Hi there. I have quite a bit to say on the matter, Dis-Member. :) I hope you have to time to read it all! I will do my best to answer each of your posts.
“The Bible can be used to prove just about anything you like.”
True. But if you diligently search it yourself and pray to God for understanding, you will know what is truth and what is the lie. Scripture interprets Scripture.
“"God is not the author of confusion". Can you think of a single book that's caused more confusion than the Bible? What is literal and what is metaphorical? Everyone thinks that they have the right way and they all disagree with each other. And Jesus does not return and God is silent for thousands of years and never shows himself.”
The only Way is Jesus. He declared this Himself (John 14:6). Any other way is false. And any other Jesus is false. Jesus will return, friend. Do not fret. Remember, “a thousand years is as a day to God”. ;-) Also, "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." (Psalm 90:4) He has revealed Himself through His creation and His Word. Men are without excuse. "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse." (Rom 1:20)
“How on earth are we meant to believe in any of it? Faith based upon nothing is madness.”
Key Scriptures: Heb 11:1, James 1:3, Gal 5:22, Rom 10:17
Heb 12:22 tells us that our faith is in Jesus not in nothing! 1 Pet 1:5-9, 1 John 5:4, 1 Cor 2:5
“If I am honest with myself the whole idea of a non-provable faith in anything is seeming more and more to me like believing in fairy stories. I personally can not prove a single thing of what I believe. I can't even defend it. What business do I have in believing it in the first place then? Merely saying 'because the Bible says so' is no longer enough as we already know they Bible can say anything you want it to.”
You cannot defend it because the Watchtower has preached lies to you. All Watchtower doctrine can easily be refuted with Scriptures by those who study it diligently and not waste time studying a bunch of magazines and books.
“I also can not prove that the Bible is anything more than an old book that not a single person in history has ever understood. How can I ever possibly hope to.”
I understand it. And many others like me. We are few and far between. The key to understand is to “search the Scriptures daily” and “meditate on God's word day and night”. Ask God for the answers you seek. The Bible has stood the test of time. Many have tried to destroy it. But like the hammer on the anvil, the hammer (nay-sayers) wears away but the anvil (the Bible) still stands!
"Let's be honest here.. there simply is no verifiable testabable evidenece for a God.. if there was someone would have won the nobel prize by now."
Life. Life is more than enough proof for the existence of God. The amoeba-to-man theory of evolution is impossible. All processes within plants, animals and humans would have to have been there from the BEGINNING in order for life to begin and sustain itself. It did not go through “trial and error” phases or random mutations until the right process correlated with the others. If that happened then life would have died out years ago.
“He also discusses the hypocrisy and insincerity of acting like you believe something when you don't. (ie: attendance and participation at meetings and ministry) Something very many in here do and have done for years.”
Agreed. You know what else is hypocritical? Preaching your unbelief in something or someone. Having conferences based on this unbelief. Even having a “bible” based on this unbelief. I'm talking about the atheists, here. :P
“The Bible speaks of many men of old that had this wonderful illusive faith which are meant to inspire us. But of course they did! They saw fire a lightning come from the sky, they heard the thunderous voice of God from the heavens, they saw countless vast enemy armies vanquished with miraculous supernatural forces and whole cities swallowed with with fire and brimstone right before their eyes. Of course they would then have faith after experiencing such things if true.”
What about the men and women of the Bible and of today who have not had “in your face” experiences but still believe? And this belief is counted as righteous. Some of them did not have a “sign” from God. And for some, their “sign” came after they first believed. Examples of the faithful: Esther, Ruth (She was a Moabite but she stayed with Noami and believed in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And God rewarded her for her faith by making her a part of the Messianic bloodline. Ruth married Boaz. Ruth is the great-grandmother of King David.), Rahab (She was a prostitute before she became a part of the Messianic line. By faith she believed the spies who came to Jericho and it was this faith that saved her and her family. Her faith was confirmed when the walls of Jericho came down.)
“Later according to the same Bible in Jesus time people had faith only and because they saw him perform countless impossible miracles and bend the laws of nature.”
And what about those who had God within their very midst but still denied Him, doubted Him or turned away from Him?
The nation of Israel is a fine example. Even Pharoah denied God during the plagues. And Sarah did not believe she would have a son. She laughed at God. Judas walked with Jesus and still betrayed Him! Other examples: Gideon, Jacob, Peter, Eve.
