Posts by Ajax

77

Just quit quietly - the law is on your side!

by Ajax in

jw
friends

freedon of religion guarantees any individual the legal right to abandon any religion at any time for any reason.. if you are a citizen of a country which champions human rights, then your government doesn t care what religion you join, but they will uphold your freedom to join it, without interference, coercion or persecution.

your countries human rights legislation will conversely uphold your rights when it comes time to abandon any religion you so choose.

those (elders) who incite others interfere, coerce or persecute those who have left will be in transgression of the human rights statutes.. a person is only obligated to ecclesiastic law if he exposes himself to it or transgressed it while still a member of a religious community.. when your time comes to abandon the jw-wt cult, do it while still in good standing, be proactive - be decisive -put it in writing!..and do it before the hounders set sights on you.. write a card or letter with as much or as little explanation as you one day might wish to share with pharisees and lawyers.. take this card to a notary public to have your signature witnessed and have the writing overstamped in several places with the date.

Ajax

TD -

Trope - commonly recurring literary or rhetorical devices or cliches used in creative works..

Thanks for the great new word. And believe me, your comedic trope ocurred to me the very first post I made. But then I thought

¨What if a person really did quit before they were fired?¨

Watchtower already has nothing to offer intellectuals, the socially aware, freedom seekers, activists, humanitarians, environmentalists, the liberated of any stripe, those of other viewpoints.

They have no interest whatever in transparency of a multibillion dollar enterprise subsidized by tax dollars, and lie to their own simpleton members.

They will ultimately fire every single person who doubts, wonders, questions, slacks, slows or fades.

They will fire each and every person who dares, dreams or desires .

Who would wait to be fired by an organization with this inevitable future?

Since we owe absolutely nothing to them, and they have no intention of ever providing anything for us - I thought why not just start a better future and just QUIT QUIETLY

77

Just quit quietly - the law is on your side!

by Ajax in

jw
friends

freedon of religion guarantees any individual the legal right to abandon any religion at any time for any reason.. if you are a citizen of a country which champions human rights, then your government doesn t care what religion you join, but they will uphold your freedom to join it, without interference, coercion or persecution.

your countries human rights legislation will conversely uphold your rights when it comes time to abandon any religion you so choose.

those (elders) who incite others interfere, coerce or persecute those who have left will be in transgression of the human rights statutes.. a person is only obligated to ecclesiastic law if he exposes himself to it or transgressed it while still a member of a religious community.. when your time comes to abandon the jw-wt cult, do it while still in good standing, be proactive - be decisive -put it in writing!..and do it before the hounders set sights on you.. write a card or letter with as much or as little explanation as you one day might wish to share with pharisees and lawyers.. take this card to a notary public to have your signature witnessed and have the writing overstamped in several places with the date.

Ajax

Chaserious -

The reference I made about damages was not in regard to being DFd while still in.

If you chose to stay stay IN - you get exactly what you deserve - thats the attitude of the law. You want to join a cult?- prepare for cult justice.

Now Tony Morris has told us that JWs are free to leave any time they want.

So we leave freely - without explaination, controversy or arguement. The only way to avoid those things is to not speak to the elders .

When we left we wrote a little document, signed it, dated it and had it notarized. You know- in case of Alzheimers, or hyenas or something.

Some of us still like to go to the hall because we have real, actual loved ones there. We like to see our grandkids give talks and bible readings -so we can talk to them later about why the bible contains such horrible,silly stories, and that with a good education their lives will be just great..

Soon, the elders notice how quiet we seem, and happy and contented - something is not right! So they approach to quetion, cajole, counsel but you tell them theres no need to worry about you because you´re only there to help the grandkids, give some hugs and toussel some hair.

But what about your dedication? they ask. You explain how you are 100% dedicated to your family now and thats why you come. you explain that strong loving families are the building block of your community and all human societies around the world.

What about the truth? they ask.

Did I say something that wasn't true? you ask.

We mean what about our WT/JW Industrial Armeggedon Complex? they ask again.

Oh, I quit that just like Tony said - you guys wanna go fishing on Saturday? I´m takin the kids here and little Brittany is comin too- I've got the snacks...

