Posts by OneEyedJoe

72

Last nights meeting...

by DATA-DOG in

i know dubs are delusional.

i know dubs don't reason well.

i know dubs are a bit off, like many groups.

OneEyedJoe

Its been interesting reading everyones ideas of how old the the kid in the video is. I think it was planned that way. For people who WILL go very young with baptism - here is their role model.
For people who caution it shouldnt be a "child" well.......hes really "12-13 dontcha know" wink wink
I am basing my idea on the fact that we know they have always elaborately staged their illustrated work in publications and then encouraged people to derive meaning and comment on them at meetings.
They are finding that things they have put in to words have come back to bite them. Its very hard to be held accountable for things you put in to a picture.

Yep, the kid is sorta an ink-blot test. No matter what an individual JW thinks is the perfect age for baptism, they'll think the kid is that age.

The "what can we glean from the picture on page 12" questions at the meetings are always so irritating to me. From people's comments it's like they think because someone can stage a scene or, better yet, draw a picture that's proof that it's an accurate portrayal of reality. It's almost like the joke I've seen on TV shows a couple times - where the stupid character says something that rhymes as if the very fact that it rhymes makes it a true statement.

In any event, the kid is young but certainly not 6-7 years old and I've seen kids that young getting dunked. Even being older than that, what does every kid want? to be older. If they see a cartoon of an older kid getting dunked, they'll want to do it as a sign of their maturity. If they see a younger kid getting dunked, they'll feel guilty or inadequate. It's win/win for them.

46

How did you get through mind numbing meetings?

by minimus in

jw
friends

as an elder, i used to find a legitimate reason to wander.

OneEyedJoe

I like to browse this forum and screw around online to pass the time. Sometimes I'll read ahead in whatever they're "studying" and see if I can find some comment to give that might help someone in the audience to think about things a little more.

72

Last nights meeting...

by DATA-DOG in

i know dubs are delusional.

i know dubs don't reason well.

i know dubs are a bit off, like many groups.

OneEyedJoe

Adults giggling to the predictable sound effect laden idiocy of a cartoon and comparing it to some kind of miraculous provision was just too much. I truly felt alone as I sat there, listening to the drones giggle and fawn over a cartoon.

I don't know if I'd rush to judgement based on that. After all, I'd certainly rather watch a cartoon than sit through a typical meeting part. Their system was so prepared for the usual dull doom and gloom, do more or you'll die at armageddon BS that they always hear, so a lighthearted cartoon is such a shock to their system - of course they're going to giggle.

Once you're mentally out, the absurdity of it all is really shocking though. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to miss tonight so I'm glad I won't be sitting though this crap.

21

Mormon 'support' for gays, pressure on the WTS?

by Simon in

the mormon / lds church has noticably changed it's stance toward homosexuality and instead of condemning it seems to be supporting protection for people's rights (of course they want to throw some protection for themselves in there as well).. how will this affect the wts?

the lds is the more-successful counterpart to the wts, similar age and history and same non-mainstream appeal.. i have no doubt that the lds church is only changing because they know which way the wind is blowing and society has completely changes it's attitudes towards gay people.

maybe they just want to stay ahead pf the curve before federal legislation enforces people's rights.. now, can we see the wts changing their views" will they be one of the last holdouts?

OneEyedJoe

Sir82 - you make a good point. The recent concessions that the mormons are making are probably directly related to Mitt Romney's presidential run. I bet they desperately want to get a mormon into the whitehouse (or at least more positions of power) to legitimize their cult.

7

Automatic disfellowshipping if "sin" is repeated?

by snugglebunny in

back in the day, if someone was put on probation for an offence, rather than being disfellowshipped, if he re-offended whilst that probation was in force, disfellowshipping was automatic.

normally a probation lasted 12 months.

after the probation was finished that was it.

OneEyedJoe

A couple years ago, one of my first indications that something was systemically wrong with the organization was when a friend of mine told me about his cousin that had just gotten DF'd. His cousin had recently gotten married, but it came out that they'd had sex before hand. He got DF'd but his new bride only got reproved. My friend said that this was because the elders in his congregation had a "three strike rule" and he'd gotten in trouble with other girls in the past (many years prior).

My first thought was that Jesus reproved his disciples for daring to limit forgiveness to 7 times, but these assholes are taking someone who's clearly not going to re-offend (being that he actually married this girl) and they're giving him the boot because they can't bring themselves to forgive a measly 3 times?

Same thing with DFing people just because they get in trouble twice within some arbitrary, man-made time window. If they're repentant, they should continue to forgive them indefinitely in keeping with Jesus' statements. Maybe some good will come of it, though. Maybe some of those who are DF'd because of rules like this will wake up as a result and won't remain in a mental prison.

