Narkissos

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Posts by Narkissos

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  45

  The Authorship of the Pastoral Epistles

  by ThiChi in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the pastoral epistles is the name given to 1 and 2 timothy and titus.

  each of these letters explicitly claims to be the work of the apostle paul, but the higher critical school has concluded that these letters were written by a disciple of paul's, sometime in the early second century, and that his name was affixed to them to lend them authority.

  this is so ingrained in liberal scholarship that it is taken for granted the letters are not from paul.

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  Narkissos

  Most of your points fall if you assume that the only assured Pauline corpus also excludes Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians -- not to mention the Lukan Paul in Acts. Apart from some passages in 2 Timothy which do look pauline (but the conclusion of Hebrews also shows a widespread tendency to paulinize an obviously non-pauline writing), in the Pastorals we are very far from Paul's interests, language, and communities.

  That the Pastorals are so often referred to from the 2nd century onward is natural because they are in tune with the Great (catholic) church creed and organization. In this context the Pastorals are crystal-clear, while the problematic of Galatians or Romans has become obscure.
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  6

  Best bible for cross reference and footnotes?

  by BeelzeDub in

  1. social
  2. current

  .

  what do you think is the best bible translation with regard to footnotes and cross reference information?

  mods; please move to bible topic forum.

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  Narkissos

  My knowledge of English Study Bibles is very limited, but I had a look at the NIVSB recently and wouldn't recommend it at all. It is heavily loaded with mainstream fundamentalism: its introductions consistently dismiss the most obvious results of common historical and literary criticism, and much of its footnotes are dedicated to explain away the differences between the texts and bring them in line with the "orthodox" catechism.

  Although the NIV translation may be generally better, I think a more honest (though conservative) approach can be found in the UBS Good News Study Bible.
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  15

  Acts of the Historical Apostle Paul

  by ThiChi in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the historical apostle paul

  sergius paulus inscriptions

  the bible records in acts chapter 13 verses 6 to 12 how when paul, barnabas and john mark visited paphos, on cyprus, at the start of paul's first missionary journey, they had a dramatic encounter with the roman governor (or proconsul) sergius paulus, which led to him becoming a follower of christ.

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  Narkissos

  The most noteworthy feature to me in the Sergius Paulus incident in Acts 13:7 is that it makes up the background for introducing the latin name of Paul (identical to Paulus in Greek) in v. 9, and identifying the latter to the one previously called Saul(os) (7:58 etc.). Add to that the fact that Paul is opposed to a Magus named Bar-Jesus (!) in a story very similar to Simon Magus' in chapter 8, and you can imagine a very complicated tradition history behind.

  One attempt at reconstruction is Eisenman's in http://www.depts.drew.edu/jhc/eisenman.html. I'm not quite convinced by what he writes (especially in his Qumran interpretation) but he at least shows the extent of the problem.
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  29

  666 or 616??

  by metatron in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  last night, on the discovery channel, they interviewed a researcher who analyzed a scrap of papyrus that recorded revelation.. he contended that the critical passage of the "number of the beast" actually read 616 in greek, not 666. he tried to apply.

  this to caligula thru numerology.. i had never heard of this variant reading before.. .

  metatron

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  Narkissos

  In the oldest manuscripts, the number is written in full spelling: hexakosioi hexèkonta hex (the repetition of hex = 6 being similar to our digit writing 666).
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  26

  Was Paul really a woman hater?

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for the discussin i will set aside questions about whether paul was was infact a literary creation of the gnostic xtians.

  "paul's" famous words at !

  tim 2:12-15 and i cor 14:34,35 that insist women be silent in the congretgations have spawned hundreds of years of female repression.

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  Narkissos

  PP: agreed. Just as a side comment, the "two in one" feature is a recurrent (and definitely Gnostic) motive in GThomas. Besides logion 22, we find it in 106a: "When you make the two into one, you will become sons of man" (compare 106b with l. 48; also l. 16, 23, 30).

  L. 61 is interesting because it implies another woman: "Jesus said: 'Two will rest on a bed. The one will die, the other will live.' Salome said: 'Who are you, man? You have gotten a place on my bed as one from one (emend.: as a stranger) and you have eaten from my table.' Jesus said to her: 'I am he who comes from the one who is always the same. I was given some of that which is my father's." [She answered:] 'I am your disciple!' 'Therefore I say: If someone is destroyed (emend.: becomes like God), he will become full of light. But if he becomes one, separated [from God], he will become full of darkness."

  It is often assumed that this widespread gnostic motive is used in a non-gnostic way in (postpauline) Ephesians 2:15, about Christ "making the two into one" -- applied to the ecclesiastic issue of Jews and Gentiles (but see also 5:31).
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  29

  666 or 616??

  by metatron in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  last night, on the discovery channel, they interviewed a researcher who analyzed a scrap of papyrus that recorded revelation.. he contended that the critical passage of the "number of the beast" actually read 616 in greek, not 666. he tried to apply.

  this to caligula thru numerology.. i had never heard of this variant reading before.. .

  metatron

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  Narkissos

  Isn't it amazing people need a scholar to tell them that a 1900 y.o. text might refer to its time, not ours?
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  34

  Anyone here ever been homeless?

  by maybesbabies in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i am curious, our family was homeless on and off for several years.

  i am trying to communicate to my little brother that growing up this way does not preclude one from a normal life.

  is anyone willing to share a story that i can pass on to him??

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  Narkissos

  Just for a few months after I was disfellowshipped (since I had been several years in Bethel and a few months after that pioneering, accommodated in a JW's family Parisian flat). Quite an experience, but I didn't care too much since I had no family at that time.
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  46

  What is more important to understand...

  by Siddhashunyata in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  moral principles, doctrine , prophecy , ourselves ?

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  Narkissos

  Perhaps, that there is a limit to understanding.
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  56

  Most despicable Bible texts

  by logansrun in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  of course, there are so many to choose from.

  one of my favorite examples of pure goulish evil is found in psalm 137:8,9:.

  "o daughter of bablyon, you devastator!

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  Narkissos

  SLH: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/62942/1.ashx
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  26

  Was Paul really a woman hater?

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for the discussin i will set aside questions about whether paul was was infact a literary creation of the gnostic xtians.

  "paul's" famous words at !

  tim 2:12-15 and i cor 14:34,35 that insist women be silent in the congretgations have spawned hundreds of years of female repression.

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  Narkissos

  I agree that 1 Corinthians 14:34f is dubious (and that the Pastorals are certainly postpauline).

  However, 1 Corinthians 11:3-16 is certainly Pauline: it tries to restrict the charismatic freedom of the Hellenistic communities (which may have protognostic overtones) and does so on a conservative "creation" basis. Sounds like Paul doesn't feel that sex equality is worth the clash with Judaism (such as will happen on circumcision in Galatians). Could it be that "neither Jew nor Greek" is more important to him (I mean, personally) than "neither male nor female"?

  As for the Gnostic (or protognostic) approach, the concluding logion of GThomas (114) is interesting to put it in the historical context (which is not nearly our modern view of natural equality): "Simon Peter said to them: 'Let Mary go away from us, for women are not worthy of life.' Jesus said: 'Look, I will drag her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living male spirit being similar to you. But I say to you: 'Every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven.'"