aniron

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Posts by aniron

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  77

  Like we'll ever settle this once and for all, but here goes; ARE YOU A TRUE CHRISTIAN?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower says; "there is an enormous distinction between true christianity and the religion practiced by those who are christians in name only" - wt 1st october 2009. now, in the light of all the current controversy over the word 'atheist' and what it means can you see how irritating it is to have your frame of reference, be it a religious belief system or something else, redefined by others?

  and usually it is redefined by those who have something to gain by the linguistic manipulation.. for the watchtower the gain is easy to see but what about the attempt by many believers to define atheism as a belief system?

  could it be that equating rational atheism with belief is nothing more than an attempt to legitimize faith?.

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  aniron

  Religion has nothing to offer a rational, skeptical atheist like me, atheism on the other hand has something the religious would love to have - credibility

  Credibiity in what?
• 
  33

  Branch offices in Europe are closing

  by Samuel Thorsen in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have from a safe source that the bethel branch office in austria, ireland, italy and switzerland are closing down in the near future.

  most of the business will be taken care of from the german bethel.

  nothing is said thru official channels yet, but there is no reason to doubt my source.. can anyone tell more about this topic?.

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  aniron

  Yes, many of us can remember the boasting of how the organisation was expanding in the 1980's.

  Building branches or expanding existing ones. Even here in UK they talked about moving from Mill Hill and building new place at Milton Keynes.
  But that was dropped even before it satrted.

  As said above, when any business starts to feel the pinch, they start cutting back on staff and premises they don't really need.

  Maybe another reason in closing "Bethel" branches, is that they are no longer getting the "volunteers" to serve in them. ?

  Also these past years they have been, shooting themselves in the foot, by changing long standing doctrines.
  Example of the "generation" teaching, also the "heavenly class" because numbers of the "anointed" has risen.
  Changes in the blood doctrine.
  Then they had the United Nations mess.
  Then the exposing of how they deal with paedophiles.
  All this has caused many to question and leave.

  Then they are battling the great "demon" of the Internet.
  Which these past years has exposed many things about the Watchtower.
  Either causing some to leave , and to stop other becoming JWs when they learn what the WT is really like.
  Add to this the many books that have been published by those who have been JWs and what they went through.

  Many of the older JWs , getting disillusioned, did not think they would still be here, Armageddon should have come by now.

  Its September 1st, beginning of a new "Service Year" the reports for 2009-10 will have been gathered.
  What will the 2010 World report contain?
  Increase ? Probably 1-2% mainly from internal sources, children and relatives of JWs.
  Will the number of "anointed" Memorial partakers have gone up? Or have they been warned off?

  We await and see what it says.
• 
  86

  What is the most secularly acclaimed Bible translation?

  by sabastious in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i want to start reading the bible more but i do not want to use the nwt.

  the fact that the nwt took so many liberties makes me a little gunshy about other translations, which one would you recommend?.

  -sab.

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  aniron

  Of course you are all going on about Bible translations in English.

  As if the Bible is only meant for English speaking people.

  What about other languages ?

  Are they translated accurately ?

  The problem when translating anything is to get over the same meaning and nuance, as in the original language.

  Sometimes this is difficult because some languages just do not have the same phrase that covers the original language phrasing.

  That is why if you are serious about Bible study you should use more than one version.

  Unlike JWs, so called students of the Bible, who I have known to panic if asked to look at other translations.

  If you want information on why the NIV is translated the way it is go here and download a pdf

  "Accuracy Defined and Illustrated:An NIV translator Answers Your Questions"

  "To help others understand the NIV's passion for accuracy, Kenneth L. Barker explains the translation of 150 Scripture passages in the NIV. From the creation account in Genesis 1:1, the prophesied birth of Isaiah 7:14 or the fourth person of Daniel 3:25, to head covering in 1 Corinthians 11:4-7, the Great Commission in Matthew 28:19-20 or the tree of life in Revelation 22:19, the author carefully answers translations questions."

  http://www.biblica.com/niv/accuracy/index.php
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  16

  Should a DF'd person lie to get reinstated?

