Never may that happen, dear JW (peace!) - I am YOUR servant!
Peace!
A doulos of Christ,
SA, who apologizes for the long response, but it WAS a pretty lengthy commentary to begin with, so much to respond TO...
Posts by AGuest
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169The "Tree of Life and its meaning"
by EdenOne inhi all.. just letting know that i've published a new article on my website, titled "the tree of life and its meaning".. you're welcome to visit, read and discuss it.. eden.
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61
Why WTBTS Disfellowshipping Works...
by AGuest into the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!.
i just wanted to share with you, briefly, what i have come to understand as to why disfellowshipping by the wtbts works... why it can continue being fomented as it is.
i realize there are pages and pages of studies regarding cults and cult mindsets, etc., but i am not going to inundate you with such but rather try to keep this simple.
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AGuest
This is a classic example of why I have utter contempt for you.
And I should care that you do because... ?
How do you come to this conclusion?
The answer was provided, dear tec (peace to you!):
Outsiders have commented on it.
Which appears to be being done now.
A doulos of Christ,
SA, who wonders if some folks are that blind to their own fears and biases which, to those they apparently fear, are quite telling...
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169
The "Tree of Life and its meaning"
by EdenOne inhi all.. just letting know that i've published a new article on my website, titled "the tree of life and its meaning".. you're welcome to visit, read and discuss it.. eden.
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AGuest
Yes, INDEED, dear JW! VERY good, praise JAH!
Peace!
A doulos of Christ,
SA
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169
The "Tree of Life and its meaning"
by EdenOne inhi all.. just letting know that i've published a new article on my website, titled "the tree of life and its meaning".. you're welcome to visit, read and discuss it.. eden.
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AGuest
AGuest (Shelby?), thank you for your challenge.
Good morning, dear EO, and again, peace to you! Since your OP does invite discussion, sure, let's continue. Please know that my post wasn't a challenge, though - I simply shared the truth with you. I most probably should have just refuted your article (which I will do in a minute), but I was directed to try the "easier" (for you) route, first.
Naturally, I disagree with you.
Naturally, but it isn't me you've disagreed with. I mean, I didn't make the verses up, nor designate who that Tree truly is. I just shared the information, whether you can receive it or not. You have a choice, always, so all I can do it put it out there. It's up to YOU as to what to do with it: receive or reject. No worries at ALL from ME as to your choice.
While Jesus is most definetively involved in the "reward" for the believers, the trees in Eden weren't metaphorical, although they were of a symbolic significance.
They are indeed, metaphorical, as well as symbolic, as well as literal, dear one. The metaphor is that we must eat from a "tree" in order to live... forever. That's why Adham/Eve were blocked from getting back to that "Tree." The symbolism is my Lord AS a Tree... a vine/root... which is holy... and thus its branches, Israel and the nations... being holy, as well. It is literal... because he IS that Tree: it is only by eating from him, HIS leaves (which is his flesh, the "manna" from heaven)... that one can be cured... in body AND spirit... so as TO live forever. Truly, there is NO other Way. (John 6:51-53).
As I'm sure it didn't escape your analisys, the conclusions I drew are quite a departure from the current teachings of the WTS, because I'm upholding the notion of a heavenly reward for ALL Christians - something that was discarded by the WTS in 1935
Yes, but that is merely a current departure - just as they left it, they will return to it at some point. You simply went back to their pre-Rutherford teachings, which they will, too. They'll need to, because as folks start waking up they're going to see that the current divisive two hope theory is false. Eventually, ALL will wake and see the need to partake; unfortunately, it will be too late for those "foolish" virgins...
- and at the same time, harmonizing it with the notion of a future paradise on earth that will be inhabited forever by righteous humans.
Which is true, yes. However, that doesn't negate your error as to what... rather, WHO... the Tree of Life is.
And where do you read that I claim to have been "anointed"?
I didn't read you claiming such, dear one. You imply it... by implying you "know." I mean, HOW do you know... how CAN you... WITHOUT having received the promised holy spirit, that which leads into ALL truth? If you want us to believe what you shared is the TRUTH... then you certainly must also want us to believe you received it FROM the Truth... and by means of the SPIRIT of truth? Yes? Which is the anointing, that receipt of holy spirit, the spirit of truth. Otherwise, you have no choice but to assume you a FALSE "christ" (anointed), yes?
But I did not go there. Rather, I approached you as to "expound the way of God more accurately" TO you... as dear Priscilla and Aquila did to Apollos, a man "aglow with the spirit," yet not having all of his facts straight.
But so that you don't think I didn't fully read your commentary, let's take a look. You have a lot to share, so there's a lot to comment on. Which is why this is the "harder" way, but:
In the Garden of Eden, Jehovah God employed two trees for symbolic purposes. They were the “tree of the knowledge of good and bad” and the “tree of life” – Genesis 2:9, 16, 17; 3:1-24
The truth is that the purposes were metaphoric, symbolic, and literal. But I can go with this for now because I will explain the others in a bit.
The “tree of the knowledge of good and bad” was a symbol of God’s exclusive right to determine, or set the standards of what is “good” (approved by God), and what is “bad” (condemned by God). It was therefore a passive test of man’s respect for the unique position of his Creator and his willingness to remain within the moral boundaries that God has set for man.
This is an error... and a WTBTS teaching (as well as that of some other religions). Just like the Tree of Life, from which Adham/Eve COULD and DID eat (Genesis 1:29; 3:1-3), they WOULD have been able to eat from this tree as well, at some point. They simply were not “ready” to do so. How do we know this? Because, once in the flesh, Christ ate from that tree. To know this, one has to understand what THAT tree was. I don’t think you do.
These boundaries would by no means be intolerable restrictions imposed on man’s freedom, in the sense that they would not undercut the optimum enjoyment of life by the human beings; However, breaching these boundaries would constitute a revolt against God’s domain and authority over his Creation.
No, sorry. And this is another WTBTS teaching.
