gone are the days of getting into discussions about their beliefs.
doing major research to prove a position or watchtower doctrine is a thing of the past.
all they want from you is to surrender and accept everything they say as undeniable truth.. do you agree?.
“NVR2L8”: “Why attempt to explain your beliefs when they are already explained in the WT literature or reasoned out for you in the reasoning book.”
Well, the Reasoning From the Scriptures book quickly became old light, or dark light, don’t you know. That’s why the covers are such a dark shade of brown. . . . which is certainly an appropriate color for what’s inside.
my personal definition of a 'religious fanatic' is a person who believes that their religion is the only one that has the truth.
all other religions are considered apostate or the work of satan.
any attempt to present alternative views is met with either outright dismissal, or else pre-programmed answers supporting their current religion.
A typical JW: I’m not a fanatic! I know I’m not. The Faithful and Discreet Slave tell us JWs through the pages of The Watchtower that we are not fanatics. And the Faithful and Discreet Slave also tells us JWs that we are definitely not a cult. So, there you have it. . . . [brief awkward pause] . . . . So, can I leave you with these latest issues of The Watchtower and Awake! magazines? You know, if you look into our literature, you can see for yourself that we are not fanatics and that we certainly are not a cult. You had better take these magazines, because . . . . well, because, if you don’t joint our one-and-only true religion, they you and your children will definitely die at Armageddon!
i believe in god but i'm not sure of anything....what about you?.
Excellent thread, “minimus.”
I don’t believe in any of the “gods” which people worship, including that of the Bible (or any other “holy book”). This “God” and his son “Jesus” thing, I believe, is just another kind of cultural mythology – I call it “Christian mythology” (just as you have Hindu, native Indian, Egyptian, Greek, and Roman mythology). When you stop and look at the whole spectrum of religious beliefs, they always involve some kind of gods or demigods going back and forth between the earthly and heavenly/spiritual realms, performing some kind of magical feats or miracles, and divulging some kind of mystical or “divine,” hidden knowledge from the realm of the gods. Looking at it from a modern scientific, sociological, anthropological perspective, I think it’s all mythology (of one brand or another, depending where you were born). Religion is simply a projection, or reflection, of the human psyche, whereby all that is evil or good is represented by some devil or god which can punish or protect.
I believe that humanity at large is really in a sense living in a kind of “psychological thriller” in that there is a big “twist” at the end of it all – that “twist” being: there is no “god,” as such. There is simply nothing there – at least nothing that anybody thinks of.
I am, indeed, an agnostic. What this means for me is that I believe there could possibly be some kind of entity or set of processes which may fit the idea of “intelligent design,” but if and whatever that would be, I don’t believe it to be of any kind of form or nature which anybody seeks to describe in any contrived, humanly way. Whatever may be existing as such an entity or set of processes which humans would classify as “god” is not something which can be humanized, anthropomorphized, or otherwise “creaturized” in any form or manner whatsoever, any more than the photons (gage bosons) comprising electromagnetic radio waves. Regardless of any profound creativity or benevolence arising from the whole of what the concept of “god” may be, I believe that the entity of “god” would have a raw and fundamental essence and substance which is purely a mathematical phenomenon.
To put it as simply as I can: I believe that if there is anything which could fit the bill as being “god”; i.e., originator of all that exists, then I do not think that it would be anything like anybody thinks it to be. That’s the big twist: everybody is wrong.
so i'm reading another carl sagan book and he seems to invariably find a way to slam j-dubs in each one.
(i can't say i blame him.).
anyway, in this one he discusses the fact that the gospels give contradictory geneologies of jesus--differing lines back to david from joseph, and a different number of generations.
“hamsterbait”: “Stephen Hawking wrote Brief History of Time.”
You’re absolutely right. Stephen Hawking was indeed the one who wrote “A Brief History of Time.” I was actually thinking of the books “Broca’s Brain” and “Cosmos” – those ones were by Carl Sagan.
baa bull onn (knock knock).
baa bull onn (knock knock).
baa bull onn (knock knock).
