Preterism

by Chris Tann 67 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Chris Tann
    Chris Tann

    When I started to do my research concerning TTATT, I started to see the scriptures in a different light. One thing I noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, Christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later. Even when Jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what THEY were soon to expect. When reffering to these subjects that Witnesses and other Christians believe are reserved for our day, these writers never imply that the fulfillment is a long way off. They never say `our people (Christians) will experience this thousands of years from now.`.

    At this time in my life I never heard of Preterism, however when I found that theirs a name for what I was discovering,and other people share this same understanding, I was thrilled. So, although as a Notsurist ( my made up label for my beliefs) Iam not positive on the Bible and certain teachings, I tend to lean toward preterism in understanding the Greek scriptures. This means I lean towards these beliefs:

    1. We are not in the last days ,waiting a cataclysmic end. Jesus' disciples asked in Matt. 24:3 " When will these things be...what will be the sign of your presence?" Jesus proceeds to tell them what they should expect at their time. Vs. 33 he says " when YOU see all these things, know that he is near at the doors". Jesus was speaking of his presence- vs. 30, 36,39. He was speaking directly to his disciples of that time period, not to us two thousand years later through his disciples.

    2. Jesus started ruling in kingdom power around or at 70c.e., not 1914 or our future time. In Luke 21:31 Jesus said that when his disciples see all things transpiring , that they should know that the Kingdom of God is near. Also in the book of Revelation John is told repeatedly that the events he records would happen "shortly", "soon", and he should not seal up the words of the scroll. Revelation deals with Christ coming in Kingdom power.

    3. A ressurection of certain holy ones as well as the rapture, happened in the first century. Matthew 27:52,53 , bodies of saints were raised, then after Jesus' resurection they went into Jerusalem and were seen by many. Do not be fooled by the NWT putting parenthesis in this verse, they are not in the Greek. They do this to make it harmonize with their doctrine. This account could be how the resurrection is described symbolically in Hosea 6:2-"He will make us alive after two days. On the third day he will make us get up...". Perhaps this is describing how the resurrection in Matthew takes place. First,the dead bodies are raised up, or as Hosea says; "made alive", not necessarily up and conscious. Then ,after Jesus is resurrected, they become conscious people walking about. As Hosea says ,"on the third day he will make us get up".

    Also in 1 Thess. Paul says those in his time who die in the Lord will be raised before the living Christians are snatched up. He makes it clear it will hapoen at their time, durring Christs presence. Did the rapture occur back then? Well I cant say for sure but there is no record of what really happened to faithful ones ,like all the Apostles. They seem to just disappear.

    So this is what I think, any comments?

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    Stop hanging onto the idea these ignorant fishermen understood anything. Get out there and live your one and only life before you waste it debating delusions from 2 ooo years ago...

  • cofty
    cofty

    I agree with every word in your first paragraph.

    The simple conclusion is that Jesus was a false prophet.

    Preterism is the equivalent of the "invisible presence". It's bullshit masquerading as profundity.

  • Chris Tann
    Chris Tann

    Hamster, live my life doing what? Getting drunk on weekends, cursing my mouth off, grow a beard and get a stupid tattoo? Woo hoo, what a great life. NOT!

  • objectivetruth
    objectivetruth

    Chris - I do believe in some preterrism, but I'm not to fond of labels, so I cant say how much I agree with it.

    As you continue studying,reading and learning everything will continue to become clearer.. What is important, is that you try your best to stay away from any Past Biases that you developed over the years.

    One thing I will say is that Preterism states that, Christians replaced The Jewish People, this is called supersessionism. This belief at times borders on Anti-Semitism and Blasphemy. I would recommend mend trying to,view things from a Jewish Perspective when considering the Prophecies of the End Days,, and with this view in mind, consider what has transpired with Israel,Jerusalem & The Jewish People in the past 150 Years.

  • objectivetruth
    objectivetruth

    Speaking of Past Biases.. You may want to reconsider your prejudice towards Beards.

    Every Prophet,Holy Man from Abraham to Jesus had a Beard. The reason is that it is required in the Mosaic Law.

    leviticus 19:27 "'You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard."

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    From reading the text carefully, I believe Jesus and Paul spoke of the present and future. The Kingdom is Now. The Christ is present. Yet the Church teaches Christ will come again. I see nuance. Just my opinion. Jesus definitely spoke of the present and so did Paul. They had a problem when devout Christians believing in an imminent parousia starting dying. Some NT books are devoted to this situation.

  • sloppyjoe2
    sloppyjoe2

    @chris tann

    Why is it that you believe living your life if it doesn't revolve around some form of belief system can only be what you suggest? I must have heard 100 JWs so that in my lifetime. If that's all you know what to do other than pursue religion, I'll be happy to give some suggestions.

    1. Pursue the work you love..too many of use get up dreading our jobs, go after what you love.

    2. Go to a University if you have not already done so.

    3. Learn a new language

    4. Pursue learning to draw/paint

    5. Learn to play a musical instrument

    6. Read the top 100 books of a particular topic that interests you.

    7. Learn to invest

    8. Travel

    9. Discover your biggest weaknesses and work on fixing them

    10. Meet people of different lifestyles and learn about them, do not judge them

    11. Volunteer in charity work

    12. Learn to fix a car

    13. Challenge your own physical conditioning

    14. Learn to cook

    There's a good start, no drinking, partying, cussing, or tattoos involved. You can shave everyday with any of these suggestions.

  • Chris Tann
    Chris Tann

    Objectivetruth- I appreciate your recommendations. However, I know there is nothing wrong with beards. I was being sarcastic. Alot of witness men who leave the organization grow beards as if its some great liberating thing to do. I was merely implying that if this is what Hamsterbait was refering to when he told me to live life ,I'm not impressed.

  • objectivetruth
    objectivetruth

    Hi Band - I Believe that there may be 2 Kingdoms.

    1. The Kingdom in Heaven, where God's Throne is.

    2. The Future Kingdom in Physical Jerusalem, where Jesus' Throne will be.

    "The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne." Rev 3:21

    "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth." Rev 5:10

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