Posts by AGuest

9

What is a Gargoyl?

by nojw86 in

jw
friends

after reading zazu pitts post and that old bossart hotel which was bought by the jw.

still had the gargolys on its roof top amazed me, since i thougt that gargoyls were domonic stautes.

can anyone help me withsome input onthis one?

AGuest

Dearest nojw86... may you have peace!

Actually, You Know is wrong... again. Gargoyles are NOT 'demonic', but are actually the OPPOSITE... earthly representations of GOOD angels. (Lordy, You Know... STOP LISTENING to the 'false christs'!)

Gargoyles are the closest thing that I can describe as to how spirit beings REALLY look. I have done that in the post " http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=6510&site=3"; under the "Bible" part of this Forum.

You Know has let himself be part of those 'chosen ones' who are 'misled' into the saying that is GOOD... is bad... and what is BAD... is good.

"Dragons"... "gargoyles", etc., are NOT bad. As I was privileged to share on H20, the oldest recorded civilization, the Chinese, REVERE dragons, and refer to TWO of them as the 'guardians of paradise'. Why? Because it was cherubs that guarded Eden. And cherubs are 'seraphs'. And seraphs... are 'saraphs'... or FIERY SERPENTS. And serpents... with wings and legs... are 'dragons'.

People DECRY gargoyles because of their physical appearance. And that is because WE... are concerned with the OUTWARD appearance. But gargoyles were PLACED on castles and cathedrals to PROTECT them FROM demons! Duh! And the only thing that can 'conquer' a BAD spirit... is a GOOD spirit.

In truth, spirit beings DO resembly dragons and gargoyles. Sorry, folks, but that it is the TRUTH. It is SATAN, whose beauty corrupted HIM... that has misled us to seeing with our EYES and thinking that everything GOOD... is physically beautiful. Nothing could be FURTHER from the truth, and it is quite the opposite, actually.

My Father considers beautiful, what is beautiful... ON THE INSIDE. Satan, indeed was beautiful... on the OUTSIDE. But INSIDE, he was as his 'children', the Pharisees... 'full of deadmen's bones'. My Lord, however, was GHASTLY on the OUTSIDE... but inside, FULL of beauty.

I am not lying to you; I am telling the truth. That is WHY... when my Lord returns and EVERY eye SEES him, 'what had NOT be recounted to them, they will actually see..." and they will then cry to the mountains, "FALL OVER US!"

For earthling man, for the most part, has NOT been prepared. They have been prepared to receive SATAN, the BEAUTIFUL one, and NOT my Lord, the one whose appearance was 'not to be desired.'

Does the WTBTS fellas KNOW this? Of COURSE, they do! That is why they have NO problem with the gargoyles remaining. But if they TOLD you this 'truth', they would then have to admit that they have LIED to you. Just as 'christendom' have used certain things, like Purgatory and exorcism to scare the HELL out of people and into subservience to THEM... so, too, the WTBTS has used Armageddon and a false fear of demons and what they do and LOOK like to scare folks into serving them. Tell me... WHO in the Bible was AFRAID of demons?! Name ONE person! Teling you the TRUTH, however, would open the door to the revelation of many MORE lies. And they can't have THAT... can they?

Carey Barber... I KNOW who you are and who your 'leader' is, don't I?

I bid you peace, nojw86.

A slave of Christ,

SJ

28

Sat. Dist. Conv.--Cracking the whip!

by LostMyReligion in

jw
friends

i have put in my final day at this year's test of posterior endurance---saturday at the district convention, 2001. i took quite a few notes today, because some had specifically asked about saturday's program.

i hope all will be suitably edified by them.

do not just listen to bits and pieces of the program, but to the whole thing.

AGuest

Dearest LMR... may you have peace!

Your 'experience' and opinion of it is reminiscent of 1 Kings 12:4, 11, with 'christendom' being the father... and the WTBTS, 'Rehoboam'. Truly, there is NOTHING new... under the sun.

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SJ

5

Gopher, Littleone, et. al.

by kes152 in

i was 'moved' to share with you the words of my lord.. he said:.

"i am the living bread that came down from heaven so that anyone may eat of it and not die.. unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves.. whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and i will resurrect him on the last day.. for my flesh is true food indeed, and my blood is true drink indeed.. whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me and i in union with him.. this is the true food that came down from heaven.

if anyone eats of it he will live for ever.".

AGuest

Peace to you, my brother... and AMEN and AMEN!

I am, as always, your servant, sister and fellow slave of Christ, until time indefinite...

SJ

15

Satan, Serpents, Seraphs, Dragons... and Wisdom

by AGuest in

may you all have peace!.

i would like to interject independently of a thread below, where the debate is satan being god's 'wife'... and therefore, wisdom.. 1. satan... was one of the 'cherubs' that was 'covering' the ark of the covenant.

michael is the other 'arkangel', and both were created to 'cover' the propitiatory... which 'covers'... the ark.. exodus 25:17-22. ezekiel 28:14, 17.

AGuest

Sorry, 'Pom... but again, you are in error. Let's take a look:

---------------
Two prophecies of Christ on the cross are vividly portrayed by Israel and Moses...
Gen 48:12-14
12 Then Joseph removed them from Israel's knees and bowed down with his face to the ground. 13 And Joseph took both of them, Ephraim on his right toward Israel's left hand and Manasseh on his left toward Israel's right hand, and brought them close to him. 14 But Israel reached out his right hand and put it on Ephraim's head, though he was the younger, and crossing his arms, he put his left hand on Manasseh's head, even though Manasseh was the firstborn.

