Narkissos

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Posts by Narkissos

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  22

  Greatest tribulation upon Judaism?

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for jws and other fundementalists the destruction of jerusalem in 70ce is a unquestionably the fullfillment of the words in mark 13.19. however to see the city's leveling as the " tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now" as referring to death numbers we must surmise the death toll to have been horrific indeed!

  josephus is of course oft quoted for the numbers.

  according to him 97,000 were taken prisoner while 1,100,000 were killed.

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  Narkissos

  http://www.depts.drew.edu/jhc/RPeisenman.html
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  79

  Do you still believe in God?

  by IT Support in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm a recent departee and am now re-evaluating all my previous beliefs and there's none more fundamental.

  however, i'm not sure where to start: i'm sure i don't need to say there's an enormous amount of nonsense out there.

  frankly, in spite of their other stupid teachings, i am considering reviewing again the articles in wt library as i think they do try to sincerely prove the existence of god.

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  Narkissos

  Realistically , I don't.

  I've a horrible feeling I may end up reaching the same conclusion, though I'd far prefer it would be otherwise...

  Why "horrible"? How can you know what it is like being an atheist?

  Actually I think I understand your feelings. I have been very anxious myself, some years ago, about the idea of "losing faith". But to me admitting I didn't believe in "God" anymore was not "losing faith" at all. It was rather "walking by faith", as it were, on an unexpected path. What I loved in "faith", or in the Bible, is still here -- and I feel the idea of God was more of a hindrance than a help to it -- but that's only my view.

  Are you suggesting there was no concept of God before the 6th century BC?

  Yes, definitely. I mean the concept of "God" with capital "G", which is very different from, though tributary to, the older mythological and polytheistic concept of gods (and goddesses).

  Surely even the written record of the Bible is around a thousand years older, never mind the many 'pagan' concepts of God that went before those (and from which many of the characteristics of the Biblical God is allegedly drawn)?

  Check any recent critical Bible introduction (from a non-fundamentalist Bible edition for example): you will realize the process of writing the texts which now make up the Old Testament hardly began before the 8th century BC, and that all the former texts were subject to monotheistic rewriting after the Babylonian exile (6th century BC). Still the old polytheistic view, in which Yhwh is just one god among many others, show in many places...

  I'm afraid my knowledge of Nietzsche is sadly lacking (my sole 'further education' was attending the Pioneer Service School!). What was his point?

  I attended the Pioneer School too instead of going to college, but there's still plenty of time to read when you're out! I suggest his masterpiece Thus spake Zarathoustra (very Gospel-like in style), and also the provocative The Antichrist as an introduction to Nietzsche's thinking.

  What are 'the best of philosophical arguments for the existence of God' and where can I find out more about them?

  It depends what kind of arguments you are sensitive to. The classical, metaphysical "proofs" of God's existence have been developed by a number middle-age Church Doctors such as St. Anselm or St. Thomas. After the collapse of metaphysics, many attempts have been made at giving a new base for "God". Epistemological in Descartes' Discours de la méthode, moral in Kant's Practical Reason... For one time I was quite fond of Kierkegaard's paradoxical view of God, or Emmanuel Lévinas' humanistic and poetical vision of "God" as the "other's face"... However, I came to realize the definitions of "God" I was mostly attracted to didn't suit the common meaning of the word "God" -- so I finally preferred to confess my atheism, while feeling free to refer to "God" (or "gods") as a metaphor...

  Wherever it may lead you, the path of "faith" as I understand it implies reading (preferably NOT WT or fundy stuff), thinking and above all living...

  Take care,

  Narkissos
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  5

  Quran Hoax

  by Yerusalyim in

  1. social
  2. current

  i went to a prayer breakfast this morning.

  the guest speaker was congressman joe wilson from south carolina.

  as a member of the house armed services committee he's done some traveling to south west asia (read iraq).

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  Narkissos

  Very interesting. I have no idea about the origin of the saying, and it may be difficult to find inasmuch as oral tradition is still very active in most Moslem countries.

  Being a "descendent of the Prophet", however, is hardly a clue to secure information. In Islam it is a very common nobiliary title, applying to hundreds of thousands of people. In Iran, for instance, every person with "Seyyed" in his/her name is supposed to be a "descendent of the Prophet": my wife is, and her knowledge of Islam is very limited. An academic grade from the madraseh (theological school) would have been much more meaningful...
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  79

  Do you still believe in God?

  by IT Support in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm a recent departee and am now re-evaluating all my previous beliefs and there's none more fundamental.

  however, i'm not sure where to start: i'm sure i don't need to say there's an enormous amount of nonsense out there.

  frankly, in spite of their other stupid teachings, i am considering reviewing again the articles in wt library as i think they do try to sincerely prove the existence of god.

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  Narkissos

  Hello Ken,

  Realistically, I don't. My main basis is the very history of the concept of God, which had a beginning (say, in the 6th century BC with Deutero-Isaiah = Isaiah 40-55), a limited geographical and cultural scope (following the development of Judaism, Christianity and Islam) and an end as far as mainstream Western culture is concerned (as finely expressed by Nietzsche). The metaphysical and scientific arguments are less relevant to me, just because they do not correspond with my frame of mind.