A sickening look of dread crosses the elders faces - you wink at your better half and head for the door

Might see you guys next week, unless we win the bowling on Thursday night...

You have now peacefuly left with the blessing of Tony Morris. You've done nothing wrong while in, you've done nothing illegal

The only detail that might remain is to draft that letter of demand that your name never be used in any announcements as it would violate your privacy and your brother-in-laws lawywer really hates that kind of stuff

But it may never come to that because thats human rights territory and the watchtower will only lose from here on in- they cannot be seen to be fighting against the human rights freedoms that civil society has fought so hard for. What would a win even look like in such a contest??

18

What laws are on your side (in the U.S.) so you can leave quietly

by oppostate in

jw
friends

in another topic "just quit quietly - the law is on your side" there was a lot of discussion about how to leave quietly without getting tagged publicly as "no longer a jw".

here are some legal cases that could be used to show support for leaving quietly.. you have to first send a letter saying you're leaving that specific congregation, and that you don't want them to keep records of you.. if the boe says anything against you here are some court cases that make precedent for bringing a suit against them:.

baugh v. thomas (1970).

Ajax

Hi Blondie-

It doesn't cost anything to quit quietly and in good standing.

You showed (mailed) them your document when they finally decided to cause trouble because you didn't participate anymore , but you had already quit, and now that they want to make further trouble, you (as a member of the community, visiting a local church were your grandchildren attend) have to inform them that they have absolutely no right nor reason to read your name out in public from their platform, that doing so would be a violation of your privacy and since reading your name in public is not a part of their doctrine, yes there may be legal action taken)

You can attend meetings as they are public. You can talk to whomever you like as you are not disfellowshipped or disciplined and now can't be.

What are they gonna do without looking like complete assholes?

18

What laws are on your side (in the U.S.) so you can leave quietly

by oppostate in

jw
friends

in another topic "just quit quietly - the law is on your side" there was a lot of discussion about how to leave quietly without getting tagged publicly as "no longer a jw".

here are some legal cases that could be used to show support for leaving quietly.. you have to first send a letter saying you're leaving that specific congregation, and that you don't want them to keep records of you.. if the boe says anything against you here are some court cases that make precedent for bringing a suit against them:.

baugh v. thomas (1970).

Ajax

ptt and Keyser -

not everyone wants to be driven out - some want to stay associated for the sake of family, grand kids etc. They can take ToMo3 up on his offer to be

¨FREE to leave any time they want¨ and still hang out at the hall with the kids and grandchildren.

You are there now, as part of the general public, FREE as Tony says to chat and greet as you see fit - no need now to act like a cult member -you're FREE and can´t be disfellowshipped - what could be better than that???

18

What laws are on your side (in the U.S.) so you can leave quietly

by oppostate in

jw
friends

in another topic "just quit quietly - the law is on your side" there was a lot of discussion about how to leave quietly without getting tagged publicly as "no longer a jw".

here are some legal cases that could be used to show support for leaving quietly.. you have to first send a letter saying you're leaving that specific congregation, and that you don't want them to keep records of you.. if the boe says anything against you here are some court cases that make precedent for bringing a suit against them:.

baugh v. thomas (1970).

Ajax

Oppostate-

Thats a great series from Pewforum.org.

And an interesting outcome in the Quinn case, in that, what the church could do to her before her resignation and what it could do to her after her resignation was significantly different.

And Ms. Quinn didn´t even quit quietly while still in good standing - she hit the roof because of their manipulating nasty conduct right in the middle of a judicial process!

Also-

Interesting comment on the first page of your Pewforum link - about paragraph 8 beginning ¨A third type of case...¨ indicating that courts can rule on internal matters as long as they are not intricately bound up with church doctrine (approximate.)

Verbally identifying one as ¨no longer one of Jehovahs Witnesses¨ is not a part of doctrine - just a sneaky little que to inform the stupid to begin something so distasteful that they really don´t ever want to discuss in public or print. Therfore, an issue that could be ruled on by secular court.

Oppostate, I think you are mistaken that your name will not be readout for disasociation - you may not be DFd but the announcemant is currently made for those who disasociate while still in.

Don't involve the elders - just QUIT QUIETLY. Any reaction they have to your having quit is after the fact that you are no longer a member. Look how well that worked out for Ms. Quinn- she's probably still counting her settlement money.