The "Right" went to #2 by way of a cross.
#2 (as Christ is of God) gets the blessing of the firstborn [you do realize Christ is both of these depictions, #2 AND firstborn]] by way of the crossed arms of Israel.
---------------

'Pom, this is in fulfillment and 'type' of the younger receiving the blessing over the older, in different ways:

1. PHYSICALLY, it is represented by Ishamel (the older) and Isaac (the younger), and the one being born in the manner of a PROMISE (Isaac), receiving the inheritance over the one born in the manner of the FLESH (Ishmael).

2. SPIRITUALLY, it is represented by Adam (God's first 'son', by the Earth/Hagar, and therefore, the older), and my Lord, JAHESHUA, (God's second 'son', by Jerusalem Above/Sarah, and therefore the younger), and the one being born in the manner of a PROMISE (my Lord), receiving the inheritance over the one born in the manner of the FLESH (Adam).

---------------
Ex 17:10-13
10 So Joshua fought the Amalekites as Moses had ordered, and Moses, Aaron and Hur went to the top of the hill. 11 As long as Moses held up his hands, the Israelites were winning, but whenever he lowered his hands, the Amalekites were winning. 12 When Moses' hands grew tired, they took a stone and put it under him and he sat on it. Aaron and Hur held his hands up--one on one side, one on the other--so that his hands remained steady till sunset. 13 So Joshua overcame the Amalekite army with the sword.

Moses arms were held up left and right by Aaron and Hur in the position of the outstretched arms of the Christ. The text plainly states his arms were held up on EACH SIDE, not over the head. Christ remained on the cross till sunset just as Moses remained true to the prophecy. Moses sitting on a rock is also important as that was in symbol of Christ relying fully on His Father (the Rock) for ALL SUPPORT as Christ was to willingly die for ALL THINGS.
------------------

Yep, and just as Moses lifted up his hand... and the copper serpent... so, too, it is my Lord... and NOT SATAN... that was 'lifted up'... so that we might have life.

-------------------
Regarding your premise that the Christ and Satan both die on the same instrument of death:

2 Cor 6:14-16
For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols?

NOTHING. Not even the instrument of death.
--------------------

Uh, I NEVER said Satan died on a pole. YOU said that, with your analogy of a serpent only being hung on a pole by it being stuck through his head. What you failed to 'see'... is that while indeed, a tent peg was driven through Sisera's head, etc., Satan was to be CRUSHED in the head.

----------------
quote:

At what point anywhere does any Bible writer refer to Satan as having ANY appearance of 'copper'? None. However, my Lord is described as having copper feet by TWO prophets, Daniel and John.

Snake = Satan, always has, always will.
--------------------

Then what, dear one, is a SERAPH... and why are there FOUR of them around the throne of my Father? 'Satan' means 'slanderer'... and not 'snake'. 'Snake'... is 'serpent'... and 'fiery serpent'... is 'saraph'. And 'seraphs'... are 'cherubs'.

The SERPENT that Moses lifted up... was copper. The ONLY other reference in ALL of the Bible to a being of copper... is with reference to my Lord. IS his skin like 'copper'. Yes, indeedy, it is. For I have seen it, just as did Daniel and John. And it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the color of flesh as known in THIS system of things. You are referring to flesh, 'with its blood'... which cannot ENTER into the kingdom of the heavens, dearest 'Pom.

---------------
At what point anywhere is Christ refered to as a snake on a pole? Copper is earthen.
---------------

Really. You think so? Then why are the streets of New Jerusalem... GOLD? Why was Satan 'covered' with 'every precious stone' and his 'sockets' of gold? Why are the 'foundations' of the city's walls 'adorned with every precious stone'? You're thinking WAY too small, 'Pom. You have your mind 'upon the things on the earth'. You must think BIGGER.

--------------
Both Satan and Christ became earthen as copper is. How so? Christ's feet touched the ground on His quest to salvage his earthen vessels. The serpents belly, which stems from it's head all the way to it's tail AS BEEN CONDEMNED to the earthen ground to eat the dust of the earth, as he is the perpetrator of earthen corruption. Copper. Satan from head to body. Christ, only his feet. Satan corrupted what's earthen. Christ's salvages what's been corrupted. Copper is earthen.
--------------

Uh, 'Pom... besides the fact that SATAN wasn't condemned to the earth at the point to which you refer, when both Daniel and John SAW my Lord... he was a SPIRIT... and not 'earthen'. Daniel saw him BEFORE he had 'put on' the 'soiled garment'... earthly and therefore SINFUL flesh (Romans 8:3)... and John saw him AFTER he had put it 'off'. He was 'copper' in appearance BOTH times.

Copper is no MORE 'earthen' than is gold, chrysolite, onyx, iron, clay (which is REALLY the most 'earthen'), silver, topaz, etc., etc. And ALL of these represent what existed LONG before the earth came into existence. As I was permitted to state to you before, that which is NOW, came OUT of that which existed before it.

My Lord is the COPPER one, in that he is/was the PLAIN looking one, in contrast to Satan's BEAUTY. The 'cover' or 'propitiatory' of the Ark of the Covenant was pure gold; however, the CHERUBS on TOP of the cover... those created to PROTECT the cover... were MUCH more elaborate... being made of 'hammered' gold, which denoted master artistry. And the faces of the two cherubs... were TOWARD the 'cover'.

