i stumbled across this vid and thought, shave the beard off him and stick him in a suit and tie, and he would be a perfect young mr. theocratic - on steroids.. my second thought was, as wacky as his ideas are .
if the gb put out the very same teachings tomorrow, the r&f would lap them up without a murmur.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivfa8ekoh-4.
your thoughts, folks?.
I stumbled across this vid and thought, shave the beard off him and stick him in a suit and tie, and he would be a perfect young Mr. Theocratic - on steroids.
My second thought was, as wacky as his ideas are . . . if the GB put out the very same teachings tomorrow, the R&F would lap them up without a murmur.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvFa8ekOh-4
Your thoughts, folks?
if push came to shove and it was a showdown for loyalty to the organization or not following whatever decrees coming heir way, what percentage would remain loyal to the organization?
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I agree with Bennyk and Mum - the R&F would have to be prepared and conditioned for it, but you know the Borg is really, really good at organizing events and also propaganda. First there would be top-secret meetings roping in the elders and ministerial servants and other "spritually strong" baptized brothers. (Ever noticed how quick the under-30 bros turn into fascist Storm Troopers when given some authority at assemblies and such - they love barking out the orders and throwing their weight around, no questions asked.)
Then there would be weeks or months of preparing the R&F lambs for the slaughter with special talks and pointed WT articles. It would all be so carefully and "lovingly" arranged, leading up to the "Special Meeting" day . . . . Seems to me from all I read on this board and others that there's a lot more disaffected bros and sisters now who show up for meetings but their heart isn't really in it. I dunno about now, I haven't set foot in a KH since 1977, but in my time before the 1975 debacle, as far as I ever knew, it was nearly all true believers -- I would say in that day and time, at least two-thirds would have drunk the kool-aid without a moment's hesitation, especially if the kids were killed first, and maybe even 80 or 90 percent. The others, as Mum suggests, would have to be forcibly done away with -- the "spiritually weak" ones who as usual didn't prepare for the meeting!
The idea of what would happen if the order was to go out and kill others . . . mmm, I'm thinking the numbers would have been somewhat lower because of the fear of retribution from police and jail time, etc. -- but I'm sure a significant number would have done the deed "whole-souled for Jehovah" if they were told to. Again, all with the Society's excellent planning & preparation beforehand. The lying, stinking bastards.
like they say in the movies, "follow the money.
" the thought occurred to me the other day - the wt scam rakes in billions of dollars, and yeah some of that goes to operations and equipment.
but bethelites at farm and factory get only a bare little dorm room and a monthly pittance.
Appreciate all the comments, folks. But I'm just afraid those of you who say that nobody's making a personal profit, all the money goes to support those expensive overseas branches and bethels, and the fact that most individual JW's drive shabby little cars and dwell in shabby little houses is some kind of proof that BILLIONS of tax-free dollars aren't going into somebody's pocket - well, if you think that way, you're either still drinking the kool-aid or are just terminally naive.
Look at what the original FDS and Chief Liar/Scammer/Jellyfish was pulling a hundred years ago - and this btw was just ONE of his many, many scams:
Nowadays, the possibilities for incredibly complex, deeply hidden frauds is bigger by several orders of magnitude - do you all recall the revelations about high finance and all the convoluted schemes that came to light just five or so years ago with Lehman Bros./Fannie Mae/Freddy Mac, and so many other big banks and corporations? You really think the holy, humble brothers in Brooklyn are above all that?
Please. I'll bet there's massive corruption somewere at the top of the Borg - money laundering, kickbacks, something, I dunno what the myriad of possibilities might be - but it's way way too much money for greedy human nature to ignore - all of it HIDDEN and UNACCOUNTABLE to anyone beyond the GB. That's all the reason needed to suspect something very dark and very ugly is going on.
Somebody above in this thread said the WTBTS probably has no more money that other religions of similar size - problem with that thought - most all those other religions publish their financial statements, which are regularly audited by outside firms - they are transparent and accountable to their devotees.
But since the WT is considered a "religion" not a business - hahaha - I'm afraid most governments are just not going to get involved investigating their fraud unless and until somebody gets caught red-handed breaking the laws - and the GB has plenty of high-powered JW and non-JW lawyers, accountants, and financial advisors to ensure that their doings fly under the radar.
But everybody makes a mistake sooner or later - in the case of this wicked, lying, bloodsucking cult, I sure hope it's sooner.
after missing 63 years of birthday celebrations, i'm making up for it in spades.
cake, presents & parties.
i tell everyone i meet that today is my birthday just to hear them say "happy birthday".
Every day is your birthday - I love it! Happy, happy, happy birthday, Mr. Quik - and many, many, many more!!!
like they say in the movies, "follow the money.
