Posts by Alive!

47

Are JWs "mind trained" to be habitual liars?

by nonjwspouse in

i don't mean overly obvious, or otherwise meaning to cause harm, but taught to lie for the purpose of avoidance.

this type of lying can be pervasive in areas of life that are not just to avoid discussions with people who have questions about the jw, etc.

my husband will lie/be deceitful about the silliest, simple things.

Alive!

This trait of deceit is such a strange thing to find amongst 'the most honest people' in the world....

I do think there is a critical honesty regarding things like stolen goods, finding money etc, being given too much change! most JWs I know would be very honest over these things, avoiding being caught up with anything that smacked of taking something etc.

But when it comes to communication, it's like the JW culture overall fails to act in a truly generous nature of respect where other human beings are deserving of respectful treatment....if that makes sense...in that there are smoke screens, things held back....

And then you see this permeating into the JW population. It's really noticeable.

But then, individuals and groups behave like this everywhere......its just particularly weird amongst people who spend hours studying words and scriptures on being truthful!

47

Are JWs "mind trained" to be habitual liars?

by nonjwspouse in

i don't mean overly obvious, or otherwise meaning to cause harm, but taught to lie for the purpose of avoidance.

this type of lying can be pervasive in areas of life that are not just to avoid discussions with people who have questions about the jw, etc.

my husband will lie/be deceitful about the silliest, simple things.

Alive!

And the JWs are immersed in a world of not telling it straight, avoidance, verbal dancing etc.

It's a strange thing.

47

Are JWs "mind trained" to be habitual liars?

by nonjwspouse in

i don't mean overly obvious, or otherwise meaning to cause harm, but taught to lie for the purpose of avoidance.

this type of lying can be pervasive in areas of life that are not just to avoid discussions with people who have questions about the jw, etc.

my husband will lie/be deceitful about the silliest, simple things.

Alive!

It's a horrible thing.....my husband has lied in the past on terribly serious matters.

It has impacted on our 35 year old marraige and relationship in so many ways.

In the end it changes you. Living with a partner who lies so easily can make you feel somewhat insane. Believe me!

They don't understand or know the difference I think. Ingrained from child hood There seems to be no conscience involved.

My mother in law ( not a witness) is a shocking example of verbal deceit....I love her anyway, she really tries hard to be a good person. But it's this incredibly childish lying and avoidance....ugh.

47

Are JWs "mind trained" to be habitual liars?

by nonjwspouse in

i don't mean overly obvious, or otherwise meaning to cause harm, but taught to lie for the purpose of avoidance.

this type of lying can be pervasive in areas of life that are not just to avoid discussions with people who have questions about the jw, etc.

my husband will lie/be deceitful about the silliest, simple things.

Alive!

Chipping in.....

This 'trait' of deceit was something that I noticed from early years of association with witnesses...

It started off as 'avoidance' or twisting of words and reinventing realities...all of which has been mentioned in this thread.

My own husband was not brought up as a JW, but like the OP, he absolutely cannot seem to just 'tell it as it is' - and I don't mean simply embroidering a good story for entertainment value! He chooses avoidance nearly every time, and it can be exhausting as he also has a history of lying about very serious matters.

But I know this is a family trait which developed through a dysfunctional parenting situation...and I should mention, both my husband and his family are relatively 'decent' people. Intensely law-abiding, honest in money matters....but this strange avoidance thing, keeping them 'personally' unattached and a bit of an 'island'....some of the verbal dances they perform are hilarious, if it wasn't also unsettling and uncomfortable 🤔 - one constantly had to readjust expectations when talking about things with them.

I believe JWs have a similar dysfunctional global 'family' upbringing.

So yes, this odd and unsettling deceptive behaviour is ingrained....and often done with a smile and a hug 😆

I learnt how to talk this way myself, in their company...after awhile it became second nature to not directly answer questions about the bible, witnesses etc when around the 'outside' world of people. 😞🤔

50

A JW explains Blood Fractions

by OrphanCrow in

i was looking around from some information on the wt's stance concerning the use of stem cells, and i came across this article on a defending jehovah's witnesses blog.. rather than informing the reader all that much about stem cells, the author diverts the conversation into a discussion of "blood fractions" (*note: the term "blood fractions" appears to be another one of those wt bloodspeak terms coined by the wt.

"blood components" or "blood products" are the terms used more frequently by the medical world.

"fractions" implies tiny amounts).

Alive!

Through the years, following my baptism and conversion in the 90s....I was ever bewildered by the amount of literature on blood and 'fractions' - and changing medical directives etc.

I reasoned with myself, during the initial process in which blood is artificially removed from the living body, does it cease to be blood? No.

Surely, I reasoned, the abstaining of blood finds its moral and scriptural beginnings in the actual taking and donating of blood. An upholder of this doctrine would surely refuse any substance that initially involved the donating and taking of blood. It's that simple, because whatever you call the end 'blood fraction', blood was donated in order to produce it.

But anyway, the real issue is that a life isnt taken or snuffed out in order to sustain another humans life through the taking of blood. We don't kill a human to get their blood, in order to 'sustain' our own lives.

That, in anyone's book is repulsive.

Blood taken from a willing, voluntary and living being is a mere transfer of 'organ'.

A life is not lost or murdered.

This doctrine is another embarrassment to JWs and also a danger.