77

Just quit quietly - the law is on your side!

by Ajax in

jw
friends

freedon of religion guarantees any individual the legal right to abandon any religion at any time for any reason.. if you are a citizen of a country which champions human rights, then your government doesn t care what religion you join, but they will uphold your freedom to join it, without interference, coercion or persecution.

your countries human rights legislation will conversely uphold your rights when it comes time to abandon any religion you so choose.

those (elders) who incite others interfere, coerce or persecute those who have left will be in transgression of the human rights statutes.. a person is only obligated to ecclesiastic law if he exposes himself to it or transgressed it while still a member of a religious community.. when your time comes to abandon the jw-wt cult, do it while still in good standing, be proactive - be decisive -put it in writing!..and do it before the hounders set sights on you.. write a card or letter with as much or as little explanation as you one day might wish to share with pharisees and lawyers.. take this card to a notary public to have your signature witnessed and have the writing overstamped in several places with the date.

Ajax

Chaserious -

What defines a tort action and why would human rights claims not qualify as meritorious in the US?

77

Just quit quietly - the law is on your side!

by Ajax in

jw
friends

freedon of religion guarantees any individual the legal right to abandon any religion at any time for any reason.. if you are a citizen of a country which champions human rights, then your government doesn t care what religion you join, but they will uphold your freedom to join it, without interference, coercion or persecution.

your countries human rights legislation will conversely uphold your rights when it comes time to abandon any religion you so choose.

those (elders) who incite others interfere, coerce or persecute those who have left will be in transgression of the human rights statutes.. a person is only obligated to ecclesiastic law if he exposes himself to it or transgressed it while still a member of a religious community.. when your time comes to abandon the jw-wt cult, do it while still in good standing, be proactive - be decisive -put it in writing!..and do it before the hounders set sights on you.. write a card or letter with as much or as little explanation as you one day might wish to share with pharisees and lawyers.. take this card to a notary public to have your signature witnessed and have the writing overstamped in several places with the date.

Ajax

Balaam -

I suspect you are nearly 100% correct. The elders are trained by the WT to shepherd docile, dumbed-down, delusioned sheep of their own making.

Rammy, agressive, insatiably curious goats are a completely different animal - I am a farm boy and learned this the hard way!

I accepted my appointment as an elder years ago because I thought it was a position to help and support others. I cetrtainly would have had no share in supporting the congregation nor the society in any effort to knowingly curb people freedoms, and certainly not to fight freedom in court and look like the fools from New York.

Local elders will be totally unprepared for organized leaving approaches and to be prepared by the society, to persecute those who wish to leave will likely be a huge catylst to losing even more of the current elders.

The congregation/societies legalism will blow up right in their faces. People join churches to enjoy the company of Christians not lawyers

77

Just quit quietly - the law is on your side!

by Ajax in

jw
friends

freedon of religion guarantees any individual the legal right to abandon any religion at any time for any reason.. if you are a citizen of a country which champions human rights, then your government doesn t care what religion you join, but they will uphold your freedom to join it, without interference, coercion or persecution.

your countries human rights legislation will conversely uphold your rights when it comes time to abandon any religion you so choose.

those (elders) who incite others interfere, coerce or persecute those who have left will be in transgression of the human rights statutes.. a person is only obligated to ecclesiastic law if he exposes himself to it or transgressed it while still a member of a religious community.. when your time comes to abandon the jw-wt cult, do it while still in good standing, be proactive - be decisive -put it in writing!..and do it before the hounders set sights on you.. write a card or letter with as much or as little explanation as you one day might wish to share with pharisees and lawyers.. take this card to a notary public to have your signature witnessed and have the writing overstamped in several places with the date.

Ajax

Chaserious -

Thanks again for your interest and knowledgable comments. (I know nothing and need and really appreciate your help)

Your legal point - ¨...principles of contract law requrie you to communicate something with your counterpart.¨

Tony Morris is on public record as asserting that JWs are free to leave any time they want (does anyone know where he said this?) That being the case, we who quit quiety are only responding to the offer of freedom made by one of the societies very own popes.

Therefore there is two-way communication of lawful intents. Yes? Leaving is just our response to the offer they made years ago.

