Posts by OneEyedJoe

45

Does Jehovah Intervene - JW Teaching

by thedepressedsoul in

i have been a jw my whole life and i have never been able to get a clear answer on this question.

jw's do not believe that jehovah will intervene if someone is sick, dying or stopping a car crash.

they feel that jehovah is letting "this world" play out before he solves all of these problems.

OneEyedJoe

I see what you are saying but it still doesn't explain why they say Jehovah intervenes for some things and yet when it comes to sickness/accidents that he stays completely out of it.

My point was that this is a contradiction that comes forth from an attempt (this happens in most religions) to take credit for good things while avoiding responsibility for bad things. This is not unique to JWs. There is scriptural basis for thinking that you may be tested to the point of death (i.e. no intervention from god) and there is scriptural basis for thinking that god might help you out. When you're a believer your cognition is based upon the assumption that god is good and worth serving, and when you enter that into the equation it doesn't take much for the believer to start fitting their life experience into the framework that's given to them. Anything good that they're surprised by, they attribute to god and are grateful. Anything that's bad gets attributed to bad luck, satan or whatever and they're unhappy. God doesn't have to do anything.

11

JWs Don't Really Believe This Scripture...

by JW_Rogue in

so the bible says this about god at rom 1:20 for his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the worlds creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and godship, so that they are inexcusable.. however, jws don't really believe this scripture to be true.

whenever something comes out about nature that they don't like they will instead say that it is due to imperfection.

animals are predatory and will kill to survive, well, that must be imperfection.

OneEyedJoe

That's a really good point. They'll talk about god having a sense of humor (duck-billed platypus) or being loving because animals take care of their young, but they never talk about animals that eat their young or predation.

45

Does Jehovah Intervene - JW Teaching

by thedepressedsoul in

i have been a jw my whole life and i have never been able to get a clear answer on this question.

jw's do not believe that jehovah will intervene if someone is sick, dying or stopping a car crash.

they feel that jehovah is letting "this world" play out before he solves all of these problems.

OneEyedJoe

If Jehovah didn't intervene to help you, it's because he's allowing things in this system to play out. If something good does happen to you, though, it's because of Jehovah.

In short, anything good that happens to you is because of your involvement in the cult, and if anything bad happens it's either Satan's system testing you or because you're not having enough involvement in the cult.

13

Organization, not a concept established by God

by StarTrekAngel in

i was dwelling over a discussion going on at jw-archive.

the old topic of the legitimacy of the gb and the concept of centralized organization.

despite what the wt claims, there are a number of examples in the new testament of actions and decisions taken without direction or even the awareness of the elders in jerusalem.. despite whatever other evidence jw may have about the organizational tendencies of god (namely the creation, universe, whatever else they usually bring up), the concept of an organized nation never originated from god.

OneEyedJoe

The last time I tried to reason with an elder about "conscience" he was totally unable to grasp the thought that it would ever be possible for "the organization" to tell you anything that was not in harmony with God's thinking

Yeah, that's the problem most JWs seem to have, in spite of tons of evidence in the bible of what they consider to have been god's organization of the day going astray. I even asked my wife about that at one point, and she said "this close to the end, I don't think Jehovah would let his organization stray." There's just so many holes in that - for one you have to rely upon this organization being genuine before you can conclude that we're close to the end. Furthermore it apparently removes the allowance for free will.

13

Organization, not a concept established by God

by StarTrekAngel in

i was dwelling over a discussion going on at jw-archive.

the old topic of the legitimacy of the gb and the concept of centralized organization.

despite what the wt claims, there are a number of examples in the new testament of actions and decisions taken without direction or even the awareness of the elders in jerusalem.. despite whatever other evidence jw may have about the organizational tendencies of god (namely the creation, universe, whatever else they usually bring up), the concept of an organized nation never originated from god.

OneEyedJoe

When the Isrealites asked for a king, god was against it but only appointed Sol after they wouldn't let it go, if I remember correctly.

The route I always go is that while god had a chosen nation, that nation often erred and it was the individuals following it that were usually punished, not the leadership. So regardless of whether he has or does have an organization in today's world, I'd much rather live or die by my own conscience vs blindly following an organization since that's no guarantee of salvation either.

21

Is going into a church really THAT bad?

by Zana in

family background: my wife ("liberal" jw), me (ubm), two children aged 5 and 2.

(want more details?

-> http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/279456/raising-kids-jw-mother-agnostic-father).