To deliberatedly approach this tree and eat from its fruit against Jehovah’s explicit orders, and despite a clear forewarning of its lethal consequences was therefore a symbolic act of rebellion against God’s sovereignity.
Another error... and WTBTS teaching. So, let’s now discuss what that tree was, what it represented, why Adham/Eve even wanted to eat from it... and why they were told not to:
The Tree was a means by which man could know good... life... AND bad... death. They already knew good (life)... but they didn’t know bad (they had never died). What was held out to them was two things:
1. Having their eyes opened; and
2. Eating... but not dying.
Why was this important to them? Because (1) they wanted to know ALL truth; and (2) they wanted to be able to “know” death... and yet live. These were the ONLY ways in which they were NOT “like” God – in all OTHER ways they had been created in His image and so WERE “like” Him. But they didn’t know all truth (have their eyes “opened”) and they didn’t have a knowledge of death... KNOW it... while yet living. God, however, did.
What God KNEW, however, is that their flesh had not yet been brought to the point were (1) it could “bear” all truth (including the truth of death), and (2) taste death and yet live. He KNEW that if they ate from the tree what they would SEE would be unbearable for them (and it was, which is why they hid) AND that they would remain dead (NOT know death AND still live). So, out of LOVE for them, He warned them NOT to eat of that tree.
Unfortunately, Eve couldn’t keep her desire for the fruit of that tree hidden from one who intended to exploit that desire... entice it out and bring birth to her sin. And so, she was deceived by that one into doing just that, having her desire drawn out so that she sinned. Her sin wasn’t disobedience, though – it was coveted and taking something THAT DID NOT BELONG TO HER:
1. Fruit of a tree that wasn’t hers to take from; and
2. The RIGHT to live... although having died.
Both belonged to someone else: JAH Himself... and the one whom He had given authority TO... the entity known as Death/Destruction/The Destroyer/Abaddon/Apollyon. The first always had authority; the latter was given authority... by the One who had authority over HIM: the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies.
Adham, though, proved even worse: not only did he take something that didn’t belong to him, but he:
1. Did so knowingly and purposefully, because
2. To he wanted the AUTHORITY of that one (Death), to eat and know bad, yet LIVE; and so
3. He sold his own flesh... his wife and progeny... in exchange for that “authority.”
Unlike the “last Adham,” who gave HIS life on behalf of his “wife”, the Body of Christ, Adham first threw his wife, the one who was of HIS body... under the bus. Having not yet sinned, HE could have asked for forgiveness for HER... as Christ, who was without sin, asks forgiveness for those of HIS Bride. Even better, he could have shown his LOVE for her... by doing what Christ did for HIS Bride: give HIMSELF. At ANY time Adham could have said, “Take me to pay for this error, not her.” But... his selfishness prevailed. Instead, he first blamed her, then blamed God for giving her (that defective unit!) TO him.
Never did he take any responsibility for his OWN action. Which has been a trait of his progeny, and particularly Israel, EVER since.
But it was worse becausenot only did he throw his own flesh (his wife) under the bus, showing that he did NOT love her as he loved is own body (UNLIKE Christ... who loves his Body as he loves his OWN flesh)... but he had already SOLD their children TO Death... in exchange for the AUTHORITY (over death) that he wanted! You see, in order for Death to give Adham the authority to die... but not STAY dead... Death wanted something IN RETURN: life. Adham wanted the KEYS... “to death and Hades”. Well, those keys weren’t just for free: they came with a PRICE... that Adham was willing to give – his progeny. And so, he SOLD us (his progeny) TO Death... in exchange for the KEYS... TO death/Hades – the World of the Dead.
Unfortunately, although he had been promised dominion over death and the World of the Dead, the entity called Death/Destruction/the Destroyer, etc., didn’t have authority over the KEYS to that realm – only the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, did. And so, He was able to usurp Death’s agreement with Adham! Which is why Adham, who was NOT deceived... DID die... and has stayed dead!
Those keys, however, WERE ultimately given to someone else, Adham’s brother: the OTHER Son of God, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the CHOSEN One (to RECEIVE those keys) of JAH – MischaJah. They were GIVEN to him... because he didn’t try to STEAL them... or sell out his own flesh to OBTAIN them. And as a result, althought THAT One died... and even went to the World of the Dead/Hades... he was not KEPT there; he used the “keys”... to bring himself BACK. Resurrect himself FROM that place!
And once Adham ate, yes, his eyes were “opened”... but only so that he could see his OWN “nakedness”... or unsightliness (and so, had to be given a long garment of skin to COVER that “ugliness”), which he could not bear... but that was ALL he could see – from that point, he began to go “blind” (which is why his progeny is blind!). And... he became dead... so that his body began to die... a process which he could NOT stop! Nor, once he returned to the place from whence he came (the World of the Dead) could he return back to THIS world. And he is still there, yet, and will be until he is resurrected to stand judgment (“there will be a resurrection of the righteous AND the unrighteous”).
But there was another special tree in Eden – the “tree of life”. There are three mentions of this tree in the account of Genesis: “Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad”. (Genesis 2:9) An then: “And Jehovah God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,--” With that Jehovah God put him out of the garden of E′den to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E′den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.”- Genesis 3:22-24
Yes. We will get back to these verses in a bit.
It’s uncertain to us if Adam and Eve knew about the existance of such “tree of life” and its significance, and if they did, if they knew of its exact location within the Garden of Eden.
This is not true. They not only knew of the tree, and its location, but ATE of it. They could... and DID... eat of EVERY tree in the garden... EXCEPT the TKOGB. And we know they knew where it was... because what would be the point in blocking them OUT of the garden, to keep them from getting back to eat OF it... if they didn’t even know where it was? THAT Tree... the Tree of Life... was in the very center of the garden... as it has always been.
While Jehovah revealed to them the existance and the precise identification of the “tree of the knowledge of good and bad”, the Scriptures don’t mention that Jehovah has done the same regarding the “tree of life”. (Genesis 2:16, 17)
Not true; they knew where both trees were located: in close proximity to one another... as they still are now.
