Posts by Narkissos

8

Sheol, place of questioning

by peacefulpete in

sheol the land of the dead has been much misunderstood by jws and mainstream xtians.

the theology of ancient canaan and mesopotamia surprisingly had a very indisticnt impression of life after death.

while speaking of a land of the dead the shadowy existance there was not formally developed.

Narkissos

Interesting. This reminds of Egyptian and Graeco-Roman mythology (cf. the river Styx in Hades). The only ordeal I know in the OT is Numbers 5, implying drinking water...

Is shuala an equivalent to the Akkadian arallu, the domain of Nergal, more commonly held as the equivalent of Hebrew she'ol? As far as I remember, from the descent of Ishtar and Gilgamesh epic, it is a subterranean ocean one has to cross in order to reach it.

About the etymology of she'ol, there are a number of views. The most common is she'ol as the place/god asking for, i.e. claiming, the deceased? The connection to sh`l, "deep", or sh`h, desert, are more unlikely on linguistic grounds.

Another possibility (?) would be the place for the questions or inquiry of the living, connected with the traditional (later forbidden) practice of necromancy: so in Deuteronomy 18:11 "consulting the ghosts" is sh'l 'ôv. This is particularly apparent in the Samuel / Saul (Sha'ul) tradition: Samuel is asked to Yhwh, asked for by Yhwh (1 Sam 1:17,20,27f; 2:20). Israel will ask Samuel for a king, who will be Sha'ul, "asked for" (8:10; 12:13,17,19). When Sha'ul cannot ask anything from Yhwh anymore (28:6), he will ask Samuel from she'ol (28:16; 1 Chronicles 10:13). A similar pun is involved in Isaiah 7:11: "Ask (sh'l) a sign of the LORD your God; let it be deep as she'ol or high as heaven."

On your thesis, my main problem would be the lack of evidence for "judgment of the dead" in the Bible she'ol. This idea doesn't seem to appear before 1 Henoch or 4 Ezra...

93

Is the man Jesus Christ also the LORD?

by hooberus in

on several earlier threads i posted scriptures showing that jesus christ is now a man, and is not an angel:

o give thanks to the lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.

(note: this must be the lord alone see isaiah 44:24)

Narkissos

LT

Here the "angel of the LORD (YHWH)", evidently "the Word", is called "the LORD".

Evidently "the Word"?

Hoob

So are active witnesses (who believe that Jesus is a created angel) Christians too?

Aren't they?

What about the ancient Arian evangelizers of Central Europe? Or the non-trinitarian believers on this board?

7

To Abaddon and anyone else interested

by hornetsnest in

to abaddon and anyone else interested: .

i turned back to the babylon books, both of them.

?thou prince of the gods warrior,.

Narkissos

This is the Gilgamesh epic, including a portion of the older Atrahasis epic (about the flood).

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/GILG.HTM

18

Song of Solomon/Tammuz

by peacefulpete in

the song of solomon (canticles) has captured the imagination of jewish and xtian theologians for 2000 years.

the overt eroticism and choppy storyline have led exegetes to assume some mystical symbolism in the love story.

they are right in this but not as they expect.

Narkissos

Leolaia:

Very interesting!

So in Ugarit Shahar and Shalem are actually not twins but half-brothers from two different mothers, (respectively?) Asherah and Raham (I had missed that point).

Leaving the Song of Solomon for a moment (your reconstitution makes a lot of sense), I can't help trying to bring this information into Psalm 110:3 as referring to the divine begetting (actually, childbearing, for the images are feminine) of the Jerusalem king.

One possible reading would be:

`immkha nedivoth beyôm cholelkha / beharare qodesh, meracham (mi)shachar / ketal yelidtikha...

To you the virtue in the day of your birth / on the holy mountains, from Womb (Raham) from/of Dawn (Shahar) / like Dew (Tal) I gave birth to you...

It's difficult to appreciate the variation in details between Ugarit's and Jerusalem's traditions (was Raham portrayed as the mother of Shahar? was Shahar substituted for Asherah?), yet the similarities seem pretty obvious...

93

Is the man Jesus Christ also the LORD?

by hooberus in

on several earlier threads i posted scriptures showing that jesus christ is now a man, and is not an angel:

o give thanks to the lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.

