Posts by Mephis

34

Do most ex JW's go politically left?

by Lightgrowsbrighter in

i've found it interesting that- imho- most of the politically vocal ex-jw's at this website seem to lean left.

i'm personally pretty centered- right on some issues, left on others, but overall have a pretty cynical view of all political/religious leaders.

i find it somewhat ironic that people who leave such a dogmatic group like the witnesses become so politically dogmatic.

Mephis

JWs are left wing economically (insert Jewish socialist gags here) and authoritarian socially (which is typically seen as right wing outside of extreme examples from communism). To all intents and purposes the JWs' dream world is a more extreme version of Ted Cruz's but on the other side of the divide economically. Look to Stalinist Soviet Union or the Stalinist style North Korean regime for real world examples I guess. Current right wing examples may well actually be some of the Islamic dictatorships. Irony overload.

That authoritarian extreme of JWs makes it harder to be more authoritarian, so everyone will fall somewhere below that on the axes when they leave dubland. Head right economically and keep most of the social views, and the US Republican Party is your friend. Believe in the ability of change to happen through communal effort but want more freedom and you'd likely be happier under a Green Party government in a European country. Go polar opposites and you end up an anarcho-capitalist, territory into which the US libertarian movement dips (too conservative socially really to fully count - calling yourself a libertarian and believing the state has the right to dictate social matters based on religious views is oxymoronic).

I actually think it's healthy to see ex-dubs engaging in real world politics and becoming passionate about it. Even if I disagree with someone's views with every fibre of my being, I'll celebrate with them casting the vote and being out enough to try to address real world problems rather than waiting for 'God magic' to fix things.

16

A 'Paradise' for mice turned out not to be so

by Petraglyph in

in this experiment, mice were given a perfect environment in which to live.

for the mice you would think this was 'paradise'.

but due to their nature it did not take long for this to become a horrible place to live.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z760xny4vm.

Mephis

We're moving into a future where we begin to manipulate genes and technology to transform humans themselves. Interesting times.

The mouse experiment is fascinating because one of the ideas proposed was that it wasn't physical crowding but over stimulation socially which was producing the results. The big question, which is unanswered, is how much about human behaviour can we learn from studying mice and rats.

I guess the JW utopia to me is always the one of thought crime and total loss of individuality and creative expression otherwise. My idea of hell really. Even growing up inside, the idea of a panda was nice but listening to kingdom melodies every day really didn't appeal. Nor did having to live with the people in my congregation for all of eternity (with a couple of exceptions). And no books but WBTS ones was really not going to make me want to go to paradise. Liberating moment to realise that you don't mind not having that fixation on getting through Armageddon to the 'promised land'.

34

Do most ex JW's go politically left?

by Lightgrowsbrighter in

i've found it interesting that- imho- most of the politically vocal ex-jw's at this website seem to lean left.

i'm personally pretty centered- right on some issues, left on others, but overall have a pretty cynical view of all political/religious leaders.

i find it somewhat ironic that people who leave such a dogmatic group like the witnesses become so politically dogmatic.

Mephis

Decent way to judge where you are on the political spectrum using a fairly neutral way of judging things because there's a fairly international community here. Both right/left economics and libertarian/authoritarian.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

I'm a leftwing libertarian. (-7.88 left, -6.41 libertarian).

Personal feeling, it really varies with which group. In some ex-JW fb groups, I'd not be surprised at all to be the only 'commie' in the group. My suspicion is that it will break out broadly reflective of broader society, especially so as people's views and beliefs become their own again post-exit from dubland. Seems to hold true, at least from British perspective, for things like belief in God from polls of ex-dubs and then comparing to what I see in broader society in Britain. Which is of course a very different place to, say, Bible Belt USA.

1

PAUCITY OF EMPATHY IN WTBTS / GB of JW

by Nicholaus Kopernicus in

emotional intelligence why it can matter more than iq (1996).

daniel goleman.

ch7 the roots of empathy.

Mephis

Enjoyed that post Nicholaus. .

On the subject of candour, Jackson said at the Australian Royal Commission that they have apologised in the past. I'm still to locate an apology too. I can find lots of excuses, and I can find lots of blameshifting, even the odd acknowledgement of error in doctrine, but an actual apology seems elusive.

23

Changes to reporting

by Formerbrother in

so it seems placing literature is not so important anymore, now that we live in a digital age.. we are being pushed to show videos instead.

this is the new reporting from next month, just hrs and any literature placed in one box and then how many videos you showed in another box.. bib changes for sure..