After they have sinned, Jehovah’s immediate action was to eject the first human couple from Eden so that they would not gain access to the “tree of life”.
Not true. First, He questioned them. He did this to give them time to come clean... CONFESS their error and ASK FORGIVENESS. NEITHER did this, though. Both blamed someone else: Eve, the seraph that had enticed her (“the serpent, it deceived me”)... and Adham, Eve AND God Himself (“the woman YOU gave me, SHE made me eat”). Neither had the INTEGRITY to take responsibility for their own error! Neither loved God enough to not have eaten in the first place or to at least put faith in His MERCY. And Adham certainly didn’t love Eve – he was MORE than willing to let her take the fall.
He even placed two cherubs and a revolving sword to guard the access to the tree and ensure that humans would not access it, whether accidentally or purposedly. - Genesis 3:22-24
Okay, that really is from the WTBTS... and perhaps your own thinking... and it TOTALLY false: accidentally OR purposedly?? They knew where EVERY tree was in that garden. EVERY tree. And they ate from EVERY tree... even the TKOGB, eventually.
We should pay attention to the fact that the first time that the Sciptures mention life to time indefinite is in connection with the “tree of life”.
Not true. It is IMPLIED... in the words that they would die if they ate from ANOTHER tree. If eating from that other tree is the ONLY way they would die... then it is implied that they would NOT die... and thus live... FOREVER... if they DIDN’T eat from it. Simple logic/math, dear one.
Jehovah said: “(…) in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite (…)”. We learn here that eating from the fruit of the “tree of life” would have as consequence the acquisition of life without end. Since Adam and Eve incurred in sin and suffered death as a consequence of their disobedience by eating from the fruit of the “tree of the knowledge of good and bad”, they were no longer elegible for eating the fruit of the “tree of life” and consequently, for enjoying ‘life for time indefinite’
OKAY! Some TRUTH! Which is why Christ... IS THAT TREE:
“I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
“Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my fleshand drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. T his is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” John 6:48-58
When Adham “ate” from the Tree of Knowledge of Good (life) and Bad (death)... he literally chose another “father” – Death. And thus, by means of this, that one, Death... entered into THIS world... THROUGH Adham. Coming THROUGH him... TO his children... and through THEM... to THEIR children... and so on and so on. And because Adham’s progeny was the PRICE he had paid TO Death for that authority (to die, yet live)... WE BELONG TO DEATH. But... praise JAH... there is One who gave HIS life... TO BUY US BACK... FROM Death. Redeem/repurchase/pay the RANSOM for... us!
This seems to indicate that Adam and Eve weren’t created with the innate quality of living ”for time indefinite”. That quality was to be acquired by eating the fruit of the “tree of life”.
This only party true: they did indeed have that quality, innately... because they didn’t have death IN them; but it was... and is sustained... by eating from the Tree of Life. Even without sin and death IN them, and without Death even having entered into this world... and so no means TO die (and so able to live forever), they had to eat from the Tree of Life. Because even spirit beings (angels) have to eat from him (Psalm 78:25).
That’s why THEY are “immortal” – because of the “life” THEY consume by eating FROM the Life... the Tree OF Life. Thus, they not only don’t die... but must be destroyed – because of the LIFE that is in him, that tree, in THEM! However, those spirit being (angels) who have ALSO been cut off (being bound in “Tartarus” or hurled out of the spirit realm and prevented from reentering) can be DESTROYED... and it is this prevention from “eating” that allows them to be so weakened that they CAN be.
It was God’s privilege to grant access to that tree, and consequently, to a life “for time indefinite”. Therefore, if eating from the “tree of life” was a privilege that could be revoked based of the moral choices of the human beings, then we can conclude that Jehovah intended that eating from the “tree of life”, and therefore, the acquisition of ‘life for time indefinite’ was a reward for humans who would chose to continuously respect God’s sovereignity and thus remain within God’s moral boundaries
Truth; however, it wasn’t a reward THEN – then, it was a RIGHT... because there was no DEATH (in them/this world). So for them to die would have been unrighteous – there was nothing that warranted it. NOW, though, that is not the case. And so, NOW... it is a GIFT (and not a reward – a reward denotes deservingness – NONE are worthy and thus it is due to UNdeserved kindness and MERCY... which is why it IS a gift. We can do NOTHING to “earn” it, none of us.
We belong to another, Death, whom Adham sold us TO... unless we “sell” OURSELVES... to the One who PAID THE PRICE... TO Death... for any who wish to be released from that one (Death). Since Christ has the KEYS... to death and Hades... he CAN release any he wishes. But he does so... as a GIFT... because of his... and God’s... LOVE.
King Solomon was inspired to write about Jehovah: “Everything he has made pretty in its time. Even time indefinite he has put in their heart (…)” (Ecclesiastes 3:11) Indeed God has created mankind with the innate desire to keep on living endlessly; But to actually acquire that quality it would require God’s permission to eat from the fruit of the “tree of life”.
And this is how we know it WAS innate: it was IN them, the beings God created, from the start!
At what point would Jehovah allow Adam and Eve, if they remained faithful to him, to eat from the “tree of life”?
They had always eaten from it, dear one. Always. There was only ONE tree from which they couldn’t eat. And, again, they eventually ate from that one, too. To their own detriment... and ours.
At this point, it is beneficial to consider what were the consequences of sin for mankind. As Jehovah had forewarned, after unauthorizedly eating from the “tree of the knowledge of good and bad”, Adam and Eve were subject to sin and death. (Genesis 3:19)
Partially true: the result was not because they had eaten unauthorizedly... because Adham HAD authorization. It is because that was the consequence of eating from THAT tree: knowing (intimately as in experiencing) death. He didn’t tell them that they would be PUNISHED... because that is not was meant. He WARNED them... because He didn’t WANT them to die. God “does not want ANY to die!”