When I was taken BEFORE that Ark, in the Most Holy of my Father (I was TAKEN there by my Lord, for I could NOT have 'entered' except THROUGH him...), this is what I saw:

The Ark was a smallish rectangular 'box'... and it was magnificent. The one that Moses had made was NOTHING compared to it. It was indeed gold, only it was not 'covered' in gold, but SOLID gold. The cover was solid gold, too, but inlaid in its lid was a COPPER serpent... with legs AND wings. A 'dragon', by this world's standard, but not by that one's.

On TOP of the cover... on each END... were two MAGNIFICENT... jewel ENCRUSTED... 'dragons'. MUCH more beautiful than the one of the cover. MUCH more. And at the behest of 'others' (I won't go into that now...), these to began a FEARSOME battle. And the one on the RIGHT, knocked the one on the LEFT... OFF the 'cover'. And the one that was knocked off... was hurled OUT of that place, the Most Holy, out past the place just outside of that, the Holy, outside of THAT place, the Courtyard of the Priests, outside of THAT place, the Courtyard of Israel... outside of THAT place, the Couryard of Women, outside of THAT place, the Courtyard of the Gentiles, until it was COMPLETELY outside of the 'temple' area altogether.

It was hurled out of THOSE 'heavens'... to the 'heaven'... or spirit realm just outside of the PHYSICAL realm. And it is there that that one 'sat', and as 'seeds' on the earth making their way BACK to the Ark (from where they originated), it attempted to DEVOUR them. Some, it did, right out. Others turned back and it chased them down until it caught them... and devoured them.

A few of the 'seeds', however, either hit it head on, OPPOSED it, and IT backed down and so they made it past it, or they managed to somehow get AROUND it.

Now, I know that you are not interested in hearing of what I have seen and heard. But you are not the only 'player' in this game, and I have an OBLIGATION to share with others what has been given me. I RECEIVED it 'free', by means of the 'free gift' of holy spirit that I also received... and I GIVE it free, along with such spirit.

And if you choose to see NOT the 'good' in that, but 'wish' to see only the 'bad'... that IS what you will see. And that IS... entirely YOUR perogative. As for me, I STILL bid you peace and remain,

YOUR servant, a servant to the Household of God, Israel, and a slave of Christ,

SJ

25

Who Was Cain Afraid of?

by patio34 in

when god banished cain, why was he in fear of his life when there was only he and his family on the earth?

after all, how many could there have been and is it logical to think they were everywhere else--anywhere else but where cain and his family lived?

so, who was he afraid of that would take his life?.

AGuest

------------
:>Rom 4:15
"15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression."
------------

Then the angels didn't sin, Adam and Eve did sin, Cain and Moses didn't committ murder... and sin. Because according to you, there was no law. But you are in error in your understanding of this verse. It is saying WHERE there is no law, there is no transgression. These all 'transgressed'... because there WAS law. That is why the 'nations' weren't held to the same standard as Israel, for they did NOT have the Law written on stone to THEM. And yet, all of the nations will be 'gathered' before my Lord to be jugdged, yes? On the basis of what 'law'?

--------------
:>Rom 5:13-14
13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law."
--------------

Again you misunderstand the verse. May I ask you, before the law was given to WHOM? The world? No, for the law was not GIVEN to the world. The nations? Nope. It was not given to the nations. The Law was GIVEN... to Israel. So, yes, before the Law the sin OF ISRAEL was in the world, but there was no PAYMENT for it by Israel, for they had not had the law WRITTEN... and then covenanted to OBEY it.

Let me ask you... if there was no law... why was EVERYONE but Noah destroyed by the Flood? If there was no Law, for what 'sin' were they paying? What 'wrong' had they committed? Who SAID it was 'wrong'?

-------------
:>"Sin came first, law came second. Law is made for bad, bad has to exist first before law is mandated, as is stated in Romans 5. What is sin?

1 John 3:4
4...sin is lawlessness."
-------------

If SIN... came FIRST... then sin ALWAYS existed, even before Adam and Eve committed it! No, dear one... LAW came first... sin is TRANGRESSION against Law, and therefore sin is LAWLESS-ness. It is people conducting themselves WITHOUT law. Adam and Eve TRANSGRESSES... LAW... and acted WITHOUT law... LAWLESS... and therefore sinned. However, ABEL.. was LAWFUL. Enoch... was LAWFUL. Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph... were all LAWFUL. And yet, none of these had the Law... written. But in fact, they DID. It was not 'written' on stone tablets, but on their HEARTS, exactly where my Father put it.

And He has PUT that law on ALL hearts. However... MANY conduct themselves AGAINST that law... and therefore, are lawLESS. Israel showed themselves to be 'lawLESS' by murmuring and complaining just the better side of the Red Sea. They showed that the law was NOT written on their hearts anymore, their selfish desire had ERASED it, as had Adam's, Eve's and Cain's... and so, since JAH could not write it AGAIN on their hearts... for their hearts were HARD... He wrote it on something as HARD as their hearts... stone tablets.

Sin is indeed 'lawlessness'. And lawlessness... is disobedience. Disobedience... to WHAT?

