That IS interesting Phoebe.
Alive!
JoinedPosts by Alive!
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25
...and so it begins
by Phoebe ini've had an email from a sister who tells me that out in field service this morning a long standing route call has told them she won't be taking any more magazines and doesn't want them calling on her again because she has heard about the jws child abuse scandals and cover ups.
she was quite angry with them and said your elders say there is nothing wrong but there is and it will all come out.. this is the first time anyone i know of has been challenged on the doorstep and they were absolutely shocked and also angry.
angry that the organization is not preparing them for dealing with this and for not being honest with the brothers about what is going on ie: lawsuits etc.. just thought i'd share that with you..
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16
Session #8: "Bullet in the Head"
by Brian J inso at the phd today with my wife and me, and in slowly getting to the heart of matters (like peeling an onion if you ask me), the dialogue in part went like this: .
phd: if it came down to it, would you take a bullet in the head instead of giving up membership in your organization?
wife: absolutely, i would die for my faith.
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Alive!
Hi,
Your wife sounds like a very special person. You clearly love and respect her. She's a deep thinker, intelligent, loves and cares unselfishly. All these qualities and the family life you share add up to real blessings, real quality of life.
But, you've mentioned before that she lives with suicidal depression.
I also struggle with suicidal depression....and so much of that I trace to living twenty years of cognitive dissonance in the Watchtower pressure cooker.
Oh, I've got a history of trauma events...truly painful and not your usual 'life' experiences...and I accept that there is a knock on affect from that. However, I always outwardly presented well, my inner emotions were kept under guard, escaping now and then.
So, the organisation and my faith built structure into my life.....and I was a true believer, I seemed to thrive, my life was full on as a JW, for many years.
But, the tension of believing everything came from God via the Watchtower, whilst experiencing the reality that too many Watchtower scriptural interpretations were at best weak, at worst biased and convoluted...and somewhat dishonest....for a 'deep thinker' like myself, this was painful to the nth degree.
The depression comes and goes in waves for me, now I've been 'gone' for nearly 6 years.
Age is not on my side, being 60 and losing my life's investment in friends, faith and life structure.
Go carefully with her Brian - I'd suggest her declaration of 'taking a bullet' for her faith is more about 'taking a bullet' rather than lose everything that is her 'life' as she knows it.
Or at least tightly wrapped up between her 'life' and her 'faith'.
This isn't about her intelligence, her ability to think.....but the potential dread of the unknown outside of her 'safe' place as a JW. Terrifying for her likely. Terrifying.
I'd be inclined to understand her declarations as self protective screams against the Unknown. For her, protection and love from God, can only come through the organisation.
And whilst that is deeply comforting when one believes it to be 'true' - it is terrifying when cracks are shown......
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25
...and so it begins
by Phoebe ini've had an email from a sister who tells me that out in field service this morning a long standing route call has told them she won't be taking any more magazines and doesn't want them calling on her again because she has heard about the jws child abuse scandals and cover ups.
she was quite angry with them and said your elders say there is nothing wrong but there is and it will all come out.. this is the first time anyone i know of has been challenged on the doorstep and they were absolutely shocked and also angry.
angry that the organization is not preparing them for dealing with this and for not being honest with the brothers about what is going on ie: lawsuits etc.. just thought i'd share that with you..
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Alive!
That's interesting to read Phoebe.
The child abuse issues will not convince 'the sea of unbelievers' that 'God is truly with you people' - the way the JW organisation appeared and handled questioning at the ARC (and I watched every live-streaming video from Australia) will alienate décent people who are 'interested' but not yet 'invested'.
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They have nowhere else to go!
by Crazyguy ini think the overwhelming problem with trying to wake up friends and family is they have nowhere else to go.
i mean these people all their friends are jws a lot of them their family is jws.
if they wake up or agree with you in anyway they know instantly that they loose all this, many will even loose jobs.
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Alive!
"Among the fence sitters, there are many Jw's who have doubts, however, they are sincere believers who love their God and want to continue as JW's. These are the ones who happily wait on Jehovah to correct matters."
Agree. Sadly, those same ones are prepared to see others suffer loss and misery for their personal convictions that Jehovah wouldn't teach by manipulation and lies.
But, there is no doubt, many faithful witnesses believe they are 'holding the fort' whilst waiting for Jehovah to correct things.
In the meantime, their faithfulness means they have to shut their eyes to proven slight of hand, smoke screen tactics.
Converts like me, didn't sign up for that....and are left distressed and broken by it all...and so we have to face the pain of disengagement from it all.....quite horrible.
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14
no...No...NOOO...JW's are not a cult!
by FedUpJW injust read this over on jw talk:.
will we be willing to leave unbelieving mates and unresponsive kids behind when given direction on what to do???
what about grandkids who fall under their parents who are not witnesses???
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Alive!
It's a relief to know I don't have to sit alongside people who think this way....and pray in unison with them.
And their madness isn't their own thinking....it's the product of the Watchtower's grooming.
I remember the anxious discussions around this....only discussed with better grammar!
This is what the 'truth' is all about.
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Since leaving the JW Organization, who is believing?
by Issa ini left the jw organization last year during summer.
maybe some of you can relate.
who of you are agnostic or an atheist?
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Alive!
Well, I keep faith.
I'm not offended by those who think it's all delusion and rubbish. Although it puzzles me how the door could be so firmly closed on the actual possibility of a higher power by some. Just as it probably puzzles non-negotiable Athiests that I am prepared to share my thoughts and hopes with an invisible Father figure who has never once audibly spoken back to me in a way that is Headline News evidence of His existence.
But, I've always felt aware of something beyond me, our world...as a child, through angry anti-religion teens and into my thirties, when I finally sat down and spent time with coming to grips with my senses re the spiritual dimensions, my internal yearning was as real to me as anything.