52

last convention before global attack on witnesses

by Phoebe in

jw
friends

so it's not enough that i'm dealing with post traumatic stress/anxiety and panic attacks all related to my life as a jw (50 years baptized -- i stopped going a couple of months ago) at 3 a.m. i get an email from the other side of the world.

'you have to go to the convention.

bro sanderson says we must watch the news, things are happening.

Alive!

Hi Phoebe,

I'm guessing you must be in your 60s at least, given your 50 yrs of baptised activity.

How brqve you have been to pull away from the organisation, to question all those things that felt so wrong.

Dear lady, your post really resonated with some of my experiences in the past few years.

The witnesses aren't trained to think carefully about the timing or impact of their 'missiles of warning'....how many emotionally or mentally fragile folk did we disturb with our frighteningly illustrated tracts or publications....leaving them in the loneliness of their lives to read and look at pictures which were frightening to view and didn't need to be realised in an illustration.

I can imagine your anxiety, the process of upturning your whole life is anxious making enough....without loveless emails that took just a few minutes to dash off.

I've kept my life in hope, hope in our universal creator. I grew ever weary of 'speaking on his behalf' the twisted judgemental thinking of those (aka the FDS) who demonstrated a poor grasp of scriptural understanding over years and years of foolishness. And now, they use emotional manipulation more then ever through videos, short movies. No to that.

Try not to read any social media or emails in the wee hours...definitely not helpful to your emotional state.

Take care, breathe through each hour.

And if you can, speak in your heart to the One you trusted all these years.

The nature of whom you measured against the nature of these 'men' and found them entirely out of synch.

22

Are JW's non- violent

by notalone in

jw
friends

okay, i keep reading something and though jw's do not get involved in national wars, my experience has always been they are very violent people.

every convention i have ever been to was filled with children being beat within an inch of their lives for just not being able to take a third day of mind-droning silence without being able to move or now even sleep.

i have seen whole congregations laugh at stories of children being beaten and calling out to "jehovah".

Alive!

I used to feel terribly uneasy about the garish illustrations....such as just posted here.

I like to create, draw, paint.

I find my heart kind of feels the same emotional colour as my subject matter, so, I'll feel a sense of reverent love if I trace the outline of something beautiful in my own way. if I walk away from the painting, that feeling and image stays with me. I look forward to returning, to 'perfect' or work on it.

i don't draw violent things, I don't draw or illustrate people suffering. If I did, it would be from compassion and outrage at the violence, at the suffering.

What sort of Christian heart meditates on capturing the terror of children, old men and women's faces as they get struck and destroyed by falling buildings and bolts of fire? How does that heart feel concentrating on depicting such images which are not about compassion but 'deserved destruction' ?

Interesting.

65

My Introduction - An ex-elder's story of waking up later in life.

by doubtfull1799 in

background:.

my parents got the “truth” while i was in primary school.

i was baptised at 14. i loved school and was extremely studious.

Alive!

On reading your OP, I identified with how utterly painful and 'unreal' this late age awakening must have been for you.

I was a convert, a dedicated convert.

I found that little by little my personal intergrity felt violated by the 'tone' of the Watchtower - and so I started to dig deeper.

A few years ago, I had tried to reach a beloved relative with a couple of our publications - and was knocked back when they answered with an expose of misquotes, that is quotations placed out of context, unashamedly reframing the original thought of the original writer.

I knew this was not the way of 'holiness'.

This was just a small ( relative to other unacceptable issues) but defining point in my Watchtower life. You know how it goes.

It's been a hard, hard and hurtful path.

'They' do so much damage. They truly do.

35

"would you drink a glass of water if it had just a tiny bit of poison in it?"

by stuckinarut2 in

no doubt we have all heard that well used "illustration" in public talks etc over the years:.

"if you were handed a glass of water that looked pure, but were told it has just a tiny drop of poison in it, would you drink it?".

the society has used that illustration at length to say we should avoid all influences of every part of the world.. but, as we know, the society has had a track record of errors, false ideas and doctrines.

Alive!

This illustration used to impress me.

So much used to impress me.

Then one day, over time, more and more....I heard a certain 'tone' in the voice of the Watchtower magazine.

That same 'tone' started to become apparent in public talks and assemblies.

It wasn't a 'tone' that left me feeling uplifted, spiritually safe, secure.

I had to walk away.

58

baptised nearly 51 years

by Phoebe in

jw
friends

been reading this site for awhile now.

i have had a long and often tragic life as a jw.

my story is so long because i'm pretty old :) i feel sad i've been locked in fear and guilt for my entire life.

Alive!

Hi Phoebe,

I just popped in here and your intro caught my attention, so please may I add my voice to this thread of lovely welcomes and encouragements.

I'm 60 years old and wearily said 'NO!' to all that Watchtower 'stuff' three to for years ago. We walked through some seriously painful days, as you can understand.

I started this post with the words 'popped in' as I haven't contributed here for awhile - slowly but surely life has taken on a new breath of its own and I can actually be happy and at peace with myself and with God....living apart from all the WT chaos and the hurt that goes with it.

Yes, I keep faith, stronger than ever, yet totally understand why many don't after the manipulative and dishonest faith bending tactics of the WT.

Like others here, I want to send you words of support. You are not alone here.

Keep brave dear.

Love Alive x