Narkissos
JoinedPosts by Narkissos
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6
prove about Canon NT
by marcopolo inwhat evidence there is in the first 3 centuries about the canon of the new testament.
as we have today.
prove,tests, who has collected all the books.
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65
Tower Of Babel
by Blue Grass innote:this was a post i made on another thread but i felt it was off topic so i giving it it's own thread.. someone(who i can't remember) on a thread(which i can't remember) said the tower of babel story is proven false because some languages evolved from others and thus that was another strike against the bible as being fiction.
however this person doesn't realize that there are languages on this earth that has absolutely no relation whatsoever such as chinese-english, spanish-arabic, greek-xhosa, etc.
not to mention all of the ancient languages that are now extinct due to invading countries forcing their own language on other countries.
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Narkissos
Following on journey-on's post, there are a lot of fascinating and "spiritual" themes in the story in the Genesis context.
City, civilisation, (vertical) building as a result of artificial technique (v. 3, bricks in Mesopotamian fashion vs. Canaanite/Israelite stone building) and coordinated collective effort (the repeated cohortative "let us," v. 3f) as opposed to (horizontal) wandering and scattering (v. 2, 8f); the divine introduction of difference (linguistical and cultural) which puts a limit to the upward movement and reintroduces diversity as an essential dimension of human culture. "Let us make a name for ourselves" vs. "I will make your name great," the promise to Abram (12:2) as he leaves his country and city.
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65
Tower Of Babel
by Blue Grass innote:this was a post i made on another thread but i felt it was off topic so i giving it it's own thread.. someone(who i can't remember) on a thread(which i can't remember) said the tower of babel story is proven false because some languages evolved from others and thus that was another strike against the bible as being fiction.
however this person doesn't realize that there are languages on this earth that has absolutely no relation whatsoever such as chinese-english, spanish-arabic, greek-xhosa, etc.
not to mention all of the ancient languages that are now extinct due to invading countries forcing their own language on other countries.
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Narkissos
Imo you can learn more about the (fictional) nature of the Babel story by comparing it with ancient Mesopotamian legends (see the last post in the above thread, which points out that it is a conflation of two independent stories, only one of which had to do with the confusion of languages) than by comparing it to the actual history of languages...
And fwiw, in my book "fiction" does NOT equal "load of crap"... it is an excellent story imo.
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22
Lazarus
by PSacramento inwhat happend to lazarus, the one that jesus ressurected?.
it is "hinted" that there was a plot to kill him to disprove of his ressurection.. anyone know?.
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Narkissos
The extant Gospel is clearly the result of several successive literary developments: as the climax in a series of "signs," the Lazarus story belongs to the concluding part of an early unit ending in chapter 12; what follows from chapter 13 onward (to which the anonymous "beloved disciple" belongs) is not one but a series of later developments (e.g. chapters 15--16 modifying and expanding on chapter 14, chapter 17 and the Passion story being also relatively independent units, and chapter 21 being obviously one of the latest additions after the conclusion of chapter 20). Even though the BD figure was likely a development of the Lazarus character in chapter 13 for instance, it is by no means certain that this "identification" still works in chapter 21 which seems to have "political" / "diplomatical" objectives, i.e. setting a viable compromise for the coexistence of the "Johannine" community and/or tradition with(in) the "Great Church" identified with Peter's leadership. At that point the beloved disciple is definitely not a miracle story character, but the claimed source and warrant of Johannine tradition, i.e. a "historical" apostle at least in a broad sense (whether he was already identified as "John the apostle" is difficult to say, but that he could be identified with some important figure of the common Christian tradition was certainly important).
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Witness Bible altered text Genisis 3:6 to show the "Tree of knowlege" had no "magical powers' Cover up! Shock!
by Witness 007 inmy eyes fell out of my head when i found this....i always thought the tree of knowlege had "magic powers" but the watchtower said no, no it's just symbolic.. this is how the verse reads in the nwt bible.
gen 3:6 "the woman saw that the tree was good for food and it was something to be longed for to the eyes, the tree was desirable to look upon......." {repeats the same verse twice!}.
check out the nwt footnote study version.
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Narkissos
angel eyes:
The tree did impart knowledge / insight.
... for God knows (yd`) that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God / the gods, knowing (yd`y) good and bad." So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew (yd`w)that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made loincloths for themselves.
(...) Who told (or revealed, hgyd) you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?
(...) See, the man has become like one of us, knowing (ld`t)good and bad.