Millie wrote it well, regarding the scriptures etc.
I don't treat the bible as an 'idol' - however I do respect and have faith that the progressive writings are pointing us towards a greater truth and hope.
Anyway, that's how it is for me.
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Anxiety, OCD, Hoarding, and the JWs
by Spiral ini'm noticing what seems to be a higher incidence of the above among the local jws than in the "general" (read: worldly) population.
i don't say this lightly, my wanderings around the fringes of jw society locally is revealing an alarming trend here.
the poverty doesn't help (there are good jobs, but you need a degree or qualifications to get one).. anyone else see this?
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Alive!
I have to say that in my experience the incidence of OCD behaviours and other such issues amongst the JW community is extraordinary high. Really.
I often experienced dry retching attacks prior to a meeting....and I was a full on 'happy' believer.
These were times when I had a whole lot circumstantial emotional stresses on my plate, and the thought of spending the evening in a large gathering of people was NOT upbuilding for me, personally. The chit chat before and after felt excruciating, even though I focused on the person in front of me, and not myself as a sort of self regulation....it was wearying.
There was a period of time, where I was grieving, deeply grieving and I really just needed a kind and non confronting soul to just sit with me, the only company I desired outside of the workplace was in my home setting....and one to one.
Not just for a day, a night....but for a period of time I needed space, some dignity in solitude....and the anxiety of not having endorsed permission to be absent from meetings as a JW made me ill.
It really did.
The religion did a lot of productive things for my life...externally, it all looked good...our house, our social life, our finances and businesses....
But I was one of those who picked my manicured fingers, picked at my head....such anxiety underneath the gloss and the apparently happy life.
My JW friends all drank far too much...elders, pioneers....we all did.
My JW girlfriends were always on edge, or taking medication for anxiety.
Many of us were really all quite spiritually, emotionally and physically sick, when I think about it.
I saw many lives ruined. And that's not sour grapes.
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10
Eavesdropping on a home Bible Study
by doubtfull1799 inmy mil held a bible study round to our place today and i was home so was interested to listen in from the next room to see what the quality of the study was like.
and whether the new clam meetings are helping jw’s to be better teachers at all.. .
participants:.
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Alive!
I would warn any person who is studying with JWs to be aware and on guard.
There is no doubt that there are kind-hearted, well meaning folk who are groomed as Jehovah's Witnesses....and this can be quite disarming.
JWs are trained to look interested in 'you', and in many ways they are....but 'you' are actually a target, a desirable target....a JW will easily lose sight of 'you' as 'you' become a 'study' ....and please be aware, they will not be truthful in a 100% transparent way. Not in the way you'd expect when examining matters of such extraordinary significance and importance.
I don't say this to be unkind, but witnesses don't even realise they are actually fudging the 'truth' - every nerve in their being is bent towards making 'you' a Jehovahs Witness.
The faithful JW DOES love Jehovah, as they would prefer to call the Father, but the call to be shaped as a JW styled believer and be part of that community trumps all other considerations or realities.
So, just tread carefully, if you are reading.
If you seek God, please be aware, that surely if He exists, He is more then capable of being found without the use of half truths and silly and misleading interpretations of ancient writings.
I'm just writing this for those who want God, but may be walking towards a entrapped situation which they could later find painful and life endangering, emotionally and materially.
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Hi, all...I'm a faithful JW who is sick of lies about us
by James Donalds ini was baptized 30 years ago and have been in the faith for over 35 years.. our organization isn't perfect.
but i'm sick to death of seeing stereotypes about us.
we are not mindless automatons.
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Alive!
I was a convert.
I moved mountains to conform my life, to become a 'witness'....I faced family opposition....you can imagine.
And your boastful claims repulse me.
So you are a 'faithful witness?'
Really?
You smoke a cigar?
And you brazenly come to a place where perhaps spiritually weakened witnesses gather, lurk and read and you boast about 'people knowing about your little cigar habit and its OK'....and then you claim you are a faithful witness?
Oh and you curse sometimes. How jolly.
And you vote? In your faithfulness you vote? Sweet!
How thoughtful and caring of you as a 'faithful JW' to present yourself as a normal witness....
Don't make me laugh.
You earn a six figure income?
Yeah well, so did I in the hay-days of my career.
You think that makes you an intelligent thinker?
My observation of folk is that it just means you earn a six figure income - not a guarantee that you are an intelligent thinker.
I've hung around enough high earners like my younger self to know it means zilch. It just means you can earn good coin and possibly street smart/savvy.
You go against the direction of men who claim to lead Jehovah's chosen people and you boast about it?
The problem my dear is that the ranks are riddled with two facers like you ( and yes let's face it, your actions are somewhat two faced aren't they? ....and twits like me were taken in by your nice clean facade.....)
Sorry if this is harsh, I'm usually sweetness and light.
But you know what? Your post royally pissed me off.
Think about it. And think about who you are and what you really stand for.
Apologies for the meaness of my words, I'll probably regret it and then angst over it.
But, I don't know - perhaps a wake up call as to how you really appear won't hurt.
People like you were serpents towards folk like myself, ultimately.
Perhaps you are not of that ilk. I hope not.
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How do I handle this?
by Phoebe ina little advice please.. it's now 7 months since i stopped going to meetings.
we still get regular calls by elders - at least every 2 weeks.
i can handle them.
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Alive!
With respect to TFG....I'd stay well away from saying I'm dealing with private/personal problems - she and her Mother could go to town on that imagination wise and you can bet your bottom dollar your response won't stay private.....it suggests you are problematic or are experiencing problems ( of course! You don't go to meetings!!!!!) and that's not what it's about.
Isn't it horrible having to manoeuvre through all this stuff?