--------------
:>"Sin is NO control. It is anarchic. Satan was anarchy. Law is the control. The out of control comes first because of the ABSENCE of law, the control of law comes second, because God is a God of order and peace."
--------------

Excellent point. Tell me, did Satan start OUT with anarchy? Or was he CREATED... WITH law... until 'unrighteousness was FOUND in him'? Again, what about the angels that did NOT sin? Did they not use self-control in order NOT to desire the 'daughters of men', the same as WE use it not to commit fornication and adultery? If there was no law, dear one, then ALL creation started OUT with no law... and thus, STARTED in LAWLESSNESS... and therefore, started IN SIN. But it did not. God 'set' things just where it pleased HIM... and created them just as it pleased HIM. And He SAID... it was 'good'. Sin and lawlessness... are bad. LawFULness... is 'good'.

------------
Your quote of my quote and your response:

:>"For example, I ask you both... with regard to the angels... THAT SINNED, what 'sin' did they commit? What 'law' did they break?

That's that whole point friend. Sin is LAWLESSNESS. When sin breaks law it is called TRANSGRESSION or TRESSPASS. The angels sinned before law."
----------------

Yes, and therefore, if the angels that sinned were lawLESS... what were/are the angels that did NOT sin? Uh, the word is 'lawFUL'.

---------------
:>Rom 5:15
For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,

Adam broke the law, his sin was a tresspass. Adam was the first being created by God with law.

Rom 4:15
...law brings wrath.
---------------------

Hmmmmm... Adam was the first being created by God with law. I find that interesting. Tell me, who sinned first... Adam? Or Satan? Adam was TOLD not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge. What was Satan TOLD, that WE know of... that rendered HIM to be called a 'manslayer' and 'the FATHER of the lie'? Was deceiving Eve wrong? By what 'law'? Was leading Adam into his death and that of all earthling man wrong? By what 'law'? If Adam was the first being created by God 'under law'... why was the SERPENT condemned? What 'law' was he 'under', so that he should be cursed eternally?

------------------
That means ALL law. Even Adam's teensie law.
Once the law of the tree was in place, the wrath of God was imminent as Adam WAS GOING TO SIN and God knew it. That's what the law was for...to be broken.
------------------

Again, you are in error. For all that is here... came out of what is there. And if there is law HERE... there most CERTAINLY is law there. For 'there'... existed FIRST. What exists HERE, is, in fact, a REFLECTION of that which was in existence LONG before us. JAH didn't HAVE to write down the law for spirit beings; they KNEW what it was... just as, in truth, most of US know what is 'lawful' and what is 'lawless'. However, quite apparently, not ALL of us can read 'the writing on the wal... uh, heart', and therefore, must SEE it written in STONE... or ink. And that is simply because... such ones walk by SIGHT... and not by spirit and faith.

Ecclesiastes 1:8-10
Ecclesiastes 3:15

---------------
Again, your quote of my quote and your response:

For violating what 'law' was the serpent, Satan, cursed?

Lawlessness, Satan was cursed for anarchy and lawlessness. He was in the Garden of Eden, someplace he had no business in being. He thumbs his nose at the God of order, and brings disorder and chaos.
-----------------

And again, I ask you if Satan was CREATED in lawlessness? You may wish to review Ezekiel 28:15 before you answer. According to that scripture, it says he was FAULTLESS... therefore, PERFECT... therefore SINLESS... and therefore lawFUL.

-----------------
quote:

What 'bad' did God already KNOW... in order that if Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge... they would become LIKE God?

God came to KNOW the resistor himself. God came to KNOW "bad/evil" for the first time from eternity. Bad, anarchy and chaos was CREATED by Satan, and became KNOWN to God and all in the heavenly realm, by Satan brining it into existence. Adam and Eve then came to KNOW Satan as God came KNOW Satan.
----------------

Really. Was there no enmity BEFORE Adam's sin? Was there no 'division'? Indeed, there was, for JAH Himself PUT a division between the Light (John 8:12) and the Darkness (1 John 2:11; 2 Corinthians 4:4).

----------------

quote:

Indeed, AS I STATED TO YOU... there was no WRITTEN law, but there WAS... and still IS... 'oral' law. Adam and Eve were given an ORAL law, were they not?

There is only ONE kind of law. It is oral. It is written down when the law becomes so complex (Mosaic Law) that it could not be remembered. Adams first law was a mere single statement. Oral. That's all that was needed. Before Adam's first law, NO LAW. Love needs no law, and that's all there was before Satan. LOVE and order.
-------------------

Order... dear one... IS 'law'.

---------------
quote

If there was no 'law', and the only 'law' was the WRITTEN law, how then could Joseph consider havin relations with Potiphar's wife a 'sin against God'? Was there a law setting forth 'sin'?

Jesus answered your question a long time ago ORALLY:

Matt 19:4-6
4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

Joseph would have violated the above. He knew that action as "sin" as it very well was, as defined from the beginning. Joseph would have violated God's "one flesh" arrangement. The second oral law from God.
-----------------

First, you are mixing two issues... marriage to one mate... and adultery. If the issue was one mate, then indeed, Joseph's FATHER, Jacob... who had FOUR wives... had 'transgressed law'... yes? But, he was neither judged nor condemned, was he? The ISSUE was that Potiphar had held NOTHING from Joseph... EXCEPT his wife... and for Joseph to take her would NOT have been only adultery... but COVETOUSNESS. Yet, where was the law against 'coveting' your neighbor's wife? Indeed, where was the law against adultery? It has not yet been written, yes? But Joseph KNEW it. Why was Jacob not guilty of adultery? Because ADULTERY... is having relations with a MARRIED woman. The women Jacob married and had relations with, belonged to no other.

--------------
quote:

What 'law' did Cain break in killing Abel?