However, in order to ensure the fulfillment of his purpose, Jehovah allowed the first couple to breed offsprings. Eventually, Adam lived up to 930 years, but, true to God’s word, he and Eve died and ‘returned to the ground’. This was the most serious consequence of sin: death.
Dear one, Adham and Eve died... from the moment they ate. Because f rom the MOMENT they ate... death came to be IN them. And death... is the ABSENCE of life. And so, they no longer had life “within themselves”... and so WERE dead. Their BODIES just hadn’t wound down and returned to the dust, yet.
As the apostle Paul wrote: “(…) through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned”. (Romans 5:12) But death wasn’t the only consequence of sin. The Scriptures also connect aging and illness with inherited sin. (Ecclesiasts 12:1-7; John 9:1-3; Mark 2:5-12) Pain, anxiety, tyranny, hate, crime and difficulties in obtaining normal livelihood are also mentioned as direct consequences of sin. - Genesis 3:16-19; 4:6-8
Those aren’t merely the consequences of sin, dear one. Those ARE sin... and death. Unlike the false teachings of many, including the WTBTS, sin is not just an ACT – sin... is the PRESENCE OF CORRUPTION... IN THE FLESH. They now had sin IN them, in the vessels they occupied... which vessel they could not escape from. It would die... and take them with it to the World OF the Dead (the dust from which they were brought forth)... and there was nothing they could about it... except eat from the Tree (of Life)... which would GRANT them life and so reverse the process. As he (that Tree) does for those who eat from him NOW. While the FLESH of such ones might die and return to the dust... the SPIRITS of such ones LIVE. They just “sleep”... under the altar.
Before they have sinned, Adam and Eve were free from the consequences of sin. Obviously, they were also free from death.
And thus, eternal life was innately IN them!
But if they weren’t allowed to acquire ‘life for time indefinite’ by eating from the “tree of life”, then for how long were they to live, since they were perfect? And how would that be accomplished?
I am not sure what you’re asking here – indeed, it doesn’t sound like you are, either. They were already eating... and living eternally. Once they ate of DEATH’s tree, though... they became dead – no life IN them. And so their flesh started to die. Since death brings corruption, they were no longer ‘perfect.’ But not because they were dying – they lost perfection... when they showed that they didn’t love GOD (enough to heed His warning!)... and one another (Eve, by having Adham also eat and Adham by throwing Eve under the bus). Perfection... is perfect LOVE. Neither of these showed they possessed that.
Remember that Jehovah gave the first couple a mission. The account of Genesis tells us that: ”Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of E′den to cultivate it and to take care of it.” Also, the first couple received the following instructions: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth”. – Genesis 2:15; 3:28
This is one of the (very) few accurate things you’ve stated...
In order to generate human offspring to “fill the earth”, cultivate the Garden of Eden and subdue the animals, Adam and Eve should continue living on earth for a considerable amount of time, but Jehovah never told them that they, as individuals, would live forever on earth. Jehovah would continue to support indefinitely their lives until their mission on earth was accomplished. Only then they would be allowed to eat from the fruit of the “tree of life”, that is, acquiring ‘life for time indefinite’.
First, their mission on earth would have NEVER changed: God created the earth FOR man. Second, they were always eating from that Tree of Life. They were NEVER restricted from that tree, prior to eating from the other.
What would then happen to Adam and Eve once they had successfully accomplished their mission on earth and were allowed to eat from the fruit of the “tree of life”? To find the answer we must turn to the last book of the inspired Scriptures, the book of Revelation.
Okay, let’s do that...
In Revelation 2:7 we read the following promise of Jesus to his followers: “To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’” Here we are looking into the future, not into the past. The “tree of life” isn’t the same original, physical tree that was on the Garden of Eden.
This is an error – it absolutely IS the same tree! The VERY same tree... because there was, is, and only ever will be ONE such tree!
But the symbolic meaning of the “tree of life” remains: Eating from its fuit is a reward to the faithful ones, and signifies the acquisition of ‘life for time indefinite’.
Another error – a reward denotes earned/deserved. Eternal life... is a GIFT – NO ONE can earn it... and only One showed himself to DESERVE it. And he gave HIS life so that all who exercise faith in HIM... that he can GRANT such life to OTHERS... can receive it FROM him .
The passage in Revelation mentions that this “tree of life” is in the “paradise of God”. So this must be where the reward of ‘life for indefinite time’ is awarded. Where is this paradise? Is it an earthly paradise? Or is it a heavenly paradise?
It is BOTH, dear one... just as it was then: heaven ON earth. When the things in the heavens (spirit realm) and the things on earth (the physical realm)... are brought together AGAIN. Just as it was with the GARDEN: Adham was created OUTSIDE the garden, in the physical realm... and then placed IN the garden (the spirit realm). And, until he was prevented, could go and in out between BOTH... as he WISHED (Genesis 28:12; John 10:9).
It is when New Jerusalem “comes down OUT of heaven”... and is established ON THE EARTH (“Your kingdom COME... and your will be done... ON EARTH... as in the heavens”). Which is how Gog and Magog are able to think they can even come AGAINST that Holy City: because she is established HERE. Because God did not create the earth to NOT be inhabited!
Note that this promise is made to the Christians of the congregation of Ephesus. Having been anointed and being parttakers of the Lord’s Evening Meal, they shared in a heavenly hope. (Hebrews 3:1, 14) The promise made to them is included in the first of seven special messages that Jesus has directed to seven congregations in the district of Asia, included in the book of Revelation. What sort of promises Jesus made to those Christians who would remain faithful?
The hope is not solely heavenly, dear one. The heaven part is just the FIRST part. These do go to the spirit realm... to be “married” to their husbandly owner, Christ. There, a process takes place whereby they literally become ONE spirit (as a man and woman become one FLESH!). They become flesh of HIS flesh... and bone of HIS bone (rather than flesh and bone of Adham). They are given “white” robes, then, SPIRIT BODIES... like HIS... so that like HIM... they, too, can “go in and out” between the two realms – spirit and physical.
