Posts by OneEyedJoe

11

Will the GB use the on going conflict with Muslim extremists as a sign of the end being near?

by adjusted knowledge in

jw
friends

i haven't read over much of the recent articles in the last decade from the wt.

i wonder if they will mention muslim extremists and use that fear as a control mechanism on their members.

i have a feeling they will resist mentioning islam specifically.

OneEyedJoe

They don't directly attack islam, but they have no qualms about using terrorism in their fear mongering to "prove" that we're in the last days.

28

If you're bothered by god murdering innocent children, you must have a "critical heart"

by OneEyedJoe in

this week's book study contains this gem:.

the way in which the bible is written serves to test what is in our heart.

hebrews 4:12 says: the word [or, message] of god is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit .

Cold steel - your post could be summed up as special pleading followed by appeal to consequences. None of which means I'm wrong - all I stated is that if your bothered by the brutal murder of children, you must have a "critical heart"

Basically - if you don't immediately accept that the Bible is infallible and God is perfect, you're not worthy of salvation. Put yourself in the shoes of a Buddhist that you're taking to about the virtues of Christianity - can you really expect them not to view the Bible critically when to them it's just "some book"? Could you really sell them a god that kills children and expect no push back? That's something I never could, and will never understand.

28

If you're bothered by god murdering innocent children, you must have a "critical heart"

by OneEyedJoe in

this week's book study contains this gem:.

the way in which the bible is written serves to test what is in our heart.

hebrews 4:12 says: the word [or, message] of god is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit .

OneEyedJoe

This week's book study contains this gem:

The way in which the Bible is written serves to test what is in our heart. Hebrews 4:12 says: “The word [or, message] of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit . . . and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” The Bible’s message pierces deep, revealing our true thinking and motives. Those who read it with a critical heart are often stumbled by accounts that do not contain enough information to satisfy them. Such ones may even question whether Jehovah really is loving, wise, and just.

So if you're bothered by genocide, or the murder of innocent infants, it's simply because you have a critical heart and aren't deserving of salvation.

A good comment for those unfortunate enough to attend:

Many atheists criticise the Bible and seek to cast Jehovah in a bad light, perhaps objecting to Jehovah's many commands to the Israelites to kill every man woman and child in certain surrounding nations. How wonderful it is that Jehovah had the Bible written in such a way that we can discern that anyone raising such criticism simply does not have the proper heart condition.

I'll be making every effort not to go, but if I do and can get called on, I'll give some variation of that comment on Thursday. Even while I was still in, I always had a problem with these sweeping ad hominem attacks and generalisations. It's pretty telling that they don't even allow consideration of criticism, and demonize any potential criticism in advance of even hearing it.

26

Scientists almost created life in a lab?!

by abiather in

the scientists at the scripps research institute, california, have almost succeeded in creating the world's first living organism with artificial dna!.

http://discovermagazine.com/2015/jan-feb/43-first-organism-with-artificial-dna.

http://www.scripps.edu/news/press/2014/20140507romesberg.html.

OneEyedJoe

I have explained it. I used terms such as racemic mixture, l-sterio isomer, enantiomer, soai reaction.
If you don't understand what these things are it's easy to look them up and do the research. I will repeat myself for your sake though. In nature most enantiomers are left handed, to form this homochiral mixture is necessary for life.
In a lab the mixture is racemic, there are equal left and right handed molecules. Life cannot form with these molecules.
This has nothing to do with avalanches.
In order for the correct mixture to form a catalyst is required, a catalyst guides the process, in nature there is an autocatalyst. This process is guided.

That doesn't have anything to do with whether or not humans have created life in a lab or not. Your initial comment (I think I quoted the wrong one, perhaps that's what threw you off when I asked the question) seemed to indicate that this particular achievement - life being created in a lab - was somehow indicative that life had to have been created by some intelligence. The logic behind that conclusion is what I was questioning. To me, this breaks down into:

People did x (i.e. people created life in a lab)

Therefore x never happens without intelligent intervention (i.e. life could not have happened if it weren't triggered by some intelligent creator).

The conclusion does not follow from the initial premise.

26

Scientists almost created life in a lab?!

by abiather in

the scientists at the scripps research institute, california, have almost succeeded in creating the world's first living organism with artificial dna!.

http://discovermagazine.com/2015/jan-feb/43-first-organism-with-artificial-dna.

http://www.scripps.edu/news/press/2014/20140507romesberg.html.

OneEyedJoe

This is enough evidence for me that the process is guided.