Whatever God says is right and wrong becomes law:

Gen 4:7
But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."

Cain was told by God his evil intentions were sin BEFORE he did it. He broke the above law to "do what is right" and to "master" his sinful thought.
------------------

Indeed, Cain had ALREADY committed sin... in his heart, yes? As James stated:

"Then the DESIRE, when it becomes FERTILE, gives BIRTH
... to SIN. (But the ACT has not yet been committed,
because he goes ON to say...); in turn, SIN, when it has
been ACCOMPLISHED, brings forth death."

What was Cain's initial 'sin'? His ANGER. There was and is 'law' against anger. Yet, Cain had not yet MURDERED. But Cain was DISCIPLINED for his sin of ANGER prior to his action, because his sacrifices WERE NOT ACCEPTABLE. If Cain was 'sinless' until he murdered Abel, JAH would have had NO reason to reject his offerings. Cain was ALREADY sinning... in his heart... which rendered him unclean ON THE INSIDE... which sin JAH saw... and warned him of the 'fruit' of that sin. Cain did not listen... IN HIS HEART... and carried out the FRUIT of that sin. He 'accomplished' his anger, and by relation his TECHNICAL murder of his brother, by killing his brother... LITERALLY.

----------------
The rest of your post is confusing at best...

----------------

Yes, I understand, for the saying is true:

"For whom among men knows the thing of a man
except the SPIRIT of man that is in him? So,
too, no one has come to know the SPIRIT of God.
Now, WE... RECEIVED... NOT the spirit of the
world... but the spirit... WHICH IS FROM GOD,
that WE might know the things that have been
kindly given US... by God. These things WE
also speak, NOT with words taught by HUMAN
wisdom, but with those taught by THE SPIRIT,
as WE combine SPIRITUAL... with SPIRITUAL.

"BUT... a PHYSICAL man does not RECEIVE the
things of the spirit of God, FOR THEY ARE
FOOLISHNESS TO HIM; and he CANNOT get to
know them... because... THEY ARE EXAMINED
SPIRITUALLY. However... the SPIRITUAL man
examines indeed ALL things, but he himself
is not examined BY ANY MAN.

"For 'who has come to know the mind of JAH,
that he may instruct Him?' BUT... we DO
have... the mind of Christ."

Please know that my use of caps is not screaming or shouting, but purely emphasis as I do not know how to use html for purposes of bolding/italics on this Board. I understand WHY you don't see what I see... and hear what I hear, 'Pom. But, as I have said to you at least once before, it does not have to be that way. You can ALWAYS follow the admonition of Revelation 3:17, 18 and 22:17.

BTW, my Lord has directed me to inform you that in that realm, there are 'governments and rulerships and principalities'... and they ALL exist by and under LAW. It is for transgressing law in THAT realm, which included conduct in THIS one... that Satan and HIS angels battled, lost, and were 'cast out'. It is for transgression of law in THAT realm, that the angels that 'sinned'... are confined in Tartarus. It is for transgression of law in THAT realm, that the PIT of the Abyss exists, to all those SPIRITS... who sin. If there was not law there... there would have been no 'transgression of law' there. There could NOT have been.

Ephesians 6:12 (may I suggest you look this one up in the Greek also?)

I bid you peace... and remain,

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SJ

272

McVeigh vs Death Penalty

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i am a policitcal conservative, at least a fiscal conservative and sociel moderate.

i support the death penalty, but i agree that our judicial system needs to overhaul how wwe treat criminals to achieve better rehabilitation results.

and of course, withhold the death penalty in cases where there could be doubt.. in mcveigh's case, i believe that he deserves the death penalty.

AGuest

Dearest Tina and Amazing... may you both have peace!

I would like to comment, if I may:

The common operative word in your respective posts is 'we', which I take you both to mean the human race (sorry to those who dislike that terminology; it was 'handy'). And that right there should kinda answer the question for you, Tina. Those who 'belong' to this system of things... those who consider themselves a part of 'we'... are a law 'unto themselves'. Tim McVeigh, by even having issues with 'we', and by placing himself as judge and avenger over the 'we', has put himself under law to 'we'. Thus, he was judged and condemned... and will die... at the hand of 'we'. 'They' are no better than he... and by his actions, he, no better than 'they'.

There are some, however, who are not a part of the 'we', and no, I am not talking about the WTBTS, for in truth, they constitute themselves a part of 'we' whenever it benefits them. If they NEED something from the 'we', you can bet they will demand it, and even join forces WITH the 'we' in order to obtain it.

I am speaking of those who truly believe my Lord words, 'let the one WITHOUT sin... cast the first stone.' Since I am a sinner and so are my family and friends, and I want to be shown MERCY... for myself and my family... I truly cannot judge and condemn another. If that one ASKS for mercy, I must extend it.

However, IF that one constitutes him or herself as a part of 'we'... if that person shows themself to BE a part of 'we'... and if that person's lack of repentance PROVES that they are not a part of 'us' and therefore a part of 'we'... then I am in my full right not to concern myself with whether such one is judged... and condemned... BY 'we'. Such one becomes 'as the world and a tax collector'.

Do I hate such one? No. Do I judge such one? No. Condemn. Uh-uh. Wish ill-will? Nope. If I see him/her hungry and I have the means, I WILL feed him/her. If I see him/her naked, and I have the means, I WILL clothe him/her. But, as long as he/she is a part of 'we'... I can do nothing to stop 'we'... from carrying out THEIR laws.