“To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’” (2:7); “Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life; He that conquers will by no means be harmed by the second death.’” (2:10, 11); “To him that conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white pebble, and upon the pebble a new name written which no one knows except the one receiving it.’” (2:17); “And to him that conquers and observes my deeds down to the end I will give authority over the nations, and he shall shepherd the people with an iron rod so that they will be broken to pieces like clay vessels, the same as I have received from my Father, and I will give him the morning star” (2:25-28); “He that conquers will thus be arrayed in white outer garments; and I will by no means blot out his name from the book of life, but I will make acknowledgment of his name before my Father and before his angels” (3:5); “The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine.” (3:12); If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into his [house] and take the evening meal with him and he with me. To the one that conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, even as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne”. (3:20, 21).
I am not going to go into every aspect of these verses because your use of it shows that you also don’t understand what that paradise is. It will say that it will be the same in the future as it was in the past: a “garden”... “planted” by God, a Cultivator (John 15:1)... that is a “place” He loves: “Jerusalem”. Only this will be the NEW “Jerusalem”... and in her midst will once again be His Beloved Tree. She is His “temple,” and Beloved “City”... and she is made up of people:
· Christ, the Tree of Life... who is the “Cornerstone”
· The Apostles and Prophets... who are the “Foundation”
· The Apostles... who are the “Gates”
· The Apostles, Prophets, and others... who are the “Pillars”
· And all others of Christ’s Body... who are “Living Stones”
SHE is the “Beloved City”... in her midst of which is a “garden”... in the midst of which is the “Tree (of Life)”... from all IN her “eat.” It is the very thing, this tree and eating from it, that Satan misleads Magog (spirits cut off) and Gog (goats cut off) into thinking they can access. Which is WHY these "come against" that Holy City: to attempt to gain access and get to that Tree! But JAH does not allow it!
We can see clearly that ‘eating from the tree of life’ in the “paradise of God” is part of a broad reward, which includes things such as becoming part of the New Jerusalem, or sit with Jesus in his throne. Where do all these things take place? Clearly not on earth! Instead, they take place in the spiritual realm, in the heavens. - Matthew 19:28, Revelation 21:1-3
This is an error. New Jerusalem “comes down OUT of heaven, as a Bride adorned for her husband,” does she not? She does this, because her co-rule with Christ... is UPON the earth; not “over” it. You have ascribed to another erroneous WTBTS teaching, however, by forgetting where New Jerusalem ultimately IS.
Indeed, the acquisition of ‘life for time indefinite’ – is part of a heavenly reward. Adam and Eve would have been rewarded with that heavenly reward if they would sucessfully accomplished their God-given mission on earth.
And you ascribe to yet another WTBTS error: that of “rewards”. They push this very erroneous teaching through their own false doctrines. For example, field service. They push a belief that the more hours one puts in the more “spiritual” one is. That low hours means “poorer spirituality.” And that one can receive a reward for their work. Yes, James did say that “faith without works is dead,” but these are the kinds of works he was speaking of. HE was speaking of faith that says it is love... yet, not showing love. Can you truly say you have faith in Christ... and not do as he would have done to those in need?
They, however, and unfortunately you, by your constant referral to a “reward,” entirely miss that life is NOT a reward... but a GIFT. You CANNOT earn it, you DON’T deserve it. It is GIVEN... due to God’s MERCY. Because the wage of sin is DEATH... and we have ALL sinned. So none of us, not ONE of us... can REDEEEM ourselves. We cannot UNDO our sins. We can only try to get them covered over/blotted out/washed. And there is only ONE way to do that: the blood of Christ.
But his blood does not cover/blot out/wash away our sins because we DESERVE it to. Or because we’ve done some “works”... or put in great amounts of field service hours, etc. It covers... WHEN it covers... because of HIS love... for US... and his GIFT of LETTING it, when he does. Nothing more. At all.
But don’t we read in the Scriptures that 1 Corinthians 15:50“flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom”? Didn’t Jesus say: “unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God”? If that’s the case, how could the perfect Adam and Eve receive a heavenly reward if they weren’t going to die, and therefore, be released from their material bodies? (1 Corinthians 15:50; John 3:3) The simple answer is: They wouldn’t have to die in order to receive their heavenly reward. The apostle Paul, speaking by inspiration about the future, wrote: “Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality”. – 1 Corinthians 15:51-53
YES! But Adham tried to TAKE that potential... rather than wait for his body to be “prepared”... by GOD. Christ, however, allowed GOD to change him:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire - but my ears you have opened; you have prepared a body for me...” Psalm 40:6 (LXX)
Paul describes a future time, the time of the blowing of the “last trumpet”, when the dead would be rised to a spiritual life my means of a resurrection; And the ones still living would be rised to a spiritual life by means of an instantaneous change where the material body is disposed of and life is transferred to a spiritual body. Just as Jehovah miraculously transferred Jesu’s life from a spiritual body into a material body, upon his conception, the reverse process will take place. No death is involved, simply a change, a transition. Pretty much the inverse process that resulted in Jesus' spiritual life being transferred into a human fleshy form. That was exactly what was to happen to Adam and Eve, and by extension, to all of his descendants, if they have remained perfect.
