Posts by Tiresias

67

Preterism

by Chris Tann in

when i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.

one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.

even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.

Tiresias

Hello CT,

As a musician, you will appreciate the lyrics to the song written by Lennie Kravitz and Mick Jagger, God Gave Me Everything I Want:

MICK JAGGER LYRICS

"God Gave My Everything"

You can see it in a clear blue sky
You can see it in a woman's eyes
You can hear it in your baby's cries
You can hear it in your lover's sighs
You can touch it in a grain of sand
Yeah hold it right there
In the palm of your hand
Feel it 'round you everyday
And hear what I've got to say

God gave me everything I want
Come on
I'll give it all to you
God gave me everything I want
Come on
I'll give it all to you

I saw it in the midnight sun
And I feel it in the race I won
And I hear it in the windy storm
And I feel it in the icy dawn
And I smell it the wine I taste
And I see it in my father's face
And I hear it in a symphony
And I feel it in the love
You show for me

The message for me: 'we see things, not as they are, but as we are.' I felt it was necceary to write this in response to the Bible bashing, Bible burning respondents who attempt to hijack your post. Keep up the good work!

T

67

Preterism

by Chris Tann in

when i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.

one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.

even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.

Tiresias

Hello Chris Tann,

Superb synopsis of Preterism. For the benefit of others, I will chime in my understanding of this optic.

Preterism simply means “the past.” It interprets the prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. It is a way of making meaning, making sense of the scriptures, and making sense of our experience in relation to those writings.

Preterism, I believe, can help us do the following:

1) Acquire mental calm and clarity (freedom from fear);

2) Develop our own authority to read and interpret the Bible (versus an imposed interpretation);

3) Assess the interpretations and claims of others.

But I also believe Preterism can help us view the scriptures in a light that is much more radical and intellectually stimulating than is common. Commenting on the Revelation, Preterist David Chilton stated:

“Revelation is a prophecy about imminent events – events that were about to break loose on the world of the first century. Revelation is not about nuclear warfare, space travel, or the end of the world. Again and again it specifically warns that “the time is near!” St. John wrote his book as a prophecy of the approaching destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, showing that Jesus Christ had brought the New Covenant and the New Creation. Revelation cannot be understood unless this fundamental fact is taken seriously” (Days of Vengeance, p.6) (Italics mine).

I also propose that Preterism can obviate "crimestop" (blocking a heretical thought before it gets started) "doublethink" (holding two contradictory thoughts at the same time. E.g. "this" generation means also "that" generation). I hope this thread continues for the contribution it can make to this most important hermeneutic.

Thank you, again! I can see that a lot of thought (and love!) went into your post. Some of my own biblical research is featured on my web site below.

T

http://secretsynagogue.ca.angelfire.com/

17

THREE REASONS WHY MODERN CHRISTIANITY IS A MYTH

by Tiresias in

modern christianity is based on the notion of a universal outreach to the nations, begun in the first century.

however, a closer examination of the scriptures suggests that biblical concepts have been misunderstood and misapplied.

1) the "world" into which jesus was sent was israel.

Tiresias

Hello Jgnat,

Thank you for the reference to Frankl's "Man's Search For Meaning." I am referring to my copy as I write. I love how Frankl speaks of the Meaning of Life: "What matters…is not the meaning of life in general, but rather the meaning of a person's life at a given moment (p.108). "One should not search for an abstract meaning of life. Everyone has his own specific vocation or mission in life to carry out a concrete assignment which demands fulfillment" (p.109). Interesting how Frankl says "decent people will always remain a minority" (p.154).

I note that both Florence Nightingale and Victor Frankl were influenced by the Bible--even though the former was critical of organized religion. Frankl alludes to the scriptures on several occasions (pp.39, 89). Note also his reference to God on page 93.

My "mountain peak" metaphor was not intended to cast a shadow over the accomplishments of women and men like Nightingale and Frankl. I merely suggest that--for me--the Bible exemplifies how decent men and women often risked their lives to condemn the abuse of power and to champion the rights of the downtrodden. But in the context of my opening post I am suggesting that the Bible be approached, not as a prophetic, but as an historic work, an anthology of ancient Israelite literature.

Bye for now!

T

17

THREE REASONS WHY MODERN CHRISTIANITY IS A MYTH

by Tiresias in

modern christianity is based on the notion of a universal outreach to the nations, begun in the first century.

however, a closer examination of the scriptures suggests that biblical concepts have been misunderstood and misapplied.

1) the "world" into which jesus was sent was israel.

Tiresias

Hello Jgnat,

I'm not sure I understand your statement.

Could you please elaborate and provide an example?

Thank you!

T

17

THREE REASONS WHY MODERN CHRISTIANITY IS A MYTH

by Tiresias in

modern christianity is based on the notion of a universal outreach to the nations, begun in the first century.

however, a closer examination of the scriptures suggests that biblical concepts have been misunderstood and misapplied.

1) the "world" into which jesus was sent was israel.

Tiresias

To All,

I want to clarify that my opening post is in no way intended as an invective against Christianity. Rather, I acknowledge the contributions of derivative Christianity to democracy, health care, and human rights. Were it not for ersatz Christianity, we would not have food banks, labor activism, adult education, hospitals, and many other altruistic institutions. Men and women from diverse religious persuasions suffered and died for the quality of life many of us now enjoy.