This is quite different from the 'no part of this world' that the WTBTS 'sells'. They use such phrase as a means of isolation to their convenience and benefit, turning it on and off as they see fit: 'we're no part of the world, so the world's judgments mean nothing to us', as they seek decisions to their advantage from worldly courts.

When my Lord said that we were 'no part of the world,' he did not say we were to BE no part of the world. He said that the world would HATE us BECAUSE we were no part of it. But Timothy McVeigh, the FBI, the United Nations, the Pope, the Dalai Lama, etc., etc., do not 'hate' me. The ONLY people in THIS world that hate me... are those who still associate with the WTBTS. And they 'hate' me, because I am no part... of them. For they ARE indeed 'fond of their own.'

Tim McVeigh put himself in the hands of those considered 'we', by his acts. He was not wrongly judged and condemned because he committed no sin, nor was he wrongly judged and condemned for the sake of the Christ and giving witness to him and God. The Law Covenant said 'an eye for an eye... a life for a life.' Tim took that Law... into his own hands and avenged a life... for a life. Now, he, too, will face the very Law HE lived by... and pay for it... with his physical life.

As regards his spirit, however, my Father shows mercy... to whomever HE wishes to show mercy. Whether Tim McVeigh is condemned eternally, and receives judgment rather than life at his resurrection, is a decision that belongs to God and has not yet been revealed to us.

I hope this helps and as always, bid you love and peace.

Your servant (your sis, Tina), and a slave of Christ,

SJ

15

Satan, Serpents, Seraphs, Dragons... and Wisdom

by AGuest in

may you all have peace!.

i would like to interject independently of a thread below, where the debate is satan being god's 'wife'... and therefore, wisdom.. 1. satan... was one of the 'cherubs' that was 'covering' the ark of the covenant.

michael is the other 'arkangel', and both were created to 'cover' the propitiatory... which 'covers'... the ark.. exodus 25:17-22. ezekiel 28:14, 17.

AGuest

Dearest 'Pom... may you have peace!

Let's look at the copper serpent issue, first (which I notice you didn't quote, but brought in a totally irrelevant thought with regard to Jael, et al., which I do not disagree with).

Let's look at Numbers 21:5-9:

"And the people kept speaking AGAINST God and Moses:
'Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in
the wilderness? For there is no bread and no water
and our soul has come to abhor the contemptible
bread (they didn't like manna anymore...). "So...
JAH sent POISONOUS serpent among the people and
they kept biting the people so that many people
of Israel died.

"Finally the people came to Moses and said: 'We
have sinned against JAH and against you. Inter-
cede with JAH that He may REMOVE the serpents from
upon us.' And Moses went interceding in behalf of
the people. Then... JAH said to Moses, 'Make for
yourself a fiery snake (saraph; seraph) and place
it upon a signal pole. And it must occur that
when ANYONE has been bitten (and thus going to die),
he then HAS to look at it and so must keep alive.
Moses at once made a serpent OF COPPER and placed
it upon the signal pole; and it DID occur that IF
a serpent had bitten a man and he gazed at the
COPPER serpent, he THEN... kept alive."

Okay, so the Israelites had to gaze at this copper serpent... on a pole... in order not to die.

Now, let's look at what my Lord said at John 3:14, 15:

"Just as Moses LIFTED UP THE SNAKE in the desert,
so THE SON OF MAN MUST BE LIFTED UP, that everyone
WHO BELIEVES IN HIM may have eternal LIFE."

See the similarity there, 'Pom? Problem is, you have my Lord lifted up on a cross... when in fact he was not. He was lifted up on a POLE (the WTBTS says a 'stake', but they, too, are in error...), with a board or limb across the topmost end... which RESEMBLED a "T"... but to the Greeks speaking Jews was a 'pole'.

You have entirely used speculation and conjecture in your 'theory' on this. But let's not stop there. At what point anywhere does any Bible writer refer to Satan as having ANY appearance of 'copper'? None. However, my Lord is described as having copper feet by TWO prophets, Daniel and John.

Daniel 10:6
Revelation 1:15

At what point does any writer say that it is SATAN that must be gazed upon to gain life? However, they DO say, with reference to my Lord, at Hebrews 12:1, 2:

"So, then, because we have do great a cloud of
witnesses surrounding us, let us also put off
every weight and the sin that easily entangles
us, and let us run with endurance the race that
is set before us... AS WE LOOK INTENTLY at the
Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, JAHESHUA."

What is a 'chief agent', 'Pom, and what is my Lord 'Chief Agent' OF? An 'agent' is one who acts on behalf of another and 'brokers' something for that one. My Lord... is the 'Chief Agent'... of LIFE... and is the one the BROKERS 'life' for us! Thus, just as the Israelites were to look at that coppper serpent in order to live... WE... must look INTENTLY at the COPPER-FOOTED Chief Agent of Life... who was hung ON A POLE... for life! We must continue to gaze at my Lord... and NOT take our gaze off him.

But we can't DO that... if indeed we can't SEE him... can we? But we CAN see him. We can do it, however, NOT with sight... but with SPIRIT. For he IS a spirit and it is only WITH the spirit that he can be seen.

With regard to your position on Colossians 2:16-19, let me quote the orignal Greek for you, if I may. I started to do this for you last night, but dealt only with the fact that you misunderstood the statement. Here is what the original GREEK states:

"Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath NOT seen, vainly puffed up by his FLESHLY mind..."

Again, I say to you that if seeing things of THAT world... and relating such things... is wrong, then all of the prophets who did so were wrong... as was John.