YES! They would have been a “white robe”... a FULLY spirit body, that does not and cannot have sin and death IN it. Which they already partially had (which is why they COULD go into the garden). But they did not have such FULLY... yet. Why? Because that had not yet been fully TAUGHT how to exist in such bodies – they did not, obviously, yet know how to CHOOSE... the GOOD (life)... and REJECT... the BAD (death), as Christ did (because he allowed himself the time to be TAUGHT):
“Listen, please, O house of David. Is it such a little thing for ? YOU ? to tire out men, that ? YOU ? should also tire out my God? Therefore JaHVeH Himself will give ? YOU ? men a sign : Look! The maiden herself will actually become pregnant, and she is giving birth to a son, and she will certainly call his name Imman′uel. Butter and honey he will eat by the time that he knows how to reject the bad and choose the good . For before the boy will know how to reject the bad and choose the good, the ground of whose two kings you are feeling a sickening dread will be left entirely. ” Isaiah 7:13-16
Christ allowed JAH to tell Him when he was ready to know (life) good AND bad (death) and didn’t take that knowledge for himself... or “deal” with Death (Luke 4:9-12) to obtain it. He, then CHOSE life (good) and REJECTED death (bad). Which is what was held out to Israel (and still is):
“This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you thatI have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love JaHVeH your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For JaHVeH is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” Deuteronomy 30:19, 20
It is what is before us NOW: life (“ I am the... Life ” – John 14:6)... or death (“ Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man AND drink his blood, you have NO life within yourselves !” John 6:53)
In the future, when Jehovah’s purpose is accomplished, namely, “to gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth”, perfectly faithful humans living very long, fruitful and healthy lives in an restored and healed earth, once having accomplished their mission on earth, will be extended the privilege of eating from the “tree of life” and be instantly changed and elevated for an immortal life in the spiritual realm to become “sons of God” in the superlative sense. – Ephesians 1:10
Oh, no, dear one, no, no, no: that gift is extended long, long before then. It is being extended NOW... and will be when New Jerusalem is established in the physical realm “on earth”... and will exist for time indefinite afterward.
Hence, we are being invited to eat... and DRINK... NOW. May you be granted ears to hear and get the sense of these truths I have shared with you... as well as when that invitation is made... by the Spirit and His Bride to YOU, to:
“Come! Take ‘life’s water’... the holy spirit of God, the MOST Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who is JAHVEH... which water issues forth from the INNERMOST parts of His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... as a river from HIS throne... he, the TREE OF LIFE... whose leaves... flesh... is for the “curing” of the nations... AND Israel... so that ALL may eat... and live... to time indefinite, even if their flesh should die... FREE!” Revelation 22:17
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with, and a doulos of Christ,
SA
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191
Have You Prepared For The "Flu" And Do You Get A Flu Shot?
by minimus ini try to keep my hands clean regularly and stay away from areas and people that i know are sick.. i have never gotten a flu shot and i do know that many that do get one, get the flu anyway.. still, the flu is considered very very bad this year..
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AGuest
While the discussion is about the flu shot specifically, it seems to also be about the reliability... of the medical field's assertion of realiability... which is what I spoke to. That I included information of a personal nature to support my comments is on-topic: I spoke from what I KNOW... PERSONALLY... and not what I read/believe based on what someone else asserts.
Be that as it may, again, the decision is simple: if you get a flu shot you just may get sick. VERY sick. If you don't, you may get sicker, even die. Thankfully, all have a choice and can make a decision. Just make a FULLY INFORMED decision, which includes hearing BOTH sides... and neither side poo-poo'ing... or trying to bully... the other. Bullies tend to do so because they're hiding something: insecurity, uncertainty, etc., although they want to appear self-assured and "knowledgable."
Put your thoughts out there... and don't take it PERSONAL if you're not believed. If you're right... then it's those who don't listen's loss. If they do, then it's their gain... and yours.
But leave your personal insecurities about NEEDING people to agree with you/see things YOUR way... such that when they don't you get all cranky and bent out of shape and start hurtling absolutely false and unintended motives... at home. Or at the Kingdom Hall, where it's practiced and welcomed.
A slave of Christ,
SA
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191
Have You Prepared For The "Flu" And Do You Get A Flu Shot?
by minimus ini try to keep my hands clean regularly and stay away from areas and people that i know are sick.. i have never gotten a flu shot and i do know that many that do get one, get the flu anyway.. still, the flu is considered very very bad this year..
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AGuest
Severe skin (eczema) and nasal allergies (leading to chronic sinus infections), dear JeffT (peace!). From the time I was an infant. I grew up with frequent nosebleeds (requiring 2am trips to the ER for carterization) and blood infections (due to scratching). What teen girl wants nosebleeds and "alligator" skin? I couldn't go higher than the 20th floor in a building and couldn't swim in some pools. So, I started in my late teens.
And then I started having "weird" symptoms in my early 20's, after about 5-6 years. But every time I said I thought it was the steroids (because I wasn't taking anything else, not even aspirin), I was told that they didn't "cause" the things I was complaining about (although it was almost everything on the short list). But I was a young woman - surely, it was "all in my head." As time progressed and my symptoms got weirder, I asked to be taken off or have them changed to non-steroidal treatment. But I was told "No, they don't cause that" or "Sorry, we don't have anything non-steroidal that is strong enough for your condition or "No, you can't just stop" (and that is TRUE! I "kicked" cold turkey, which also screwed things up... I can't even describe the pain and withdrawals - 3 years of it! I would NEVER do that again!).
So they would just change me to another steroid, or change my dose. But I would have withdrawals (your organs either start shutting down or atrophying), so they would up it again. I realized after I was off that they simply didn't know what they were doing - they really hadn't been educated as to what CORTICOsteroids do. They only knew as to ANABOLIC steroids.
I started getting really scared when Lyle Alzedo developed brain cancer that he claimed was brought on by (anabolic) steriods... and more when he died. What finally convinced me to quit, I don't care what nobody says! was finding out what Barry Bonds was using - it was VERY similar to what I had been on for years. I still couldn't find a doctor willing to "wean" me, though, so I decided to just quit. Disclaimer: if you're on streroids... don't just quit. FIND someone to help you - you could do irreparable damage, even beyond what being ON them does, perhaps even die (heart attack, stroke, renal failure, etc.).
So there you go. Folks'll just have to bear with me if I'm not "all in" with the medical field. Or... science. I'm in... just not all in.
Peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA
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169
The "Tree of Life and its meaning"
by EdenOne inhi all.. just letting know that i've published a new article on my website, titled "the tree of life and its meaning".. you're welcome to visit, read and discuss it.. eden.