"People in those times prayed to God and often got an unmistakable response from him in less than 5 minutes. People today can pray for 50 years and have no response what so ever."
Not true! I've had plenty of answered prayers! God is not bound by time like we are. So we may get discouraged when God doesn't answer right away. There are several reasons why God doesn't answer sometimes. It could be that you have still unresolved sins and you haven't humble yourself before the Lord and sought His forgiveness. Or maybe you are holding a grudge against someone and need to forgive them? Or maybe it's just not time yet? Or you are asking for selfish reasons? Or God says no because the outcome wouldn't be want you expected it to be? And we are to pray without ceasing. And sometimes fasting is required.
Sometimes God does not always use thunder, lightening or fire form Heaven to get one's attention. Remember Elijah. “And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake: And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.” 1 Kings 19:11-12 Elijah also prayed seven times before his prayer was answered (1 Kings 18). Abraham waited 25 years before God fulfilled His promise of a son.
Maybe you are listening for the wrong thing? Or maybe you've received your answer and it's not to your liking? Or maybe you've received your answer and you just don't realize it yet? Try listening for a whipser instead of a shout. :)
“God was seemingly far more friendly and sociable back then and liked humans more making several of them his 'friend'.”
Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith theLord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord. Jeremiah 23:23-24
You too can be God's friend. The answer lies in Jesus. :) "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you". John 15:13-15
“I'm sure if any of us today saw or experienced a single iota of this we would have the most unbendable and unbreakable and valid faith. But we don't.”
You speak for yourself. My faith cannot be shaken!
"In fact no human has experienced any direct interaction what so ever with God for over 2,000 years. We instead are told that we must have this same unbendable, unbreakable faith based on mere stories, legends, fables, parables passed down in copied, translated, manipulated, twisted, even possibly fabricated untrustworthy and unreliable documents written in languages we can not read and the veracity of which too can never ever be proven."
We no longer have the direct interactions as in the Bible because the Bible is complete. It is sufficient. All that remains to be fulfilled is the book of Revelation and the prophecies concerning the Antichrist."This is a form of 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 20th, and even a hundredth hand faith. Faith in the story of the faith of another person is not real faith."
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the Word of God. ~Romans 10:17"We are then also told in that same Bible and by those that promote it that of we do not have this faith we are utterly rejected by God. Apparently to be acceptable to God, it is necessary for one to exercise faith in Jesus Christ, and this makes possible a righteous standing with God. (Ga 2:16) Those lacking such faith are rejected by God.—Joh 3:36; compare Heb 11:6."
Correct. :) And why not have faith in the One who created all things? Having faith in Him is an act of Love."The men that wrote that either knew or had a real and personal experience of God and Jesus so it was easy for them to say and write such things. No one in 2,000 years has had any such real experience."
I believe I covered this in an above response.
"It seems that to have a real faith today in an uncontactable God and a 2,000 year absent Jesus is a physical, intellectual, emotional and spiritual impossibility."
You are not alone. God is here. Just open your heart to Him. If you cannot feel Him then it is by your own doing. Do not harden your heart to the Lord. Jesus is not absent. In fact, the signs of His soon return are upon us. Examples: Israel becoming a new nation, God bringing the Jews back to their homeland, the desolate nation of Israel blooming once again, the world's hatred of Israel, the moral decline in our society (especially violence and homosexuality, a.k.a, the days of Noah and of Lot), the weather going from one extreme to another, the blasphemy that is all over the media, the falling away from the faith, the gospel being preached to all nations, the world's leaders trying to set up a one world government, religion, and economy; famine, earthquakes and pestilences. Now I know that some of you may say, “this stuff has been going on for ages”. True. So what's the difference with our generation? All of these things are happening at once with an increase in occurrence and intensity. “The whole of creation groaneth as a woman in travail”. Just as a pregnant woman about to give birth, her contractions become more frequent and increase in intensity. Rom 8:22, 1 Thess 5:3
“What is needed to have genuine faith then is not the study of some dusty old antiquated parchments housed in the British Museum or the Vatican Library but rather for the living God to actually unmistakably do something in our lives today, right now to inspire and foster such faith. Without this there can be no surprise that the world is in utter and total confusion as to the existence, identity, nature and will of God.
