation similar to yours - dealing with a spouse that's in while you're waking up to TTATT. You're certainly not alone, and there's a lot of support here. You've definitely got a leg up on me, having never been baptized - I was born-in and almost made it, but at a weak, emotional point in my life my father pushed just the right button and I got dunked at 19. One more year and I would've been out of the house and could've had a normal life. Since you were never baptized, you may have better luck waking up your wife and keeping your kids out since she would've had to be a little lacking in faith to marry you in the first place.

Keep learning, and vent your frustration here so you don't blow up on your wife. Go slow in dealing with your wife, don't just dump all you learn on her in one big go. Best of luck to you in your journey!

29

Family Gathering ( or the day also known as Thanksgiving)

by Theredeemer in

jw
friends

every year on a certain thursday in november my family and close witness friends would get together, eat menudo ( hispanic stew) and other foods, watch football and then get dressed to go to the meeting.. sister so and so would bring her famous pie, bro and sister so and so would bring their gross punch and bro and sis so and so would bring mexican sweet bread.

sometimes we would go to "worldy" aunt's and pick up plates of turkey and fixins.. this was every year on a certain date, on a certain thursday in november.. this continued until my mom got alzheimers.

by that time i was married and had my own house.

OneEyedJoe

Yep, it's absolutely indefensible considering their stance on birthdays and christmas. If you sat around (tree or not) giving gifts on christmas day, that's a no-no, but having family over on thanksgiving for a huge meal involving turkey, cranberry sauce, pumpkin pie and mashed potatoes is fine just as long as you don't go around the table saying what you're thankful for.

In my family, we'd use the loophole of doing it on the friday after thanksgiving. But by that logic, celebrating christmas would be fine since it actually falls a couple days after the winter solstice.

26

If You Don't Believe In God Anymore, Do You Still Say God Bless You or Thank God, etc.?

by minimus in

jw
friends

honestly, do you??

and if you do, isn't that hypocritical!.

OneEyedJoe

I never say "god bless you" because of my jw upbringing. I do say god damnit and Jesus Christ ( or if I'm really mad, Jesus f***ing christ) a healthy amount. I don't see it as hypocritical, is just a speech pattern picked up from my environment - no different than an accent or like people in Texas that say ya'll.

That's the same reasoning I used when I was still an indoctrinated jw to excuse saying good luck to someone.

20

Elders: Born-Ins vs Recruits

by breakfast of champions in

this is an unofficial survey.. was curious as to the number of currently serving elders who were born-in and/or raised as jw versus those who were "recruited"( i.e, not born in or raised as jw.).

for instance, right now in the hall i am assigned to:.

2 elders were born-in and/or raised as jws.. 5 were not (recruited as adults).

OneEyedJoe

I don't think we should expect the ratio among elders to deviate from the general ratio among Witnesses. If 66% of Witnesses are born-ins (to make up a number), then 66% of elders should be born-ins. The way the religion works on the mind, a convert can be just as much a captive of the concept as a born-in.

Thinking about it, I actually wouldn't be surprised if converts where more likely to be elders, or atleast become elders early on. Often converts are recruited in a deeply vulnerable state and the cult fills some need in their life. As such, they're likely to "give back" more to it and therefore rise through the ranks pretty quickly. Born-ins on the other hand are more likely to see that being an elder is a thankless job and a huge time-suck. Born-ins are also more likely to be less zealous since the cult doesn't necessarily fill a need in their life, it's just sort of always been there. I've seen one or both of these factors cause born-ins to delay becoming an MS/Elder for many years on several occasions. I know of one that didn't become an elder until his 50s after his kids moved out - he even admitted to me once that he carefully limited his service time in order to avoid appointment. In contrast (anecdotal though it may be) the few male converts that where above the age of 30 that I've known have always risen through the ranks very quickly.

36

A Non J-Dub paying a visit to KingDumb Hall!

by J-DUBBED in

i was thinking of doing a pop-in visit when they're doing their thing(what ever that might be).

to just see what it is that lures and hooks people, like our son.

i was worried there is some sort of subliminal messages in audio or video that start to brain-wash a person.

OneEyedJoe

I don't know but I keep thinking there is a way I can "Fix" this. Wake him out of this bullshit.........

Maybe it's really out of our control. It really f'd up our family..........All from one f'd up Jehovah Wingnut Devil Woman.

There may be yet. At least you're likely to be able to mend things sufficiently that you could get back into communication again and that's the first step. To that end, going to a meeting may help, but you might be better off reaching out first and making ammends for any pain you may have caused, as steve2 said in your other thread. I really reccommend reading Steven Hassan's books - they're written precisely for people in your exact situation. It's a little more difficult for many of us who are in the cult and trying to get ourselves (and spouses/friends/family) out to implement some of Hassan's advice because the strongest strategy is to ask questions and once you're in there are questions that can't be asked. In your case, however, you can provide your son a view from the outside using Hassan's strategies. There's going to be a lot of work involved, as there is no silver bullet, and the first step is to repair the trust in your relationship with your son.