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AGuest
Greetings, dear EO, and peace to you! I read your well-written article; unfortunately, though, I have to disagree with it and share with you that (1) it's really not that complicated, and (2) it's really not an "it"... but a "he":
"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" (John 14:6)
"I am the True Vine" (John 15:1)
"I am the vine... you are the branches" (John 15:5)
"if the root is holy, so are the branches" (Romans 11:16)
"You do not support the root, but the root supports you" (Romans 11:18)
"In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples ; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious." ( Isaiah 11:10 )
"The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations ; in him the Gentiles will hope.” ( Romans 15:12 )
"A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit." ( Isaiah 11:1 )
"Hear, I pray thee, Joshua, the high priest, Thou and thy companions sitting before thee, (For men of type [are] they,) For lo, I am bringing in Myservant -- a Shoot ." ( Zechariah 3:8 )
"Then he showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations ." ( Revelation 22:1, 2
"Whoever feeds on my flesh (John 6:54) and drinks my blood has eternal life..."
Christ, the Root of Jesse, True Vine, Sprout/Shoot!... and Life... is the Tree of Life, dear one. And it eating of HIM... HIS "leaves"... which is his flesh... that we are "cured"... of sin and death... so as to live... forever.
Seriously. While the term "tree" is metaphorical and symbolic... he IS real.
I hope this helps... and am very sorry you had to spend so much time on your article (which doesn't accurately explain the "meaning" of the "tree" that is my Lord... but you're not the first to have tried nor will you be the last). Some advice, if I may? Don't lean upon your own understanding. Don't try to "figure" these things out based on what you think you "know" and certainly not based on ANYTHING you've learned about it from the WTBTS, as they SURELY have no clue whatsoEVER! None, at ALL! Rather, seek... so as to find that One... and then ask for some of the "water" from that "river" that issues forth from him: the "water" of "life"... holy spirit.
Because it is through that spirit, and by means of him, Christ, the Tree of Life and the one who grants it... that you can be led into ALL truth, including the truth about him. 1 John 2:26-28 I realize that you may believe you have already received that spirit and it's "anointing," but I would offer that perhaps you may have only just heard the CALL of the One who grants it. Because it is the spirit of TRUTH... and, unfortunately, what you've published is NOT the truth about the Tree of Life, not even close. I have no doubt that your intent was sincere, but its results are inaccurate. Perhaps you will use that sincerity, then, to try again... but this time, allow HIM, the Truth, to tell you... rather than publish a speculation.
People's eternal lives are at stake, dear one. We can't afford to further mislead them. We shouldn't mislead them anyway. Love dictates that we don't... that we put THEIR interest, and thus the interest of truth, and thus the interest of THE Truth, and thus the interest of Christ, and thus the interest of GOD... before our own interests. Yes?
I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!
YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with... and a slave of Christ,
SA
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61
Why WTBTS Disfellowshipping Works...
by AGuest into the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!.
i just wanted to share with you, briefly, what i have come to understand as to why disfellowshipping by the wtbts works... why it can continue being fomented as it is.
i realize there are pages and pages of studies regarding cults and cult mindsets, etc., but i am not going to inundate you with such but rather try to keep this simple.
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AGuest
If you did not want to be disfellowshipped, people should not become JWs.
Bullock pucky. It's not like they have some "join at your own risk (of being disfellowshipped if you disagree)" disclaimer. I didn't even know of disfellowshipping until I had been in a few years. No one I knew of was disfellowshipped and so it never came up. I heard it whispered about (because I was a new young black "sister" in a hall where, apparently, all of the other black "sisters" had been disfellowshipped at one point or another - all three for either dating, marrying, or being unmarried and having children by "unbelievers"). I couldn't figure out why some treated me as they did (I had not experienced it before moving to that congregation due to relocating). Found out, some were actually hedging bets as to how long before I committed some "sin" (adultery?) to warrant DF'ing. It was almost expected.
Even so, UNTIL then MY "study" always consisted of being told about the "love among brothers," and how "merciful" (Jehovah) was. My understanding was the DF'ing was the end of all attempts to "help" someone and that such one didn't "want" help... but had CHOSEN to not "love" (Jehovah) any longer... and so CHOSE to be DF'd. Of course, I had began to figure out THAT lie before it happened to ME... but I still gave those yahoos the benefit of the doubt, that perhaps they knew something I didn't.
They didn't. Most of them were/are quite happy to "expel" someone from their synagogue...
A slave of Christ,
SA
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191
Have You Prepared For The "Flu" And Do You Get A Flu Shot?
by minimus ini try to keep my hands clean regularly and stay away from areas and people that i know are sick.. i have never gotten a flu shot and i do know that many that do get one, get the flu anyway.. still, the flu is considered very very bad this year..
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AGuest
For all we know you're making all that stuff up.
That's why I posted the links, dear BB (peace!)... so's you'd know I wasn't making it up. Most here who know "of" me know I'm a Type 1 diabetic... and that I had to have major surgery two years ago this coming February. What they may not have known is why. Do I trust doctors/the medical field? Yes... and no. I HAVE to trust them... to control my condition. But trusting them is what caused it, so... I have to "weigh" what I'm told now. And I got THAT from others in the medical field.
Wanna know how things really work in an industry? Ask those in the industry. But not someone who's trying to impress you with their knowledge of it ("Ooh, I have THIS credential, so I'm...!") but one who says, "Look, here's the real skinny: the good, the bad, and the ugly. I.e., the truth. There's a LOT of good... and some not-so-good." Because you need to know both... so that you can make a TRULY informed decision.
So long as doctors receive kickbacks for the drugs they push (and they DO receive kickbacks; THAT'S been shown to death!)... you're only going to hear what the pharmaceutical companies (and, unfortunately, doctors) WANT you to hear. Heck, why do you think you got so many senior ending up in the ER due to bad drug interactions??