It's not my intention to be unduly critical of the Bible and those that believe in it unequivocally.. (how can I criticize what I can not prove or even comprehend?). I'm just sad and confused that I have so very little if anything at all to build my faith upon. My study and experience of the Orgites has left my faith all but completely demolished and in tatters. I am left with nothing but total uncertainty.
I'm tired and weary of books and writings of the words of men claiming to be truth on any matter at all when there are as many different truths as there are people on earth.”
You may think that, but God declares that you do in fact need His Word, the Bible. Without it you cannot understand Him.
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. ~1 Tim 3:16,17
Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path. ~Psalm 119:105
But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’" ~Matt 4:4
This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success. ~Josh 1:8
For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. ~Rom 15:4
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. ~Heb 4:12
And many other Scriptures I could show you.
"Really not sure where to go from here. I have reached a dead end."
It is usually at this dead end where many finally come to know God. They give up, humble themselves before God and let HIM take over! A dead end is no dead end if it takes you down the road you were meant to be on. :)
"And yes it's very possible that people could be having genuine experiences and interactions with the Biblical 'Divine Being' and not writing great books about it but why then keep it secret?"
We are not keeping it secret. We are preaching the Gospel, are we not? What we do, we do for the glory of God and not of ourselves. Have you noticed all the megachurches and big name “Christian” speakers? They do it for money and not for God. There are also books out there where people have had encounters with angels or where God has intervened. The Reader's Digest has some "Angel" series books. I have a book called "Whispers from Heaven" that I like to read. And whose to say you would even believe such books? :)
"Still whatever the case it's nothing for me to base my own faith on. The God of the Bible and Jesus did not say a rare few scattered through the centuries would know him.. he said anyone and everyone can know him and experience him in all fullness. This I guess is more my point. This invitation was extented to every living person. All mankind."
You are correct. But I must tell you that if you wish to know God truly, you will have to forget all the Watchtower teachings about Him. They are wrong.
"This shows that doubts are normal and Jesus did not consider it a mortal sin. Wanting proof is normal."
It is normal. But also remember that a wicked and adulterous generation seeketh a sign (Matt 12:39). And no sign shall be given them except that of Jonah. What did Abraham tell the rich man who was in torment after death? If they will not believe Moses, they will not believe one who was raised from the dead (Luke 16:31). And remember, Judas walked with Jesus and still betrayed Him. The Pharisee's and scribes saw all that Jesus had done and still denied Him.
"But I have never seen, met, heard or had any confirmable interaction from either God or Jesus ever in my life. So what people are really telling you to have faith in is the opinions, views, intepretations, research, studies, writings, rantings, and mere gossip of others that you have also never seen, met, heard or had any interaction with. (not that that would make any difference)."
I have to ask. How do you know I wasn't put here to help you? Or the few others who seem to be telling you about God. Think about it. All these atheists pretending to be your friend and pushing you away from God. Yet here I am (and a few others) telling you otherwise? Have you ever received a gospel tract from someone? Or have you ever listened to a random preacher on the radio? God is calling out to each and every one of us. It is up to us to choose to listen or not. Like I posted above; maybe God has spoken to you, but you have yet to listen. God puts people in our lives to help us. I wouldn't have been saved myself but God put a person in my life to tell me the truth, to lead me to Christ. If God hadn't done that, I would probably still be a JW lost in my sins.
"41,000 different Christian denominations!!! 41,000 different versions of truth from that same one book called the Bible!! And that's just the denominations, with individuals there are as many versions of truth as there are people on earth!"
This doesn't surprise me. Satan has been twisting God's Word since the Garden. Satan, his angels and his followers can appear as "angels of light" (2 Cor 11:13-15) Not all 41,000 denominations can be called "Christian". Many of those denominations have a different Jesus or even a different God of the Bible. And many of them base salvation on works. You become a slave to a religion that teaches that you must serve them in order to gain Heaven. Many of those relgions have their own "bibles" or other literature. Many of those religions deny independent thinking or independent study of the Bible. Many of those religions were started by men who did not agree with the God/Jesus of the Bible. True Christianity is not a religion. It is a personal and profound relationship with Jesus Christ. It is the greatest Love one can ever know!
I could go on and on but you are probably tired of reading all this. :) If you want to experience the "Living God", then you have no further to go than Jesus. I pray all the best for you on your journey. And if you ever need a friend to talk to, I am here. :)
Take care and God bless.