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  suppose someone is wrongfully disfellowshipped and is unable to appeal successfully.

  suppose he still believes in the watchtower society and tries to get reinstated as soon as possible.

  imagine that the elders want to make sure that he is repentant by insisting that he shows remorse for what he is accused of doing.

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  aniron

  Many do lie, usually just so they can talk to family again.
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  23

  R.Franz "Christian Freedom" Bk - Misuse of Disfellowshipping -WT Hypocrisy

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just finished the chapter in ray's " christian freedom " book on " misuse of disfellowshipping .

  i highly recommend anyone reading it as it has numerous experiences of individuals who were mistreated so unjustly by the wt society's rigid rules - many in spite of 40, 50, or 60 yrs.

  of faithful alleigance to the wt society's rules.

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  aniron

  The same can be said about those of us who Disassociated.

  You get treated just the same.

  Makes you mad when you read such lying comments by JWs - "Anyone is free to leave, no problem."

  Tell that to those whose families no longer talk to them.
• 
  14

  Overheard interesting lunch room converstation..............

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  as i just finished up my lunch, i thought i would relate this experience to you all.

  i was sitting in the lunch room here at work and 2 ladies were talking.

  what were they talking about?

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  aniron

  The JW are quick to blow there own trumpet some article in a Watchtower,
  how they helped someone or during some disaster.
  But its only their own they help.

  I once asked a JW, what do they do.
  Attend meetings, go door-to-door.
  That is the sum total of what they do.

  Where is the help to the homeless, drug addicts, single mothers, young people etc?
  Where are they running soup kitchens, clinics, schools, orphanages in the world.

  The church I now attend does all these things, even when it can't afford to.
  They don't ask if someone is a member of the church beforehand.
  Or even if they are Christian.
  We set up and help support a school/clinic in Nigeria where many of the pupils are Muslim.

  Christian organisations are helping in Pakistan taking aid etc, to victims of the floods.
  They didn't say we can't help them, they are Muslims, or "worldly people".

  The JW will say how they are bringing the "good news" to people.
  That they will know they can live in a paradise, if they follow the Watchtower.
  "Jehovah will solve all the problems in His time."
  "Here read this magazine."

  Not much good when your home has been swept away in a flood, or your ill, struggling in the here and now.

  Don't they know the parable of the "Good Samaritan" ?

  They have no concept of putting "Christ into action"
• 
  17

  Manual - Pioneer Service School

  by naeuca in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi all,.

  i'm thinking about pioneer service...... would anyone happen to have the manual - shining as illuminators in the world, in pdf format that they can send me please to have a look at.. many thanks!!.

  naeuca .

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  aniron

  Pioneer in my opinion is the most demoralising experience a JW can do.
  They try to make out its so wonderful, a "spiritual" experience.
  In my years as a JW , having spoken to many a pioneer, brothers and sisters.
  They often turn out to be the most miserable of JWs.
  They worry about getting their hours in, and trying to keep a part-time job.
  Those who didn't get help from family, usually gave up after a couple of years.
  Or because they can't find a pioneer partner partner.
  One sister gave up after a year as she was always on her own.
  And that in a congregation of 90 publishers.

  The only exceptions were a pioneer sister, about 25yrs old, in my last congregation.
  Been pioneering since she left school, had a part-time job as a secretary.
  Held up to be the model of pioneering, used in demonstrations at assemblies etc.

  Then a couple of years after I had left, she upped and left.
  Went off with the married guy she was secretary to.
  Turned about she had been having affair with him for about 4-5 years.

  In a previous congregation, there was abrother who pioneered, Min Servant, married with children.
  He di the usual window cleaning work, in fact had a good business.
  IHe always seemed to be a real "Watchtower" guy.
  Knew all the latest thoughts and "new light" etc,
  The kind who would say something if your Watchtower wasn't underlined, smarmy guy.

  Next thing I hear he has been disfellowshipped.
  Turned out on his window cleaning round.
  He was doing more than just cleaning windows for some of his female customers.
  He used to come to Hall as if nothing had happened.
  His wife didn't want him near her or the children.
  But the Elders said she couldn't stop him sitting by his own children.
  She divorced him, but even the Elders didn't like her doing that.

