Posts by Alive!

56

Why Do Intelligent People Believe in God?

by cantleave in

jw
friends

one of the most common thing thrown at atheists is - lots of intelligent people believe in god.

this darkmatter 2525's video is an excellent explanation as to why very logical people possess religious belief systems.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y201qzddzbg.

Alive!

Did your God spontaneously come from nothing then? If not then how did he get there? Your 'logicalness' creates a lot more questions than it answers.
Excellent - I'm all for questions :-) That's when things can get really exciting.If I question why are there so many pointers toward creative evidence, then, even if I haven't found the answer, I'm still willing to 'search' or say 'as yet I don't know how and why' It's really OK to suspect there is a purposeful creative force - and it's OK to keep the question door open!It doesn't make you a weak minded fool - honest!!

56

Why Do Intelligent People Believe in God?

by cantleave in

jw
friends

one of the most common thing thrown at atheists is - lots of intelligent people believe in god.

this darkmatter 2525's video is an excellent explanation as to why very logical people possess religious belief systems.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y201qzddzbg.

Alive!

Like, truth doubter - basic questions prompted my 'search'

I view 20 odd years with WTBTS as a journey which I willingly embarked upon, but I failed to respond to 'concerning' clues from the start - allowing 'God' and interpretation of scripture to be the projection of an elitist and separatist sect.

Today, I find 'concerning clues' as to why the whole story can't be just wrapped up in the relatively modern theory that nothing 'supernatural' exists out of our tangible dimension and daily material experience.

I sometimes ponder when I read or hear the words of those who wipe out the 'theory' that there is a supernatural world of supernatural life as in a 'Creator' and life beyond our dimension - I ponder that 'supernatural' may seem like a highly amusing word to 'supernatural' intelligent life who we just can't see, yet millions and millions throughout human history have aspired to communicate with, to be with.......

My initial stance as a teenager through to early 30s was agnostic. But I always thought it was close minded to state 'we are the only intelligent life' in this 'thing', 'universe' whatever.....

So, when I considered the history of mankind forever trying to communicating with other intelligent life, from primitive to sophisticated civilisations....I wondered how mere animals who should merely be concerned with surviving, thriving etc have conceived of and wanted to communicate with something greater than themselves outside of their known dimension?

And yes, I know there are modern answers to this question - but I've sampled them and I keep responding to this 'something' within me......

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Alive!

It's just occurred to me how happy I am to not be caged in an organisation where paranoid personalities twist words, refuse to validate our right to reason in our own time and own way and yet hold some kind of power in the congregation.

Remember that way?

Phew. OUT!

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Alive!

Frankly, why would he want to take part in this thread at this stage?

19

A Good Decade

by theliberator in

if you were really into the organization back in the 80's, you have to admit, that it was the peak of the organization.

it was a time of high energy and excitement.

like any nation, it reaches a peak and then it declines.

Alive!

I felt some dismay and anxiety that I didn't have bible studies galore, but I was comforted by the hope that I was planting 'seeds' so that when the end was nigh, people would jump into Jehovah's congregation for safety......and life.

I suspect around the mid nineties when the generation teaching started changing to 'fit' the numbers, many felt some despair.... It wasn't that we were not prepared to serve God no matter how long in this world, it was just that we had taught ( at the time I had studied) a definite, end times 'date range'........ 1975...1914, 1874 or whatever were in the past.....

Funny, I remember somehow I must have got wind of something happening around 1975 re a proclamation re the 'end' - a 3 rd gen elder, ex bethel, PO etc being someone who we thought of as a friend, poo-pooed this and said it was just a few who whipped up false fever.

He told a big fib - didn't he?

I used to angst over not being more productive in the field - so glad now that I couldn't convince anyone that the WT is God's only channel !!!!!

19

A Good Decade

by theliberator in

if you were really into the organization back in the 80's, you have to admit, that it was the peak of the organization.

it was a time of high energy and excitement.

like any nation, it reaches a peak and then it declines.

Alive!

Interesting - I studied in the late 80s and indeed, it was a 'exciting' time - the numbers lined up, the anointed class numbers 'the remanent' were reducing and with the solid doctrine that this generation would not pass away, I really believed only, absolutely only the desperately wicked would reject a peaceful universe in the end.

Like others, I adjusted this when 'new light' showed this generation to be NOT the anointed but the wicked generation or 'culture' of our times, with no time limit - then it was changed again to mean the anointed/ overlapping.....