Your legal point - ¨The traditional rule is called the mailbox or posting rule, which makes something in writing effective when you place it in the mail to another party; not when you write it yourself intend for it to secretly have effect.¨

I doubt that a Human rights commission/tribunal would care too much about this. When someone needs to escapes from abuse, the technicalities of the method of escape are irrelevant.

A tribunal enironment is somewhat different from a trial- the needs of the abused are paramount and the legal technicalities and rights of the abuser to continue abuses would be carefully scrutinized and hugely embarrassing for a secretive organizations such as WT/JW. For example - a tribunal would learn that reading of ones name at a meeting is more than just a factual statement , but that it is,and has been for years, the secret que to incite mass discrimination of the named person. This is one example of the very situations that human rights commissions are trying to end. It is also illegal.

For people who wish to stay in some association with those at the hall, like the Gorbies - it might be appropriate to mail their document at some time when it becomes obvious that the hyenas are crazed by the scent of blood. It´s till a done deal, a response to Tonys offer, and an action that is legally protected by human rights law. We could hold the WT/JW strictly liable because it was they who made the offer ,yes?

Please reply.

Ajax

7

Truth Be Told documentary to be screened worldwide on Christmas Day

by defender of truth in

"truth be told is an examination of the clear and present dangers of undue influence in the hands of fanatical religions and other high-control groups.

and it is important for our viewers to understand that the indoctrination, spiritual intimidation, ostracism and other human rights abuses discussed in the film did not just occur in the past.

they are happening right now to millions of jehovah's witnesses and their families worldwide.".

Ajax

MY my my ...

What brilliant, comprehensive insights the films director Gregorio Smith shows regarding this hypocritical delusional little cult.

Such concise, specific and serious observations will be difficult to translate from verbal to visual realms .

And a big THANK YOU to Danielle Tumminio for her excellent Huffington Post interview/column. Oh the joy and beauty of intellect!!

¨ A God understood is not a God¨

77

Just quit quietly - the law is on your side!

by Ajax in

jw
friends

freedon of religion guarantees any individual the legal right to abandon any religion at any time for any reason.. if you are a citizen of a country which champions human rights, then your government doesn t care what religion you join, but they will uphold your freedom to join it, without interference, coercion or persecution.

your countries human rights legislation will conversely uphold your rights when it comes time to abandon any religion you so choose.

those (elders) who incite others interfere, coerce or persecute those who have left will be in transgression of the human rights statutes.. a person is only obligated to ecclesiastic law if he exposes himself to it or transgressed it while still a member of a religious community.. when your time comes to abandon the jw-wt cult, do it while still in good standing, be proactive - be decisive -put it in writing!..and do it before the hounders set sights on you.. write a card or letter with as much or as little explanation as you one day might wish to share with pharisees and lawyers.. take this card to a notary public to have your signature witnessed and have the writing overstamped in several places with the date.

Ajax

TD-

Human Rights laws are probably administered by your state rather than national- and they vary fron one to another. I noticed that many US states seem more obsessed with threats and damage to propert than damage to people!

You are correct that they are worded somewhat broadly and that is for a purpose. To benefit from them you have to challenge the person or persons who violated your rights -and show how their actions violated those broad principles.

It is inevitable that humans will violate laws of specicity - the more specific and plentiful such laws would be the more the likelyhood of violation. But consider a law which is based on principle, and broadly applied... you might accidentally come close to violating someones rights, (talk foolishly, act in ignorance, not be too socially aware etc), but to actually violate and cause harm to apersons individual freedoms requires a certain amount of intent, possibly even malice.

Intent is absent from mistakes and acts of personal ignorance and can often be remedied by apologies and restitutions. but when there is intent then the perpetrator is likely aware that a violation is taking place, ant the consequences to him is more severe, even punitive., hence damages.

The Watchtower in a 1947 Awake article decried excommunication as a device of pagans to exercise and expand their ecclesiastic power over the layety - then a very few years later the WT adopted the same practice under the name Disfellowship.

Not much doubt about their intent either, stern directions to include more and more imaginary offences and to strike closer and closer to the family unit - separating parentsand grandparents from their children - real malice -courtesy a real bunch of bastards.