Please explain to me where I'm wrong with my earlier analogy. If this is evidence that life requires a guiding hand, how is a man-made avalanche not evidence that all avalanches require a guiding hand? What about man-made ponds? Is that evidence that all ponds require intelligent design?

I can sorta wrap my brain around why you think it might require some intelligence to kick things off, but I can't fathom why you would consider this as evidence (aside from confirmation bias).

9

HOW TO TURN A HOME BIBLE STUDY into an underground railway

by TerryWalstrom in

are you crazy?.

you find yourself 'awake' to the truth about the 'truth' and all you do about it.

is sulk?

OneEyedJoe

Aren't most jw's suspicious of old literature? don't their apostate bells go off?

Yep. Even showing my wife something straight out of WT library, she wanted to go to JW.org for the "latest information."

26

Scientists almost created life in a lab?!

by abiather in

the scientists at the scripps research institute, california, have almost succeeded in creating the world's first living organism with artificial dna!.

http://discovermagazine.com/2015/jan-feb/43-first-organism-with-artificial-dna.

http://www.scripps.edu/news/press/2014/20140507romesberg.html.

OneEyedJoe

thus would prove beyond any doubt that AN ORGANIZER was needed for the emergence of life in the first place,

False. This does not prove that life requires a sentient designer any more than the fact that humans can trigger an avalanche with explosives proves that avalanches require a sentient being to initiate them. This is simply humans doing in a few years what it took evolution billions of years to do.

13

Is the Watchtower Shifting All Financial and Legal Risk to Local Elders, are they 100% liable for Negligence?

by Trailer Park Pioneer in

what is the watchtower organization leaving behind for all the kingdom halls after their done siphoning them dry?

who is going to pay for a lawsuit or damages when some incompetent elders or three are busted for something very bad?

will the watchtower help or leave them alone for the sharks to shred to pieces?

OneEyedJoe

It certainly appears to be their goal to have the underlings take the fall for anything that happens going forward, but I suspect that given the truth of the matter and the abundance of leaked documents, any good lawyer could still connect the dots back to HQ.

The problem is that they want to have their cake and eat it too - they want to exert absolute control all the way down to the local level, but not be liable for anything that comes from this control. Until theirs some true autonomy to the circuits and congregations, they'll probably remain liable at least to some degree. Of course, they'll never surrender enough control to grant the congregations sufficient autonomy for that to happen.

Though, I'm not a lawyer and don't even play one on TV, so maybe someone who actually knows something will chime in. I'm just talking from the perspective of a potential jury member - it seems like it wouldn't be too difficult for a lawyer to show that the WTS still has it's hands in everything.

29

Feb Kingdom Ministry 2015: Irate Householders - why so angry?

by Trailer Park Pioneer in

feb kingdom ministry 2015, irate householders, "we don't apologize for our work", "did they hear rumors about jws"?

why so angry?

blood or disfellowshipping?.

OneEyedJoe

Both of these examples - blood and disfellowshipping - are 'hot button' issues for many of us who have left the JWs. So, in effect, the WTS is using these examples to identify potential 'dangerous' apostates to the publishers. And, directing the publishers to avoid these dangerous people. Most people who have had no or little contact with the JWs are almost completely unaware of the ramifications of these two doctrines.
The most likely arguments I encountered in field service, so many years ago, were about Xmas, Hallowe'en and birthdays.

This is a good point. I think you're on to something, this is just a warning to avoid apostates and inoculate the R/F by asserting in advance that anything critical of the org is untrue. If they were looking for an untrue accusation to use (a category that the objection to the policy on xmas, birthdays, etc clearly doesn't fall under) why wouldn't they use the "You don't believe in jesus" line. I've heard householders say that time and again, and from talking to other JWs, it seems quite common, at least in predominantly christian areas. Why not use that as an example?

Instead they use two subjects that few JWs can defend, and they certainly can't defend it if the householder presses the matter after they read their scripture. They also know that no one that raises the blood or dfing issues is ever going to become a study. It seems like the entire intent was just to say that anything bad is untrue, and to make JWs feel like they're in the right (we don't apologize). If I had to guess, I'd say probably only about 10% of JWs would actually attempt to defend anything to a critical HH, and those aren't likely to be swayed by anything. The other 90% are now effectively inoculated with the statement that criticism is untrue, so that once they've run away, they won't think twice about it. If you're going to attempt to perform such an inoculation, you're certainly better off doing it on the subject they're likely to encounter, assuming the average JW knows about it (why they don't mention the jesus isn't your mediator).

something else that's notable is that they did not mention anything about the pedophile suits going on - that's probably much more likely to be mentioned by a non-apostate HH. If their intent was for people to actually defend the org, they'd prepare them. Instead, it seems that they just want them to run away, and have "untrue rumors" ringing in their ears.