Mephis

The letter to the elders telling them about these changes also said that the number of videos shown etc. isn't even to be reported to the branch. The CO will look at the numbers, but that's about all. I suppose it would be embarrassing if lots of views were 'placed' and Brooklyn knew that there were far fewer views actually made.

21

WTBTS Submissions to Royal Commission on abuse: The response document in FULL

by JWchange in

it is not obvious if someone has already put the responses and excuses to the findings of the royal commission, by watchtower on this forum somewhere, sorry if it is already posted.

click on the link below, and scroll down to 'submissions' near bottom of page and you can download the full document.

if this link doesn't work.

Mephis

The full context of that quote from the newspaper. I don't think it's actually a compliment...

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/hypocrisy-in-the-jehovahs-witness-church-laid-bare-at-child-abuse-royal-commission/story-fnpn118l-1227465186315

Max Horley, a lifelong Jehovah’s Witness, was one of two people to whom she reported the abuse in 1991. He told the commission he had thought it a “serious breach of trust” by Neill but never considered that the police should be called in.
He said he had made notes of their discussions but protocol insisted that they be destroyed to protect the victim, the accused and the rest of the congregation in case they fell into the “wrong hands” — including their wives.
While people from other churches dragged to the royal commission have obviously been coached by PR gurus and lawyers in how to present themselves and say the right thing while giving evidence, the Jehovah’s Witnesses were totally devoid of artifice.
Asked if he would do the same thing today and destroy the notes of any allegations of sexual abuse, Mr Horley was unequivocal. “Yes, that’s our practice,” he said.

34

The lord of the rings

by BlackWolf in

now that i've found out ttatt i've been indulging in a lot of so called "spiritistic" entertainment lol.

i recently watched all of the lotr/hobitt movies and man were they awesome!!!

who knew spiritism could be so much fun lol.

Mephis

Would try the His Dark Materials series if you're catching up some with fantasy stuff. There was a film made, but watch out for the BBC series coming within the next couple of years. It should be most excellent. If Stardust was on the verboten list, then that's not so bad either for a film version of the book.

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Mephis

So in the late 1800's Br Russell had to get everything spot on accurate and understand the entire bible straight away?

What exactly did Russell get right which is still believed today by JWs? They no longer believe that Jesus arrived in 1874, whether invisibly or not. His ideas on the creative day have been rejected after 1975 proved a letdown. The rapture did not happen on any date suggested or even implied by Russell. Even the 1914 date had to be amended because he thought Armageddon would come on October and JWs now claim they were predicting just a year and they're right because WW1 started in, erm, August. His whole views on every story of the bible having symbolic significance in the 19th and 20th centuries has just recently been abandoned. He thought the faithful and discreet slave was a single man, that's now been amended to a group. The pyramids of Giza no longer are the guides to understanding the bible. When was Studies in the Scriptures last in print from the WBTS anyway?

Arianism isn't new. The 144,000 idea is pretty unique but then there's more annointed now than there has been for decades, so something funky is going on with how God counts up to 144,000 if he was right. Non-belief in Hell? That's not unique either.

What are the things he got right which other religions don't also preach? It's a Trigger's broom of a religion. The 'truth' of the 1870s is very far removed from the 'truth' of 2015. Assuming there is a single truth to be discovered, if Russell was so wrong about so much, what guarantees are there that his successors aren't equally as wrong? Because they say so? 'Millions now living will never die'. Nope. They're dead. "Jesus evidently meant overlapping generations"? Really? How many generations overlapped in the 30 odd years between Jesus supposed words and Jerusalem's destruction?

155

Survey: How long were you in the cult vs what year you were baptized

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

hi people,.

i want as much data as possible on the effect of the internet on the time captured by the cult.. please answer the three following questions about yourself or about someone you know (for example, if your parents or grandparents were jw's and left).

1) were you raised as a jw, or did you convert?.

Mephis

Hi Mephis,
So essentially 0 years? Can you estimate perhaps the months?

I was fading before baptism. :D But I'm sure I'm not alone in having done the baptism thing whilst a non-believer and for family reasons rather than my own beliefs. Just put me down as 0 I guess? Otherwise you're working with minus numbers!

45

Closest to the truth?

by punkofnice in

i know many jws that state that the watchtower corporation is the 'closest to the truth'.

thus they quiet their cognitive dissonance.. i don't have access to a corporation library any more.

is this a stance that the watchtower corporation has actually claimed?.

Mephis

I heard similar arguments used when I was inside. It was more the exposition JWs do to try to resolve the contradiction of being told things like righteous men in 1879 had the truth but their truth is not the truth that JWs currently believe. It was typically followed by the "and, anyway, where else would we go?" reinforcement. "Perfect organisation but imperfect people", but never the claim "doing imperfect thing perfectly".