21

Mormon 'support' for gays, pressure on the WTS?

by Simon in

the mormon / lds church has noticably changed it's stance toward homosexuality and instead of condemning it seems to be supporting protection for people's rights (of course they want to throw some protection for themselves in there as well).. how will this affect the wts?

the lds is the more-successful counterpart to the wts, similar age and history and same non-mainstream appeal.. i have no doubt that the lds church is only changing because they know which way the wind is blowing and society has completely changes it's attitudes towards gay people.

maybe they just want to stay ahead pf the curve before federal legislation enforces people's rights.. now, can we see the wts changing their views" will they be one of the last holdouts?

OneEyedJoe

If they're forced to do it at the threat of loss of cash they'll probably dust off their tried-and-true method of not making it a DF offense, but saying that they've disassociated themselves by their actions. The end result is the same, the R/F won't know the difference and they'll be able to say that they don't DF people for being gay.

I don't think they really care too much about getting new recruits - they're happy to be the "few" that are finding the "narrow road." If they capitulate on the gay thing, I think they're likely to lose a few of the bigots that they've created since the acceptance of gays has been probably the #1 crime that they've been accusing christendom of for the last few years. They'd much rather reinforce their being the only true religion in the eyes of the R/F and if they're the last ones holding to the bible's bigoted view then that "where else will we go" question becomes just that bit more difficult.

111

Who is your favorite "Apostate"? Who helped you see the truth about "The Truth"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i would have to say that ray franz was the biggest influence for me.. when i first got on this board, a poster by the name of james, a former bethelite and organization heavy, helped me understand a lot of the inner workings in the upper echelons of the society.. .

and of course, farkel's common sense approach was (usually) helpful..

OneEyedJoe

Paul Grundy (jwfacts) is the one that I owe my awakening to. Can't overstate how much I appreciate his clear fact-based approach.

92

GB says, "Our way of worship will soon be altered."

by Separation of Powers in

my mom called me yesterday to ask how i was doing.

i hadn't seen her in a while, so it was nice to hear her voice.

we went through the motions of jw small talk and then she started telling me about her co visit from last week.

OneEyedJoe

Our CO visit a year ago I think he gave a talk about all the recent changes and there was a strong implication that more was to come. I'm not convinced that anyone knows what the changes are yet, but from even a cursory examination of their history it's obvious that there's going to be changes, so they probably just like to keep the R/F prepped for that.

Plus statements like that are always good for a little fear mongering.

13

Is Watchtowers view & practices currently split in two? Split leadership direction?

by thedepressedsoul in

i've been deeply following jw "culture" the last 2 years and i am getting the impression that the leadership is currently split in two different directions.

on one hand you get this sense of a happy, joyful and less strict religion and on the other hand there is still this strict, harsh religion of the past.

let me explain more.. there have been a lot of video's lately that show dancing in kingdom halls, bethel dancing to the "happy" song, jw.org downplaying their beliefs and making it sound like daisies.

OneEyedJoe

I'll say it before vidiot comes in here and says it (I happen to agree)

the rebranding is about presenting the appearance of "mainstreaming", whilst keeping the internal policies unchanged.

I think in most cases where you have leadership by committee, you'll see some degree of mixed messages coming through, so that may be a part of it as well. I think GB 2.0 is much more in the loop as to what's really going on than their predecessors, (even if they don't realize it and consider themselves to be true believers) so they're inevitably going to be more manipulative about presenting a great facade for the org while leaving the insides rotten. I think it all started with the public/study WT split - at least for me that seems to have been the beginning of their efforts to put on a good face for the public while keeping the true policies as harsh as ever.

19

Has the WT ever specifically said in print that GB is NOT the FDS in contradiction of current position?

by Pubsinger in

just out of interest.

OneEyedJoe

That '81 article is pretty damaging to it's current position. If I ever get asked if I believe that the FDS is God's channel for communication on earth today, I will say something to the effect of: "How can I believe that when they where confused as to who the FDS even was until 98 years after Christ was enthroned! They didn't even realize when they were appointed, and what they were appointed over. How can I believe that they are God's channel if they couldn't get that on simple thing straight 100 years ago?"

In my head, I've played out the possible scenario of being asked the 'apostasy question' about believing the GB is the FDS. I think I'll start with "First, I'd like to point out that you didn't believe that until a couple years ago." Then say something like "there's actually some pretty firm scriptural evidence that this is not the case" and pull out the '81 WT article. Depending on the situation (i.e. if I really don't care if I'm DF'd) I might add - "this article makes it clear that anyone that insists that the GB is the FDS is an apostate!"