(note: this must be the lord alone see isaiah 44:24)

Narkissos

Strictly speaking, in Trinitarian theology Jesus is not a "man" in the sense of "human person". He is a divine person (hypostasis) assuming (enhypostasis) an impersonal (anhypostatic) human "essence" (ousia) in addition to his own divine essence. Check your own doctrine.

18

Song of Solomon/Tammuz

by peacefulpete in

the song of solomon (canticles) has captured the imagination of jewish and xtian theologians for 2000 years.

the overt eroticism and choppy storyline have led exegetes to assume some mystical symbolism in the love story.

they are right in this but not as they expect.

Narkissos

In view of the linguistical elements pointing to a very late creation, the hypothesis of a mythological synthesis including Canaanite (Baal/Anat), Babylonian (Tammuz/Ishtar) or even Greek (Dionysos/Aphrodites) features seems to be the best...

2

Have a question about Herod...

by Country Girl in

i saw the passion of the christ this weekend.

at one point, during the movie, they took jesus to king herod.

reading the bible, i found out that king herod was king of judea.

Narkissos

Herod Antipas (4 B.C. - 39 A.D.) was the son of Herod the Great (37-4 B.C.). He was actually tetrarch of Galilee (Luke 3:1) and Perea (not Judea). Contrary to the Gospels' terminology he never actually succeeded in being a "king". He is connected to the death of John the Baptist by the Synoptic Gospels (Mark 6:14ff//), and to the death of Jesus only by Luke (23:8-12; cf. 9:7ff; 13:31f; Acts 4:27). The reason for this literary and theological, not historical, connexion, have been discussed in the following thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/66538/1.ashx

348

God does exist...

by czarofmischief in

jw
friends

earlier a thread emerged, as they do so often, on whether or not god existed.

i stated that he does, unequivocally and without doubt.

i refused to preface the statement with the phrase "i believe".

Narkissos

Czar,

Thanks for sharing.

One point you made is one I repeatedly tried to make, i.e. discussion about "God" is only meaningful on a subjective level -- starting from one's own experience and way of expressing it within a given tradition of belief and language. Prayer as an essential phenomenon of humanity, overlapping the borders of monotheism, polytheism and even atheism, is the starting point indeed.

I don't believe in "God" actually, but I do take prayer seriously. It's been a part of my life which I can't deny, even if I now have to account for it in "atheistic" terms.

Take care,
Narkissos

20

Canaanite legend quoted in 2 Samuel 1:21?

by Leolaia in

the legend of aqhat, one of the great epic myths preserved in the ugaritic archive at ras shamra, was popular in some form in israel and judah and shows its traces in the ot and later jewish literature.

ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3 makes several passing references to the legend and its hero, an ancient semi-divine king named danel renowned for his wisdom and healing powers.

danel was one of the rephaim, a primeval race of demigod kings who linger on as spirits in sheol and who were revered by the canaanites in ancestor worship (cf.

Narkissos

In Israel there is clearly a fusion of El and Baal features.

The jealous Yhwh riding on the clouds is clearly a Baal motif. The "chairman" in the assembly of gods is equally clearly an El motif. Maybe the cherubim (cf. Mesopotamian karibu) belong to both, as they can be both mobile (winged) and static (as temple guardians)... Let's wait for Leolaia's oracle...

20

Canaanite legend quoted in 2 Samuel 1:21?

by Leolaia in

the legend of aqhat, one of the great epic myths preserved in the ugaritic archive at ras shamra, was popular in some form in israel and judah and shows its traces in the ot and later jewish literature.

ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3 makes several passing references to the legend and its hero, an ancient semi-divine king named danel renowned for his wisdom and healing powers.

danel was one of the rephaim, a primeval race of demigod kings who linger on as spirits in sheol and who were revered by the canaanites in ancestor worship (cf.

Narkissos

Sargon: Psalm 82 is probably the most obvious example:

God (elohim, emendation for Yhwh) has taken his place in the council of El (edath-El) ;
in the midst of the gods (elohim) he holds judgment:
"How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked?
Give justice to the weak and the orphan;
maintain the right of the lowly and the destitute.
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked."
They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk around in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
I say, "You are gods (elohim),
children of the Most High (`elyôn), all of you;
nevertheless, you shall die like mortals,
and fall like any prince."
Rise up, O God (elohim = Yhwh), judge the earth;
for all the nations belong to you!