  However, I am still interested in gods as subjects of mythology, and God as subject of theology, inasmuch as they are part of our cultural and literary inheritance.

  I am sure the WT makes a sincere though shallow attempt at proving the existence of God, since it is an essential part of its power over people. However, to be honest to theism, I don't think it represents the best of philosophical arguments for the existence of God -- even though what I have seen elsewhere doesn't convince me either.
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  77

  Resurrection Appearance to James the Just

  by Leolaia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  apostle paul provides an early list of jesus' resurrection appearances in 1 corinthians 15. it is important because this list was written before our canonical gospels were written and thus serves as an independent source of information.

  paul writes:"christ died for our since, in accordance with the scriptures; that he was buried and that he was raised to life on the third day, in accordance with the scriptures; that he appeared first to cephas and secondly to the twelve.

  next he appeared to more than 500 of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died; then he appeared to james, and then to all the apostles; and last of all he appeared to me too; it was as though i was born when no one expected it.

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  Narkissos

  Just found the link to the article by Robert M. Price which Peacefulpete mentioned a few posts earlier:

  http://www.hermann-detering.de/evolution_of_the_pauline_canon.htm

  It might be the basis for another thread.
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  20

  The Mystery Person of Luke 9:49, WTBTS Friend of Foe?

  by Valis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "and john answered and said, 'master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us.

  ' and jesus said to him, 'do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is for us'.

  " (luke 9:49,50, nkj).

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  Narkissos

  In the "Greatest Man" book, chapter 63:

  Further Corrective Counsel

  WHILE Jesus and his apostles are still in the house in Capernaum, something besides the apostles? argument over who is the greatest is discussed. This is an incident that may also have occurred on their return to Capernaum, when Jesus was not personally present. The apostle John reports: "We saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he was not accompanying us."

  Evidently John views the apostles as an exclusive, title-holding team of healers. So he feels that the man was performing powerful works improperly because he was not part of their group.

  However, Jesus counsels: "Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one that will do a powerful work on the basis of my name that will quickly be able to revile me; for he that is not against us is for us. For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink on the ground that you belong to Christ, I truly tell you, he will by no means lose his reward."

  It was not necessary for this man bodily to follow Jesus to be on his side. The Christian congregation had not yet been set up, so his not being part of their group did not mean that he was of a separate congregation. The man really had faith in Jesus? name and thus succeeded in expelling demons. He was doing something that compared favorably with what Jesus said was deserving of a reward. Jesus shows that for doing this, he will not lose his reward.

  But what if the man was stumbled by the words and actions of the apostles? This would be very serious! Jesus observes: "Whoever stumbles one of these little ones that believe, it would be finer for him if a millstone such as is turned by an ass were put around his neck and he were actually pitched into the sea."

  Jesus says that his followers should remove from their lives anything as dear to them as a hand, a foot, or an eye that may cause them to stumble. Better to be without this cherished thing and enter into God?s Kingdom than to hold on to it and be pitched into Gehenna (a burning rubbish heap near Jerusalem), which symbolizes eternal destruction.

  Jesus also warns: "See to it that you men do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that their angels in heaven always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven." He then illustrates the preciousness of "little ones" when he tells about a man who possesses a hundred sheep but loses one. The man will leave the 99 to search for the lost one, Jesus explains, and on finding it will rejoice more over it than over the 99. "Likewise," Jesus then concludes, "it is not a desirable thing with my Father who is in heaven for one of these little ones to perish."

  Isn't that nice?
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  11

  Hello

  by NEPA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i stumbled on this site quite by accident, looking for something else on google.

  i'm quite surprised to see a forum for jw's.

  i thought i might as well just pop in and say hello.

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  Narkissos

  Welcome Nepa!

  Personally I never reached the half of my posting ability...
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  26

  wow what an amazing site

  by happehanna in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just found it.

  i had been surfing around was born into the jw faith and was a po's wife for about 15 years and am now out in the big bad world and finding it slightly awesome.

  interested to see what happens now on in.

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  Narkissos

  Welcome!
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  90

  What Is The Stupidest Rule You've Encountered As a Witness?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one rule that i never could understand is that if you were studying with an unbelieving husband, you could associate with him, even as couples, but if a person was considered a "weak" witness, it was best to avoid any association until that person changed......what dumb rule or belief comes to your mind??

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  Narkissos

  Too great a choice!

  Well... not clinking glasses when having a drink with some friends; not saying "bless you!" when someone sneezes (but this one is perhaps especially French, for the formula is "à vos souhaits" = "to your wishes")...
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  13

  generation change

  by littlemike in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello this is my first topic on this forum.. i left the jws 18 months ago and am still recovering.

  it was after reading crisis of conscience that i was brave enough to leave although i had serious doubts before i was always scared in case it was right!!

  and i was wrong.. however when they changed the generation in 1995 that caused me great trauma as i had accepted that as absolute fact and based my life on it.

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  Narkissos

  Welcome Littlemike!

  Cannot answer your question though, for I was out in 86...