S'all I'm sayin'. Given my family's issues with pancreas (my mom died of pancreatic cancer)... there is NO way I would have EVER let them put me on steroids... and certainly not for as long as they did... had someone, ANYONE, told me of the risk TO my pancreas. Sadly, no one did. I discovered it all "by accident"... AFTER I was diagnosed with diabetes (and, then, the wrong type). And even then I had doctors arguing me down... until I showed them the "comprehensive" list of side effects. Guess what? Diabetes is the FIRST side effect on that list.
Just sayin'...
Peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA
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191
Have You Prepared For The "Flu" And Do You Get A Flu Shot?
by minimus ini try to keep my hands clean regularly and stay away from areas and people that i know are sick.. i have never gotten a flu shot and i do know that many that do get one, get the flu anyway.. still, the flu is considered very very bad this year..
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AGuest
Just a little something to think about (peace to you all!). According to the manufacturers... for YEARS... corticoid steroids did not cause a whole host of problems. This was because they normally aren't taken by injection but topically. And "topical steroids don't cause..." per my doctors. And so, when I developed diabetes, of course the steroids (that I had been on for close to 24 years) were not the cause... and I was a Type II.
Here, though, is a webpage regarding just one of the steroids I was on indicating the side effects:
http://www.rxlist.com/triamcinolone-cream-drug.htm
Notice the links to "All potential side effects" and "All Potential Precautions". If you click on those, you can eventually get to this page, which states "This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur":
http://www.rxlist.com/triamcinolone-lotion-side-effects-drug-center.htm
Well, hmmm. Now, just what "other" side effects may "occur"? Well, it doesn't really say. Rather, the links keep looping back. If you pay CLOSE attention, though, you might see this:
"Our Triamcinolone Acetonide Lotion Side Effects Drug Centerprovides a comprehensive view of available drug information on the potential side effects when taking this medication."
Well, we can play the "loop the loop" game that the doctors play (because they believe the manufacturers)... OR... we can do a little research on our own (thank gawd - and God - for the Internet!). Let's try that. Let's Google "corticosteroids" and, say, "diabetes". Well, looky HERE:
Uhhhh-ohhhhh...
Here's one from the U.S. Government about inhaled corticosteroids... and "the onset of diabetes":
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20870201
Notice the very first statement under "Background":
"Systemic corticosteroids are known to increase diabetes risk..."
Let's look at another, this time from the American Diabetes Association:
http://www.americandiabetes.com/expert-advice/diabetes-health/taking-steroids-and-diabetes
Notice the question: "Q. Can taking steroids cause Diabetes or increase blood glucose levels?"
Now, notice the response:
"A: Yes, steroids-based medications, often referred to as corticosteroids, can significantly increase blood glucose levels in individuals with and without Diabetes. The higher the dose, the longer steroids are needed, and the older a person is, the greater the potential for raising blood glucose levels. If these medications are required in people with pre-existing diabetes, frequent blood glucose checks are needed and an increased dose of Diabetes medications will likely be required. Some individuals with Type 2 Diabetes will need to be placed on insulin in order to control blood glucose levels adequately. Those without Diabetes can develop steroid-induced diabetes. If the medications are needed long-term, it is essential to treat high blood glucose levels, just as a person with diabetes would be treated, in order to avoid diabetes complications."
Now, why do I bring this up? Because I am a Type 1 diabetic. WHY am I a Type 1 diabetic? Because... my dear doctors, whom I told... for YEARS... that the corticosteroids they were prescribing were "killing" me... told me that, no, corticosteroids DON'T cause diabetes... UNLESS THEY ARE INJECTED. Why did they tell me this? Because... DIABETES IS NOT LISTED IN THE INITIAL LIST OF "SIDE EFFECTS." It IS listed in that "comprehensive" list, though. But, my dear doctors didn't think they needed to read that list. And me, being the ignorant, non-medical lay person that I was, thought SURELY... THEY knew what they were talking about! Sure, my beta cells were being destroyed... but what the hey, not according to my dear doctors. No, I wasn't even a Type 1 diabetic... but a Type 2... because BY THE TIME THEY CAUGHT IT... I was in my mid-30's. Never mind I had been on steroids for about 24 years - I was over 30 and so the only kind of diabetes THOSE folks (non-juvenile) develop is Type 2.
I had to undergo MAJOR surgery two years ago, dear ones... because my doctors "knew" what they were talking about. According to them, I was a Type 2 diabetic because of the age of "onset" (meaning, when they finally figured it out). My gall bladder was destroyed, my pancreas close to it, and my kidneys quickly following. Because these very dear... but very ill-informed (because of their own choice and laziness)... didn't KNOW... that corticosteroids will absolutely destroy your beta cells... rendering you a Type 1 diabetic... because your body NO LONGER MAKES INSULIN.
Why do I tell you this? Because one of the greatest pieces of advice EVER given me with regard to medical matters is... "advocate... for yourself!" YOU know if a flu shot has made you sick. No matter what anyone else... even "they" say. Because YOU reside in that vessel. And YOU know what is "normal" and "right" for that vessel... and what is not. Am I saying blow doctors off? Nope. Not at all. They are highly trained professionals that deserve regard and respect.
They don't, however, ALWAYS deserve reverence... nor does their particular understanding or position on a matter. Science... and particularly medical science changes. Progresses. As even its supporters admit. Now, true, a flu shot may make you sick (or at least, it seems so to you)... and you just might not want to GET sick. On the other hand, not having one might get you sicker. Or worse. YOU must decide. But DON'T decide because some others are telling you what they will or will not do to your body... when you know what they WILL do.
S'all's I'm saying. When it comes to your physical health, you may need to do some research. But don't let anyone else tell you what something will/will not or does/does not do to your body. Look... it... up. And don't stop at the first level. If there's a disclaimer that indicates there is more information... LOOK FOR AND AT THAT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
Yes, pharmaceutical companies want to find cures. But that's because there's money in the drugs that cure. There's money... in ALL drugs. And regardless of ANY stated altruistic purpose/mission... the REAL purpose of a corporation is to make money... for its shareholders.
Again, peace to you!
A doulos of Christ,
SA