“Greybeard,” I’m guessing that you are more of a right-brained, creative, artistic sort of person than a left-brained, mathematical/analytical/mechanical sort.
or put into other words:.
is armageddon included in in "all the things" that are to come to pass during the 'generation' that jesus spoke about?.
“prologos”: “. . . do not count on the Governing Body, FaDS to be around, they will have withdrawn before the climax is reached.”
Well, isn’t that just like those old geezers!
so i'm reading another carl sagan book and he seems to invariably find a way to slam j-dubs in each one.
(i can't say i blame him.).
anyway, in this one he discusses the fact that the gospels give contradictory geneologies of jesus--differing lines back to david from joseph, and a different number of generations.
“rebel8”: “. . . the geneology should trace back to Mary, since she was his bio mom, not Joseph.”
That’s quite a valid point. You would think that would be the case, but it only shows the misogynist Jewish – and thusly WT’s – view of women. I would wonder why Almighty Jehovah would bother “transferring” the life of his only-begotton son, Jesus, into the womb of a particular Jewish woman, thus becoming Jesus’ “biological” mother, and then not consider her family lineage but, rather, her husband Joseph’s. That would certainly seem to lend itself to the usual, typical stretching of the WT’s “headship principle” – all well, it’s just Jesus.
Carl Sagan was quite a smart man. (It’s funny – my long-time elder dad speaks highly of his book, “A Brief History of Time.”) I think Mr. Sagan must have owned some kind of anti-bullshit glasses. He could certainly see through something like the WTS like it was made of the clearest glass.
baa bull onn (knock knock).
baa bull onn (knock knock).
baa bull onn (knock knock).
“Greybeard”: “WE BOTH WENT TO THE RECENT CONVENTION ON CANNABIS! BEST ONE SO FAR! I WAS ABLE TO LAUGH THOUGH THE ENTIRE . . .”
LOL! I can just picture you sitting there at the convention laughing away. That would have been priceless to see. It would have sort of taken the edge off it for me.
or put into other words:.
is armageddon included in in "all the things" that are to come to pass during the 'generation' that jesus spoke about?.
The way I understand the WT’s interpretation is that the “Great Tribulation” is really referring to a complete package of items to occur right after the sufficient fulfillment of the nations ‘crying peace and security,’ beginning with the destruction of Babylon the Great by the seven-headed, ten-horned wild beast and the apparent “celestial phenomenon” to immediately follow (whether symbolic, literal, or both), and ending with the actual Armageddon. According to this, you could think of the “Great Tribulation” as being like a giant .ZIP or .RAR archive file which gets “unpacked” at that point immediately after the “peace and security” proclamation thing when Babylon the Great is about to be turned on, which then presents all the individual items, like the individual, “uncompressed” files which together formed the composite “zipped” archive file.
In other words, the big .ZIP or .RAR self-extracting archive file is just waiting to be double-clicked by Jehovah, unpacking what is referred to by Jesus as being “all these things” when he said at Matthew 24:34: “Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” (RNWT)
Jesus said in verse 21, “. . . for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now.” Then in verses 29 and 30, he said, “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
Regarding the quote by “leaving_quietly” mentioned above, “So, the tribulation does not culminate in Armageddon, according to Jesus. Right AFTER the tribulation, is when signs in heaven will be and when the "second coming" occurs,” that could not be correct. A correct rendering of that would read: “Right AFTER that specific part of the tribulation, . . .”; i.e., right after that initial phase of the Great Tribulation when Babyon the Great is to be turned on. The Great Tribulation refers to the whole thing – including Armageddon as the very last part of it.
baa bull onn (knock knock).
baa bull onn (knock knock).
baa bull onn (knock knock).
“Greybeard”: “I believe in Cannabis . . . If it wasn't for Cannabis, I would not be able to do any of this . . .”
I can tell.