" the thought occurred to me the other day - the wt scam rakes in billions of dollars, and yeah some of that goes to operations and equipment.
but bethelites at farm and factory get only a bare little dorm room and a monthly pittance.
Yeah Mr. Flipper I'm sure it's much more convoluted and scammy than I'm aware of, that's why I'm asking the question. I remember in the 1970s the Society would never, ever publish ANY financial statements, and of course they have a list of scriptures as long as your arm to justify the secrecy. I swallowed the kool-aid without thinking then, but now 40 years later and knowing what I do of human nature, I just can't believe NOBODY at all is making a huge, hedonistic profit out of all that property, investment, and cash flow. Just wonder if anybody will ever do a Watergate-style investigation and actually follow the money trail to see where it leads. I can believe that the plain-living, oh-so-holy GB is just the front end, but who's living it up at the back? Thanks for your thoughts.
like they say in the movies, "follow the money.
" the thought occurred to me the other day - the wt scam rakes in billions of dollars, and yeah some of that goes to operations and equipment.
but bethelites at farm and factory get only a bare little dorm room and a monthly pittance.
Like they say in the movies, "Follow the money." The thought occurred to me the other day - the WT scam rakes in billions of dollars, and yeah some of that goes to operations and equipment. But Bethelites at farm and factory get only a bare little dorm room and a monthly pittance. Even the GB and their meek little subservient wives have, if I understand it right, only little apartments hardly better than the dorm rooms. The various WT societies and corps don't pay dividends to stockholders, or I've never heard that they do. And so I got to thinking - what's wrong with this picture?
Any other outfit with assets and revenues like they have, Somebody or bodies way up at the top or out to the side would be living mighty high on the hog, with high-class luxury 24/7 - penthouses, beach houses, private jets, limos, diamonds, pearls, champagne, party girls and rent boys, and on and on and on.
Is it really possible that all this vast effort and organzation is only for a few clueless old men and their submissive slave-wives to live in cramped little dorm apartments, with not even a Rolex to show for it? REALLY? Even ordinary Catholic parish priests in the US make out better than that, my Catholic friends tell me.
I'd like hear what others think, if that's all the good the money does for anybody at the top. Seems so unlike what usually happens at the end of the cash flow in any other outfit, secular or religious.
13 jul 2014. trottigy, on 12 jul 2014 - 9:25 pm, said:.
"yes, sadly it is only a matter of time before pedophilia and incest becomes an "alternative lifestyle".
it was true in parts of canaan and rome.
Ya know I'm not sure if the OP really equates gay marriage with "all morals are dead" or not. But folks - anyone who thinks that is seriously screwed up in their thinking. It's actually a continuation of the JW & Evangelical SCAPEGOATING (Leviticus 16) of homosexuality as being not merely a sin, but the absolute WORST of all possible sins. For centuries, legal and religious authorities used to define it as "the sin too horrible to be named among Christians": http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/P/PeccatumilludhorribileinterChristianosnonnominandum.aspx
(An example of non-JW thought control: if an idea is "too horrible" to even say the word, you can never even discuss the idea, can never question it, can you?)
Which is really, really, really stupid. Because 1) it makes no logical sense, and 2) it is obviously a psychological projection of straight men, like so many other things in the Bible (ladies, take note) - making gays out to be the scapegoat, the boogeyman, the worst of all possible sinners, gets the straight boys off the hook for "the worst" crimes of all, in a way.
The Bible is full of straight boys committing rape, murder, adultery, polygamy, and even genocide with gleeful abandon, and quite often with the full APPROVAL of Almighty God, who is a mighty good sport about all of that if you belong to his club. But two gay guys or gay gals doing anything with each other - even a simple kiss and no more - OMG THE UNIVERSE IS RUINED!!!!! WE MUST STAMP THAT OUT!! HANG 'EM!!
Which was an attitude embedded in the culture for a couple thousand years, only just now being seen for what it is: stupidity and scapegoating. Just like all those WT doctrines we were so sure were the complete and ultimate divine TRUTH - but came to realize were just the deeply flawed inventions of deeply flawed (straight, white) men.
The judge who was quoted above has no business being a judge if he can't reason any better than what was quoted. Same-sex marriage and incest are two entirely different things - apples and oranges. And pedophilia is something else again. He's just perpetuating the unspoken assumption that gayness is THE WORST THING IN THE WHOLE WORLD - you allow that, you have to allow everything. How stupid, crazy, illogical is that? What.A.Jerk.
He's also implying that gay men and lesbians are not capable of real, abiding love and commitment, nor capable of being "moral" in any sense, and are certainly not fully as human as he is, in his shiny, clean heterosexuality - because whatever he does can't be sin, can it? He's straight! And if he screws up now or then, hey God will forgive him! No biggie! But those homos, oh they are a completely different case - the "end of all morality." Right.