  Another thing the guy was reinstated, after a year.
  Then in six months or so, disfellowshipped again for doing exactly the same thing.

  So don't believe pioneers are all nice "spiritual" JWs.
• 
  68

  Change in meeting attendance procedure - can't figure out why though

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  per a recent letter to elders:.

  beginning september 1, there will be a change to the way attendance is recorded at congregation meetings.. currently, attendance is counted at 4 of the 5 meeting (public talk, wt study, congregation "bible" study, and service meeting).. but after sept. 1, meeting attendance will only be taken at 2 of the meetings - during the "first quarter" of the wt study, and also at the cbs.. .

  no reason in given for the change in the letter, and i can't figure out why myself.. the numbers are not published anywhere - the only "official" record is a 6 month average the co puts together during his visit.. why request less information from the congregations, especially when it "costs" nothing to accumulate it in the first place?

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  aniron

  When I used to take the count, at all five meetings back then.

  We used to average 130 for public talk, which would drop to 100-110 for the Watchtower study.

  School and Service Meeting didn't vary that much usually a couple more late comers,for the Service Meeting.
  Which usually had an attendance of 90-110.

  We had 86 publishers on record.

  So maybe just counting the WT and during school would give an idea if all the publishers were attending.
• 
  40

  2012 Prophecy

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  now, i know that the 2012 issue has been blown out of proportion.

  and i know all the reasons that believing in them are wrong.

  but has anyone else noticed a growth in this type of conversation?

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  aniron

  The 2012 phenomenon comprises a range of eschatological beliefs that cataclysmic or transformative events will occur on December 21, 2012 , which is said to be the end-date of a 5,125-year-long cycle in the Mayan Long Count calendar . Various astronomical alignments and numerological formulae related to this date have been proposed, but none have been accepted by mainstream scholarship.

  So what happened at the end of the last cycle 5,125 years ago?

  or

  In the Solar System, the planets and the Sun share roughly the same plane of orbit, known as the plane of the ecliptic. From our perspective on Earth, the ecliptic is the path taken by the Sun across the sky over the course of the year. The 12 constellations which line the ecliptic are known as the zodiac and, through the year, the Sun passes through each constellation in turn. Additionally, over time, the Sun's annual passage appears to recede counterclockwise by one degree every 72 years. This movement is attributed to a slight wobble in the Earth's axis as it spins. [47] As a result, approximately every 2160 years, the constellation visible on the early morning of the spring equinox changes. In Western astrological traditions, this signals the end of one astrological age (currently the Age of Pisces) and the beginning of another (Age of Aquarius). Over the course of 26,000 years, the precession of the equinoxes makes one full circuit around the ecliptic. [47]

  What happened 26,000 years ago at the last "Galactic allignment" ?
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  22

  Get ready for new world currency! U.N. report!

  by sacolton in

  1. social
  2. current

  and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

  here is wisdom.

  let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore and six.. .

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  aniron

  Aniron - everyone got the 2012 mixed up, it's not the end of the world. It's supposedly the 'end of an age'. So some will take it to mean the reign of Christ, or the wild beast, etc starts around then. Or the golden age.

  You do have some who believe around then, an orbit of brown dwarf which passes by every few thousand years on earth, (burning everything upon it) will happen too.

  Or the 'aliens' who brought life here will return to enslave man or something like that.

  With how rapidly things are changing, I wouldn't be surprised if 'something' major happens that year. In the sense of atleast governments and such.

  endof mysteries

  I couldn't care less .

  I do not believe anything will happen at all.

  There are that number of "theories" about 2012 etc.

  They have been going the rounds for years even from when I was younger.

  Now theres only a couple of years to go it now becomes big business people crawling out the woodwork making money out of it.

  The fuss they all made about 2000 , end of civilisation, planes falling out the sky, money will be useless, we will all have chips implanted in us etc etc

  What happened ------ damn all.

  and the same will happen in 2012

  And you laugh at JWs and their prophecies