OneEyedJoe

It's called phobia indoctrination. It takes many forms and is pervasive in the JW cult. The following is just what I can come up with off the top of my head as the reason for this behavior:

JWs seen attending services in a church building can be deemed as having disassociated themselves from the JW cult and would thus be subject to shunning. Even though you did not invite her to attend, this fact creates a negative view of churches in general because of the disastrous consequences of going to one. Furthermore the JW rumor mill is a scary thing and she may fear for her status if you and her children are seen going to the church.
Churches are a center of "false religion" "christendom" (christendom is exclusively used in a negative connotation in the JW loaded language) and "babylon the great." JWs are told to "get out of her" lest they share in her sins and receive her coming tribulation (i.e. death at armageddon).
While there's been less focus on it these days, your wife was likely raised in an era in which fear of demons was pushed extensively and many JWs see churches and symbols of christianity (i.e. the cross or virgin mary) as potential sources of demonic possession or torment.
The JW literature often gives counsel not to even enter a church for the funeral of a parent or a family member. There was a thread about a recent article (tried to find it but couldn't after a cursory search) in which an account was given of a woman with an unbelieving spouse that was attending the funeral of one of his parents (I think) and the account explained how she demonstrated respect for her husband by waiting outside the church for him. Now this may sound like something that would tell you that taking your children to the church would be fine, but in reality this serves to demonstrate to a JW that merely entering a church building for any reason is something to be feared and will displease god. Your wife doesn't want her children to be murdered by her god at armageddon so she wants to keep them out of the church.
Churches are often held up as examples of money-grubbing organizations that do nothing to benefit their members (ironic, huh?) and this is yet another reason that they will have a negative view of them.

I'm probably forgetting more than I'm putting down here. The point is that there's a TON of indoctrination going on regarding so much as entering a church building (I think even cleaning one if you work for a janitorial company has been discouraged) and your wife can't possibly be expected to be able to sort through it all. It just hits her as a big emotional red flag of fear and terror and sadness for her children and she can't handle it and shuts down. It's designed to do this so that you can't get past it. It's designed to be a wall too tall to climb so she won't put in the effort even if you try to work through it with her.

That said, it might be something you can get past, but be patient and go slow because it's going to be difficult for her.

23

Seeking advise on going to college/university

by joe134cd in

here is the current situation of an acquaintance of mine.. age early 40s.

currently lost her good paying job.. managed to find another reasonably quickly.

although be it with not good money but with the possibility of been able to take an adult apprenticeship which would increase her pay over time.. she is also looking into going to university in the new year.. here is the question i have bearing in mind the above scenario.

OneEyedJoe

My mother went to college and got her masters in her 40s (she must not have complete faith in the imminence of armageddon) and it didn't take long to pay for itself in her case. It helped that she worked somewhere that helped with tuition, of course, but there are all sorts of ways to help pay for college that can help supplement things. It would be better to look at the field she's considering to determine ROI rather than just looking at "college vs no college" because there's a lot of kids that go to college and get a degree in history and are no better off financially for it.

Something else to consider would be to think about this beyond dollars/cents ROI - Personally I would consider returning to school once I retire purely for the pleasure of learning. If there's something that she's really passionate about learning, then even if it never pays for itself monetarily it may be worth the cost for the experience and the opportunity to work in a field that better suits her. If she's an exJW or otherwise has limited social support college can also be a great way to meet new people, have new experiences and make lifelong friends that have similar interests. A college professor of mine once said to the class, in the context of choosing a career, "money is almost never a good reason to do anything" and for most people who are in a good enough position that they're considering college as a possibility, I think he's probably right. Obviously if she's struggling to get by things might be different but if she can make it work and it will have a significant impact on her enjoyment of life, then who cares whether or not it pays for itself?

25

My daughter surprised me last night.

by Driving Force in

i started my fade a the beginning of 2015, took counseling form a psychiatrist, and worked hard to get my family away from the cult.

my marriage split and i now live alone with my 15 year old daughter.. she came to me last night and we started talking about jws.

she told me that the subject they are discussing at the moment in philosophy is "cults".

OneEyedJoe

That's great to hear! I also think it's great that they're educating kids on cults at that age, I wish I'd gotten a similar education.

56

OK friends lets be honest, if a Nuclear Holocaust took place today how many of you would return to the KH?

by James Mixon in

speaking for my self, no way in hell.. this question to see if you really have been deprogramed,.

do you 100% believe it is not the truth.. a fourth of the world hit by a nuclear attack..

OneEyedJoe

If something like that happens I'll spend my time trying to protect myself and those I love. I won't waste a moment hoping for some dessert god to do it for me.

18

Religulous Woke Me Up

by thedepressedsoul in

there are many people that get their wake up call one way or another.. for me, i was bored and went to netflix.

on there was a documentary called, "religulous".

i watched it and that started my search.

OneEyedJoe

Definitely a good documentary. I didn't see it until after I'd been awake (and honestly, I don't know that it would've done the trick for me back when I was more or less fully in) but it's definitely a good watch. Especially for those who are leaving and asking the "where do I go" question, or those that are still wrestling with doubts about leaving.