Pride, arrogance, and refusal of welcome and protection were the real sins of Sodom. They still are.
first of all i want to express my sincere gratitude to atlantis and his good friends for making this 2014 book available.. ------------.
as i see it, and i am absolutely open to contradiction, the wts appears to be giving another new meaning to this generation.
this time the term means all of his anointed followers, including his immediate disciples.
Appreciate ya, MASH.
first of all i want to express my sincere gratitude to atlantis and his good friends for making this 2014 book available.. ------------.
as i see it, and i am absolutely open to contradiction, the wts appears to be giving another new meaning to this generation.
this time the term means all of his anointed followers, including his immediate disciples.
Focus:
Back off, Jack. You are not the GB and I am not your whimpering little slave. Nobody whacks me with impunity.
You also - though obviously free of the cult, good for you - need to let go of the ruthless literal-mindedness that the Borg instilled in you.
I am well aware of all the enormous hurt, pain, and grief the Unfaithful and Wicked Servant has perpetrated these many years upon millions of unsuspecting JW dupes. I was one. And it nearly KILLED me too.
I won't go into the details of my life on this board but this beautifully written account by a young brother in Australia perfectly sums up the intensity of my own suffering and near-suicide too: http://www.freeminds.org/stories/growingupgay.htm
So again I say, Back off bud. I am a wounded veteran with deep, deep scars, and you are messing with the wrong guy. Get out of my face.
When I said the newfangled interpretation was funny, I meant it is so patently, mindlessly absurd as to be ridiculous on its face - no one but a small child or a baptized publisher could possibly read it without laughing out loud.
Which is how grown-up people put things concisely, in a single word, instead of having to stretch them out in page after page of booooooring detail, regurgitated word for freakin' word every Sunday morning. I daresay many other ex-dupes on this board and elsewhere agree with me.
But I forgive you, knowing as I do how long, long, long it takes to overcome the brainwashing of this evil cult. Now go and sin no more, bro.
please answer even if you don't know anything about it and don't care or don't participate.
being a born in, never allowed to participate, throughout school whatever i learned was in one ear and out the other.
i had forgotton almost everything.
EoM, your concern for people who've been misled or abused by the JW's is commendable - but your idealism is not well grounded in the realities of American law and government. For one thing, there is no law that says a religious body cannot have contradictory teachings - or even that a religious outfit cannot say untrue things (like, for example, the earth is flat or only 6,000 years old). There's no law that says a religious body can't dictate how their members live - the Amish, for example, are forbidden to have electric lights, automobiles, or even if memory serves me right, buttons on their clothes! Freedom of religious belief or practice - good, bad, or whatever - is deeply rooted in the US Constitution and in US law.
Of course, that's not a license to kill or injure, or steal or defraud, or rape or molest anyone: lots of religious leaders, many of them self-appointed, have gone to jail for doing such things, and even mainstream religious bodies have been severely fined or sued for allowing kids to be molested. So there is a limit to "freedom of religion" - it's not absolute. But it is an awfully big umbrella, and I encourage you to keep reading and learning where the courts have drawn the lines. If you haven't read the Wikipedia article on Freedom of Religion, it's a good place to start with lots of links to outside sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion
The point of your OP is not entirely clear because you begin by asking us to "please answer" something, but never get around to a specific question. Instead, you end with urging us all to write our representatives. Certainly any American can write their senators and representatives on any issue, and lots of people do - it's really easy through the official website usa.gov. But you need to understand that's often not nearly enough to get Congress to take any action. In recent years, just to take one example, millions of people have written Congress about their concerns over school safety and gun control - but despite a number of horrific, widely-reported massacres of children and adults in schools, colleges, and elsewhere, Congress has taken no action on this issue at all. So even if every single "ex-JW" on this board, or in the whole United States sat down and wrote a plea to Congress tonight, there is absolutely no guarantee that anything at all would happen. Politics is a complex game that sometimes produces good results, sometimes poor results, sometimes no results - and that's just reality, in this or any other country.
Plus, even if Congress were to pass some kind of law - your OP is not at all clear about exactly what you would like to see happen there - if any law oversteps the Constitutional boundaries between church and state, the courts can and probably will strike it down. So while I don't want to discourage you from seeking justice for victims of the Watchtower cult, I do hope you will read more, learn more, and think more clearly about just what it is you want to see happen, and how that can best be promoted under our system of government (and BTW, pretty much the same ideas and limitations would apply in every other modern, developed Western democracy).
So - clarify your goals, learn more, and research the most effective strategies for change, as all other activists do. I hope this helps.