With regard to your statement that:

"The next time Christ shows something, it will be on a worldwide scale..."

I must say that you are incorrect. If you recall, my Lord said, before ascending to my Father, "Look! I am WITH you all the days..." He MEANT that, 'Pom. Unfortunately, it takes FAITH to see and hear him... and 'faith, is not the possession of all men.' However, you are correct in that when he returns, indeed... EVERY EYE... will see him. You BETCHA. And, as I was permitted to relate to you... folks are going to be MIGHT surprised. Better start pickin' out which mountain you're gonna want to 'fall over you', then.

With regard to your statement that his revelation would not be "just to some guy sitting behind his CRT screen professing visions of God...", I say to you:

1. My visions of God are quite rare... it is usually my Lord and other spirit beings, events;

2. I am a 'gal'; and

3. My screen is a Super VGA. If YOU are still staring at a CRT, perhaps you would want to step out of the 'dark ages'... and into the 'light' of 24-bit.

I bid you peace... honestly and truthfully... and I remain,

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SJ

15

Satan, Serpents, Seraphs, Dragons... and Wisdom

by AGuest in

may you all have peace!.

i would like to interject independently of a thread below, where the debate is satan being god's 'wife'... and therefore, wisdom.. 1. satan... was one of the 'cherubs' that was 'covering' the ark of the covenant.

michael is the other 'arkangel', and both were created to 'cover' the propitiatory... which 'covers'... the ark.. exodus 25:17-22. ezekiel 28:14, 17.

AGuest

Dearest 'Pom... may you have peace!

Let's look at the copper serpent issue, first (which I notice you didn't quote, but brought in a totally irrelevant thought with regard to Jael, et al., which I do not disagree with).

Let's look at Numbers 21:5-9:

"And the people kept speaking AGAINST God and Moses:
'Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in
the wilderness? For there is no bread and no water
and our soul has come to abhor the contemptible
bread (they didn't like manna anymore...). "So...
JAH sent POISONOUS serpent among the people and
they kept biting the people so that many people
of Israel died.

"Finally the people came to Moses and said: 'We
have sinned against JAH and against you. Inter-
cede with JAH that He may REMOVE the serpents from
upon us.' And Moses went interceding in behalf of
the people. Then... JAH said to Moses, 'Make for
yourself a fiery snake (saraph; seraph) and place
it upon a signal pole. And it must occur that
when ANYONE has been bitten (and thus going to die),
he then HAS to look at it and so must keep alive.
Moses at once made a serpent OF COPPER and placed
it upon the signal pole; and it DID occur that IF
a serpent had bitten a man and he gazed at the
COPPER serpent, he THEN... kept alive."

Okay, so the Israelites had to gaze at this copper serpent... on a pole... in order not to die.

Now, let's look at what my Lord said at John 3:14, 15:

"Just as Moses LIFTED UP THE SNAKE in the desert,
so THE SON OF MAN MUST BE LIFTED UP, that everyone
WHO BELIEVES IN HIM may have eternal LIFE."

See the similarity there, 'Pom? Problem is, you have my Lord lifted up on a cross... when in fact he was not. He was lifted up on a POLE (the WTBTS says a 'stake', but they, too, are in error...), with a board or limb across the topmost end... which RESEMBLED a "T"... but to the Greeks speaking Jews was a 'pole'.

You have entirely used speculation and conjecture in your 'theory' on this. But let's not stop there. At what point anywhere does any Bible writer refer to Satan as having ANY appearance of 'copper'? None. However, my Lord is described as having copper feet by TWO prophets, Daniel and John.

Daniel 10:6
Revelation 1:15

At what point does any writer say that it is SATAN that must be gazed upon to gain life? However, they DO say, with reference to my Lord, at Hebrews 12:1, 2:

"So, then, because we have do great a cloud of
witnesses surrounding us, let us also put off
every weight and the sin that easily entangles
us, and let us run with endurance the race that
is set before us... AS WE LOOK INTENTLY at the
Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, JAHESHUA."

What is a 'chief agent', 'Pom, and what is my Lord 'Chief Agent' OF? An 'agent' is one who acts on behalf of another and 'brokers' something for that one. My Lord... is the 'Chief Agent'... of LIFE... and is the one the BROKERS 'life' for us! Thus, just as the Israelites were to look at that coppper serpent in order to live... WE... must look INTENTLY at the COPPER-FOOTED Chief Agent of Life... who was hung ON A POLE... for life! We must continue to gaze at my Lord... and NOT take our gaze off him.

But we can't DO that... if indeed we can't SEE him... can we? But we CAN see him. We can do it, however, NOT with sight... but with SPIRIT. For he IS a spirit and it is only WITH the spirit that he can be seen.

With regard to your position on Colossians 2:16-19, let me quote the orignal Greek for you, if I may. I started to do this for you last night, but dealt only with the fact that you misunderstood the statement. Here is what the original GREEK states:

"Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath NOT seen, vainly puffed up by his FLESHLY mind..."

Again, I say to you that if seeing things of THAT world... and relating such things... is wrong, then all of the prophets who did so were wrong... as was John.

With regard to your statement that:

"The next time Christ shows something, it will be on a worldwide scale..."

I must say that you are incorrect. If you recall, my Lord said, before ascending to my Father, "Look! I am WITH you all the days..." He MEANT that, 'Pom. Unfortunately, it takes FAITH to see and hear him... and 'faith, is not the possession of all men.' However, you are correct in that when he returns, indeed... EVERY EYE... will see him. You BETCHA. And, as I was permitted to relate to you... folks are going to be MIGHT surprised. Better start pickin' out which mountain you're gonna want to 'fall over you', then.