I agree that the young JWs who are in the org 'groove' can have a blast - humorously off to where the need is greater... Along with their baby boomer parents - such countries that are on the main agenda appear to be Mexico, South America and recently I heard of beautiful Portugal and the lovely Southern Ireland as bring 'destinations'.

The need is RIGHT in their neighbourhood if they only but looked - the need being charity, community care and support of their neighbours and struggling fellow JWs.

Guess that sounds bitter - I don't mean it to be - but none of it really adds up.

33

What authority have the GB got left to them?

by Half banana in

( jw governing body members are invited to respond) .

however professional and glossy their pr makeover is, as seen on jw tv and the jw org logo... the bottom line is that 19th century religious adventist claims are no longer sexy..

to outsiders the jw org now has all the allure of a donkey wearing lipstick..

Alive!

'Get over yourselves'

No problem. And I agree, there is still plenty of force left in the 'org'.

Gone to any meetings yet?

15

How JW ignore the help Felicity Sneesby got from the "World"

by StephaneLaliberte in

lately, in the february broadcast program, at the 46 minutes mark, the watchtower provides the story of felicity sneesby.

this report focuses on how, despite her serious illness, she, along with her family, has always placed her faith in jehovah and how happy she is for being part of jehovah’s family.. i am shocked by how this jw’s report completely ignores the help that this family has received from this system of things through the years.

for instance, they slept at the ronald mcdonald house on at least 6 separate occasions and for long periods of time.

Alive!

The JW organisation isn't into feeling the joy of humanity - but just loves self promotion.

That, is my observation - and when I was fully trusting and obedient, it was this niggling feeling and sense of shame that made me feel that this self appointed 'ark' was not where Jesus has solely given favour.

7

"Sighing and Groaning" is NOT a mark of holiness...!! (Rant!)

by Muddy Waters in

all these damn years in that damn cult -- remember how they tell you that jehovah looks upon those "who are sighing and groaning" (at all the terrible things being done.... focusing on all the evils and woes of the world and satan's system) -- and that all this sighing & groaning is some sort of mark of holiness?????.

every negative news article, every bad bit of something or circumstance - all support and become part of that woeful mindset.

and we are supposed to keep on being like that, sighing and groaning our lives away to receive some sort of damn mark from an angel's ink horn, to mark us as worthy of life..

Alive!

'Keep dwelling on on upbuilding, holy things, Loveable things' and so it goes in so many words.

One day I was looking at a series of illustrations executed by the Art Department - each was the realisation of their own imaginations, depicting savage expressions, agony, viciousness and other horrific emotions/circumstances and experiences.....and it occurred to me that these garish, unpleasantly rendered productions came from the minds and hearts of other humans, who would have had to spend hours, getting that 'expression' just right in their eyes.

And these folk were JWs.

I then wondered how spiritually and mentally healthy was it to subject oneself to being so absorbed FOR HOURS in producing representations of wild eyed horror.

I paint and draw.....it draws something out of oneself to do this....it isn't something you whip up in five secs and feel untouched by your work and the canvas.

Made me think - a few years ago.....another tipping point along the way...I started to acknowledge my deep fears thatsomething was terribly terribly wrong with the WTBTS.

16

Superstitious people

by biblexaminer in

the world is filled with superstitious people.

and some of the most superstitious are jehovah's witnesses.. remember, i didn't say they alone are the most superstitious, nor did i say they are on an island.

how do we know that this is true?

Alive!

Looking back - it's clear that JWs are In fear of material objects in ways that are very unhealthy.

So many stories to relate - many first hand observations.

An obsession with demons.....we've recently covered the issue re second hand goods....

And The sign of the cross spooks the average JW...I remember a pioneer who was going to give me a hand with some housework (paid of course!) she was introduced through a friend...and one of the first things she said was how she had bad demonic reactions to the 'cross' - even if it were just printed on the front of a bible.

I really didn't want someone having a demonic episode in my home LOL - I mentioned that I had a collection of bibles and books on religions of the world - I hoped this wouldn't be a trigger.

Thankfully - she got through the day without any nasty experiences.

I sensed she was a little unstable so I refrained from asking her how she coped with literature from the society which sometimes had visuals of pagan gods and symbols, including the cross...

So many stories, unhealthy superstition.... Creating fear and anxiety.