263

Poster country flags and privacy

by Simon in

the new forum originally had a little country flag next to each post showing the country that the post was made from based on the geoip encoding (the country the ip address is from).

before i switched over to the new site someone made an issue about it violating their privacy and i didn't want to complicate and confuse the switchover with policy debate at the same time as technical issues so removed the flags even though i disagreed.. someone has already requested it as a feature and i think it should be added back so i thought it's now time to open the discussion and get everyone's opinions.

first, the reason i think it should be shown:.

OneEyedJoe

In the example above, "Our local Bethel branch is closing down" already gives the country away (at least short-lists it but + timing = good degree of certainty) and really, they have already done a very good job of describing lots of personal details that could identify them. Adding the country does not.

Ok, well assuming that they didn't reveal that the local bethel was closing down, the country they're from could still take it to the point where they went from relatively anonymous to relatively identifiable. I personally don't care too much whether my country is revealed to everyone but I can see it being somewhat detrimental if it's included. It probably won't make a lick of difference for folks in the US, Mexico, Canada, etc, but for those that are in small countries with small JW populations, it makes things a little more risky, and that might push someone over the edge to the point that they're not willing to risk joining.

Sure, the fact that the flag is included next to each post might be a factor in what this theoretical person posted, but I wonder what benefits the community more - knowing the poster's country, or getting a slightly more personal version of their story (or getting it at all)?

Now, should someone who would do that be able to pretend to be a member of the community just like others? Would it have been better or worse if you could see whoever had been pretending to be your friend wasn't where they claimed? Something to make you suspicious and more guarded?

I suspect that anyone who's really intent on tracking someone down would likely A. Be from the same country anyway, and B. know how to use a proxy if they're not and want to make it appear so. This could well be a two-edged sword - maybe some will be exposed as liars based on their IP, but others may well be talked to more openly, not because of where they are, but because of their ability to use a proxy.

Another thing that I would point out (maybe it's been mentioned already, I'm not sure) is that having country flags next to each post might give the forum a distinctly nationalistic feel. normally not a problem, but if your goal is to get the occasional active JW to linger a while, it's probably best to avoid evoking any of the cult defense mechanisms with something that's relatively trivial.

It adds the posters context to the discussion, especially if it is about some cultural specific story (e.g. US gun control, Chinese aviation or whatever).

It's simple enough for someone to give the context if its necessary. The bulk of what's discussed on the forum is not in the context of a particular country, but in the context of the watchtower cult. Forcing everyone to give this context when only a few actually need to provide it seems a bit heavy-handed.

It shows up potential spammers / scammers - if someone is from China or Nigeria and they are claiming to be some grandmother from Wisconsin then you know there may be something up - yes, people can fake their location but why not raise the bar and make it more difficult for them ... Even if people aren't scammers, I don't see why we need to enable anyone to portray a false identity (e.g. claiming to be in the US when they are maybe in the UK).

If someone's a scammer, I suspect that there's more than even chances that they'll be able to work out how to use a proxy that will always appear to be from a particular country.

It shows up people using anonymizing proxies. If someone's location changes every other post then it's more visible than the IP hash and I think people should at least be aware of that so that they can chose to be more guarded with what they share.

If someone's using a proxy already, they could easily use one that provides an IP that consistently shows up as being from a particular country. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

It looks cool and shows what a global community we are.

fair enough.

It's a public internet forum, not a secret society or whistleblowing organization.

While it's not a secret society, I suspect that there are very many who tentatively join (I was one) after much thought and only after going to great lengths to protect their identity (i.e. using a one-off email, etc). Some, particularly those in countries with small JW populations, might see this as one risk too many. It would be a shame if an attempt to show how international the forum was actually reduced the level of diversity. There are many tales of JW elders or even r/f who have gone to great lengths to catch someone in the act, so I think it's quite understandable that many want to protect their identity.

Since the only advantage that doesn't have a counterpoint is "it looks cool" and there are at least perceived risks (a perceived risk is all it takes to cause damage, even if the risk isn't real) it seems to me that it's not really worth it to have the country flags. I don't care personally (I suspect most anyone can have a pretty good guess of where I'm from based on how I spell color) but I think there's a greater potential for damage to the community than the benefit can justify.