With regard to your statement that his revelation would not be "just to some guy sitting behind his CRT screen professing visions of God...", I say to you:

1. My visions of God are quite rare... it is usually my Lord and other spirit beings, events;

2. I am a 'gal'; and

3. My screen is a Super VGA. If YOU are still staring at a CRT, perhaps you would want to step out of the 'dark ages'... and into the 'light' of 24-bit.

I bid you peace... honestly and truthfully... and I remain,

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SJ

25

Who Was Cain Afraid of?

by patio34 in

when god banished cain, why was he in fear of his life when there was only he and his family on the earth?

after all, how many could there have been and is it logical to think they were everywhere else--anywhere else but where cain and his family lived?

so, who was he afraid of that would take his life?.

AGuest

Dearest 'Pom and Waiting... may you both have peace!

'Pom, your quote of Galatians 5:24 is correct: against 'such things' (as love, joy, peace, faith, kindness, mildness, goodness, self-control and long-suffering)... there IS/WAS no 'law'. Is not now, never was and never will be. HOWEVER, there IS, WAS and will ALWAYS be... 'law' against the 'acts of sinful nature'.

For example, I ask you both... with regard to the angels... THAT SINNED, what 'sin' did they commit? What 'law' did they break?

For violating what 'law' was the serpent, Satan, cursed?

What 'bad' did God already KNOW... in order that if Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge... they would become LIKE God?

What 'law' did Cain break in killing Abel?

Indeed, AS I STATED TO YOU... there was no WRITTEN law, but there WAS... and still IS... 'oral' law. Adam and Eve were given an ORAL law, were they not?

If there was no 'law', and the only 'law' was the WRITTEN law, how then could Joseph consider havin relations with Potiphar's wife a 'sin against God'? Was there a law setting forth 'sin'?

What you are misunderstanding with regard to the WRITTEN law, was its purpose... and intent. It's purpose... was 'to make sin MANIFEST'. Prior to the law, people knew what sin was. They knew that killing was wrong. Otherwise, what need would Moses have had to flee? BUT... God had His law WRITTEN DOWN, so that there could be NO misunderstanding... or misinterpretation... among the Israelites. He left the nations to their OWN laws. Israel, however, He held to, indeed COVENANTED into, His.

The INTENT of the law, was to make 'sin' manifest... not to the judge, but to the SINNER. Why? So that such one would know and would SHOW... MERCY! How so? Because the law was not created so that Israel could condemn one another. The law was created so that each Israelite would know when HE or SHE sinned... and transgressed against another. It was created so that the Israelites would learn FORGIVENESS... and not condemnation.

If I killed your bull, the Law said I had to give you mine. However, if you killed MY bull, the Law said you had to give me yours. The TRUE spirit of the Law, however, was that if you killed my bull... I WOULD FORGIVE YOU... just as I would want YOU to forgive ME... if I killed YOUR bull.

Did you not hear how it was that my Lord 'fulfilled' the Law? He condemned NO ONE under it... although by sinning against the Law, and thus sinning against God, ALL had sinned against HIM! Yet, he FORGAVE them... and RELEASED them... from their debt to him and God. That is the lesson he wanted us to learn... to 'go on RELEASING'. Indeed, my Father 'released' Cain from his sin, did He not?

And while my Lord went RELEASING... he also 'kept an eye on himself' so that HE... transgressed against NO ONE... including God.

There has ALWAYS been 'law', dear ones. Indeed, it is by 'law' that the earth revolves where it does, as it does. It is by 'law' that the sun rises and sets each day. It is by 'law' that the fields give their produce. It is by 'law', that geese fly south for the winter.

Law existed, dear ones, before creation. There were laws in the spirit realm that SAID spirit creatures could not reproduce with earthling man. The angels that 'sinned'... broke that law. Was that law 'written'? Is it now? No, it is not, at least not in THIS realm.

You are limiting yourselves by thinking only of the things 'upon the earth'. You are, therefore, walking 'by sight' and not 'by spirit', and thus cannot see the things 'unseen', nor hear 'what the SPIRIT says.' But you do not have to continue this way. The invitation is open to you as well as to all of earthling man who so 'wishes' it, to:

"Come! Take 'life's water'... the holy spirit of God by means of Christ... free!"

Again, I bid you peace!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SJ

21

How do you define spirituality?

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

it's a general question for anyone, and it's a very personal one that requires personal answers.

i'm not asking what the bible says, what science says, what the dictionary says, or what your mother says.

i'm asking how you, as an individual with your own ideas, feelings and perceptions, conceptualize spirituality.

AGuest

Dearest 'Sun... may you have MUCH peace!

You are absolutely correct... I DID think you were addressing my post and I DID worry about it... all night. And I absolutely should have KNOWN better, for you have never disallowed me freedom of speech. I 'assumed', and have now made... well, you know how the saying goes and the answer is 'out of ME... and me' in this case.

Please forgive ME for misreading your intent. I have no other excuse other than MY own sensitivities and insecurities (STOOPID flesh... betrayed me AGAIN, didn't 'ya?). Wait... can't I blame it on the fact that You Know's answer was so brief, I didn't even SEE it? Nahhhh, he gets off on this one; I erred all on my own.

I sincerely apologize, and remain...

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SJ