What I hope to foster is an analysis of the lenses through which modern Christianity was conceived. I wish to foster critical thinking, not cynicism. Notwithstanding what I allege about the refraction of biblical light through the ages, I do believe that the Bible remains the highest peak in the mountain range of literature which may be called "great."

T

17

THREE REASONS WHY MODERN CHRISTIANITY IS A MYTH

by Tiresias in

modern christianity is based on the notion of a universal outreach to the nations, begun in the first century.

however, a closer examination of the scriptures suggests that biblical concepts have been misunderstood and misapplied.

1) the "world" into which jesus was sent was israel.

Tiresias

Hello Crazyguy,

The social-science commentary I quoted above states: "Bible translators and interpreters are essentially anachronistic when they assert that the New Testament Greek word "Ioudaios" means Jew and that "Ioudaismos" means Judaism in the sense of Jewishness." The authors submit that "Ioudaios" means the behavior typical of and particular to those from Judea." They quote the late second-century Roman writer Cassius Dio, who described all people living in Palestine as Judeans (p.4).

When used by Israelites, the binary term Judeans and Greeks applied as follows: "Judeans refers to Israelites resident in Judea, Galiliee, Perea, and nearby cities with high Israelite population (Antioch, Damascus, Alexandria). "Greeks" were Israelites in Roman Hellenistic cities with low Israelite populations" (p.371). To Hellenized Israelites, Judeans were "barbarians," "weak," and uncivilized.

The Scripture4all online interlinear translation of the scriptures accurately renders the term "Jew" as Judah-an.

T

17

THREE REASONS WHY MODERN CHRISTIANITY IS A MYTH

by Tiresias in

modern christianity is based on the notion of a universal outreach to the nations, begun in the first century.

however, a closer examination of the scriptures suggests that biblical concepts have been misunderstood and misapplied.

1) the "world" into which jesus was sent was israel.

Tiresias

Hello Terry,

Thank you for the site. Lots of fun!

Your post reminded me of a statement by adult educator Jack Mezirow: "Our interpretations are fallible and are often predicated upon unreliable assumptions" (p.35). The goal of transformative learning involves "a critical examination of the history, context, and consequences of their assumptions and premises" (p.225). I believe this forum has the potential to foster this kind of analysis.

Bye for now!

T

Reference:

Transformative Dimensions of Adult Learning (1991)

17

THREE REASONS WHY MODERN CHRISTIANITY IS A MYTH

by Tiresias in

modern christianity is based on the notion of a universal outreach to the nations, begun in the first century.

however, a closer examination of the scriptures suggests that biblical concepts have been misunderstood and misapplied.

1) the "world" into which jesus was sent was israel.

Tiresias

Hello Jgnat,

"Instead of attempting to claim authenticity by looking to the past, perhaps Christianity is better served by embracing it's evolution."

Symphony in print! Thank you!

I think you and I will agree that any claim to "authentic" Christianity is an attempt to control a set of ancient documents. That control results in "orthodoxy" [i.e. the correct way to think] and "ideology" [i.e. a system of ideas and ideals which tell us how to behave]. I continue to read the Bible, not as a blueprint for modern worship, but as a treasure trove of ancient wisdom. I see the Bible as an anthology of Israelite literature, as I have stated elsewhere.

My anxiety is aroused when I see biblical interpretations congeal into systems of power and control. As the playwright Vaclav Havel put it, people then 'serve systems rather than vice versa.' As Maria Montessori stated, our purpose in life is to create paradise for one another. Any evolution which creates an environment wherein we can cultivate our gifts, express our better humanity, and be seen, not as a means to an end, but as the goal itself, has my vote.

Bye for now!

T

17

THREE REASONS WHY MODERN CHRISTIANITY IS A MYTH

by Tiresias in

modern christianity is based on the notion of a universal outreach to the nations, begun in the first century.

however, a closer examination of the scriptures suggests that biblical concepts have been misunderstood and misapplied.

1) the "world" into which jesus was sent was israel.

Tiresias

Hello Garyneal,

A very thoughtful question. Basically, I believe that First Century Christianity completed Judaism. I don't simply mean that Judaism was the soil out of which Christianity grew. I mean Christianity was the capstone of Judaism, its "crown," so to speak. A modern analogy may illustrate my point: When we speak about union-management relations, we are usually referring to two entities within a specific company. Similarly, Judaism/Christianity were dual entities within the same religion. Both passed away in the First Century.

Consequently, I consider modern Judaism and Christianity to be mythical constructs, echoes of an obsolete religion.

Thank you.

T

17

THREE REASONS WHY MODERN CHRISTIANITY IS A MYTH

by Tiresias in

modern christianity is based on the notion of a universal outreach to the nations, begun in the first century.

however, a closer examination of the scriptures suggests that biblical concepts have been misunderstood and misapplied.

1) the "world" into which jesus was sent was israel.

Tiresias

Hello Jgnat,

Well said!

Attempting to re-create a "world" which passed away in the First Century [e.g., Jerusalem and its system becomes the modern world and its system] results false hope and unfounded fear.

The authors, whose research I cite, state: "Modern Christianity in all its forms has little to do with its ancestral expressions in the Jesus groups of Paul's day" (Malina and Pilch, p.3).

Thank you for responding.

T