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Witness Bible altered text Genisis 3:6 to show the "Tree of knowlege" had no "magical powers' Cover up! Shock!
by Witness 007 inmy eyes fell out of my head when i found this....i always thought the tree of knowlege had "magic powers" but the watchtower said no, no it's just symbolic.. this is how the verse reads in the nwt bible.
gen 3:6 "the woman saw that the tree was good for food and it was something to be longed for to the eyes, the tree was desirable to look upon......." {repeats the same verse twice!}.
check out the nwt footnote study version.
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Narkissos
Good find, I didn't remember that either: the NWT main text seems to interpret lehaskil (1) of literal sight (against its usual sapiential use, insight, intelligence, understanding), and (2) the tree/fruit as the object rather than the cause of (in-)sight, which makes incredibly poor sense in the context. One could wonder if it is a naïve extrapolation from English syntax (e.g. "good to see"). The strangest thing to me is that the wording of the footnote seems to suggest that the LXX was chosen against the MT, the latter being read as "Lit., 'to impart wisdom (intelligence, prudence)'", i.e. as causative hiph'il (which is likely in this context although not absolutely necessary). But the LXX uses a cognitive verb, not one of literal sight (katanoèsai).
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Whats up with all those crazy people who have begun posting here?
by bohm init seem to me that over the relative little time i have been here there has been a dramatic increase in crazy people, ie.
people who think they are god, create alternative profiles just to distract, write incoherent bullshit in all-caps, bring up the same tired paranoid rants again and again, etc.
now i dont doubt that many of these people really need professional help, and perhaps having a lot of people from here doing a mix of rediculing them and trying to convince them to see a doctor will eventually help them, but i feel that its something which distract the focus from those who have something coherent to say, and those who are sincere in asking for help.
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Narkissos
I don't think the number of "crazies" (which has included some nice, lovable, and occasionally interesting characters over the years) is rising, I rather feel that the interest and participation of other kinds of posters is steadily waning, making the former more visible.
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25
the full english
by highdose inin my privious thread about sunday mornings i noticed alot of people , including me sited having a full english breakfast.
but the contents of that seemed to change with every person.
so just what exactly does make the traditional full english?.
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Narkissos
You can eat properly in England if you have breakfast three times a day -- Hitchcock puts something like that on the lips of the police inspector in Frenzy whose wife is learning French cooking and trying it on him... :)
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Are the GB/FDS and the "Domestics" still the same people?
by Doug Mason inthe grammar of matthew 24:45 46 (nwt) reads as follows:.
(a) who really is the faithful and discreet slave.
(b) whom his master appointed over his domestics,.
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Narkissos
It's really funny how the WT has to dance around what is possibly its main "prooftext" (for internal use at least) when it could use it in a way more straightforward manner (were it not for its own interpretive tradition).
The text is about church authority/leadership after all. Only it is a parable, not a prophecy, opposing two ideal types of leaders (the faithful and discreet slave / the evil slave) rather than two actual classes of people or organisations. Warning any and all church leaders/teachers that they may end up being judged positively OR negatively depending on how they perform. Which of course implies that the moment of judgement (the arrival of the Master/Lord) is yet to come.
If they used that text a little more contextually, they could apply it (although non-exclusively) to their Governing Body (FDS) in its relationship to the rank & file (domestics, whether "anointed" or not): this would correspond to the average JW belief which practically equates the GB with the FDS in its role of providing "food" for everybody. But of course the other side of the parable would equally apply. The GB might potentially be judged as "the evil slave". Instead of warranting their authority unconditionally, the text would question how they use it (which is precisely its point).
Shifting to a more correct understanding of the relationship between the slave and the domestics while maintaining the concept of a past and final positive judgement on the slave (hence a class / fulfilled prophecy approach, against the perspective of the text) might be a possible compromise, but that would require defining the identity of "the (modern-day) slave" in a way that can apply both then and now, and I can't see how that can be done other than identifying it as the WT society itself. But the distinction between the GB and the WT as developed in the 70s runs against it. Maybe Fred Franz had sensed the problem...
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Do JW's believe that Moses wrote the 1st five books?
by homeschool inwell, i'm a few chapters into who wrote the bible, by richard elliot friedman (thanks, primate, for the suggestion!
)...there's no way i could explain the book to you, but i can see exactly what it's saying.
the author really puts it in layman's terms to show how many people/men wrote the bible.
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