Well Grace you have my utmost respect and admiration . The wife and I heard your testimony (I replayed it 4-8 more times and always heard something new)and enjoyed it immensely.I received a e-mail from John, so I have to answer him back. In the meantime could you please go to your room!! I promise I'll sneak you in some dessert when the others are not looking.LOL
Invetigator74
JoinedPosts by Invetigator74
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56
I just received a LOVELy letter from Trevor
by mouthy inin answer to the one i sent him..i had sent him some christian tracts .which he admits he has little use for spiritual things ( which i can understand bless him) but he did say he wouldnt throw them away one day maybe!!!.
he said that he agreed with me that an apology is truly in order ,& wanted to take this time & the opportunity to offer an unreserved apology for his conduct on jwd,of which he is both ashamed & embarrassed to everyone there /\....he also added he wished you all a very happy christmas.. .
he added that he has not been on jwd since ....thought i would let you all know.. so any who do pray .
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I just received a LOVELy letter from Trevor
by mouthy inin answer to the one i sent him..i had sent him some christian tracts .which he admits he has little use for spiritual things ( which i can understand bless him) but he did say he wouldnt throw them away one day maybe!!!.
he said that he agreed with me that an apology is truly in order ,& wanted to take this time & the opportunity to offer an unreserved apology for his conduct on jwd,of which he is both ashamed & embarrassed to everyone there /\....he also added he wished you all a very happy christmas.. .
he added that he has not been on jwd since ....thought i would let you all know.. so any who do pray .
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Invetigator74
Hi Grace, send me a copy!! I'm Investigator74. Had a great time at WNFJ and look forward to next year! Rick
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UPDATE ON MY SISTER'S WEDDING
by zamora251978 inhey guys just an update.
she e-mailed me and said i only had permission to her ceremony.
i did not get an invite.
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Invetigator74
I like the way you think On-The-Way-Out
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Angels, Angels everywhere! (need research help)
by lovelylil injust wondering what the societies official stance is on angel decorations or figurines??.
i guess i did not pay too much attention to this when i was in the borg, probably assuming they would believe having such things in your home was either; opening it up to satan or that it is a form of idolatry.. this q came up in a conversation with my brother today because i was telling him about a new angel figurine i bought for my collection (starting collecting about 3 years ago) and he used to study with the witnesses, so he is like "isn't having those against the bible?".
he swears he was told this by the elder he studied with but cannot recollect a scripture to support this view.
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Invetigator74
Here is something of interest from QFR:
*** w80 11/1 pp. 28-30 Cherubs in Israel’s Worship—Why No Idolatry? ***Cherubs in Israel’s Worship—Why No Idolatry?
THE Ten Commandments for Israel were introduced against an awesome background of God’s power and glory when God “came down upon [Mount Sinai] in fire; and its smoke kept ascending like the smoke of a kiln, and the whole mountain was trembling very much.” On that occasion God said: “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion.” As Moses explained, the true God had come with such magnificence “in order that the fear of him may continue before your faces that you may not sin.”—Ex. 19:18; 20:4, 5, 20.
With this law against idolatry so strongly emphasized to them, some might ask why Israel was also commanded to make two golden cherubs to be mounted on the cover of the ark of the covenant within the Most Holy compartment of the tabernacle. Besides this, the entire framework of the structure was covered with linen cloths, embroidered on the inner side with colorful figures of cherubs.—Ex. 25:18; 26:1.
When this tabernacle was later replaced by Solomon’s temple, “all the walls of [the temple] round about he carved with engraved carvings of cherubs,” and “he made in the innermost room [the Most Holy] two cherubs of oil-tree wood, ten cubits being the height of each one.” Also, the doors of the temple and the sidewalls of the copper carriages for temple use were decorated with cherubs and other figures.—1 Ki. 6:29, 32, 23; 7:27-29.
Did the making of cherubs and other carved images for the temple not constitute idolatry?
Not All Images Are Idols
An idol is an image, a representation of anything or a symbol that is an object of devotion, whether material or imagined. Idolatry with the use of images and symbols is widespread. Even in the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel two golden calves were set up for idolatrous worship, and, during the reign of one of the later kings, Baal worship was established, with an altar and a sacred pole being erected.—1 Ki. 12:28; 16:29, 31-33.
However, God’s law not to form images did not rule out the making of all representations and statues. As noted above, figures of cherubs were used to decorate the tabernacle in the wilderness and Solomon’s temple in Jerusalem. According to ancient Jewish tradition, these cherubs had human form. They represented angelic creatures. Those on the cover of the ark of the covenant were described as “glorious cherubs.” (Heb. 9:5) In every detail they were made “according to . . . the pattern” Moses received from Jehovah.—Ex. 25:9.
These cherubs indicated the royal presence of Jehovah, who said: “I will present myself to you there and speak with you from above the cover, from between the two cherubs that are upon the ark of the testimony.” (Ex. 25:22) Hence, in a representative way, Jehovah was said to be “sitting upon [or, “between”] the cherubs.” (1 Sam. 4:4; 2 Ki. 19:15) Thus Jehovah impressed upon the serving high priest of the nation, who alone was allowed to enter the Most Holy once a year, that He as God was the Ruler in Israel.—Heb. 9:7; Isa. 33:22.
The other representations of cherubs, in the tabernacle and temple interior, were seen also by the officiating underpriests. So they, too, were impressed deeply by Jehovah’s holy presence.
As we have seen, these cherubic representations were not inventions of men. Jehovah himself ordered that they be placed in the temple for the purpose of making the priesthood fully aware of his presence. Also, they could not be objects of veneration by the people, because the people in general did not see the cherubs and therefore were not induced to treat them idolatrously. (Num. 4:4-6, 17-20) Instead of encouraging idolatry, these cherubic representations constantly reminded Israel’s priesthood of their relationship to the Most High, the ruling King in Israel, the One who exacted exclusive devotion.—Deut. 6:13-15.
The first encounter of humans with real cherubs was outside the garden of Eden, when Adam and Eve had sinned and Jehovah God had put them out of the garden “and posted at the east of the garden of Eden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.” Man had defied God’s position as Sovereign Ruler, and the cherubs as the upholders of the throne of Jehovah blocked the way back into an intimate relationship with Jehovah in the earthly paradise.—Gen. 3:23, 24.
However, the cherubs that later overshadowed the propitiatory cover of the Ark showed that Jehovah was again in the midst of his people Israel. God sat between the cherubs, indicating that he had opened the way into a proper relationship with him.
The priests in Israel bore the greatest responsibility, to keep the people in a proper relationship with Jehovah, “for the lips of a priest are the ones that should keep knowledge, and the law is what people should seek from his mouth.” (Mal. 2:7) The “fear of Jehovah,” as the “beginning of knowledge” and “the start of wisdom,” was to be included in their teaching. (Prov. 1:7; 9:10) Their service in the tabernacle, and later in the temple, constantly reminded them of the presence of Jehovah and implanted a proper fear of Jehovah in their own hearts so that they, in turn, could instill this fear in the people.
However, what happened in the prophet Ezekiel’s days? Alas, the people of the land, under the guidance of their older men, turned away from the presence of Jehovah. In a vision, Ezekiel was brought into the inner courtyard of the temple to see 70 men of the elderly ones of the house of Israel committing idolatry in one of the inner rooms of the temple. They said: “Jehovah is not seeing us. Jehovah has left the land.” (Ezek. 8:9-12) This happened right within the temple without interference on the part of the priests. Because of this idolatry, God brought destruction on Jerusalem and its temple, including its cherubic decorations, in the year 607 B.C.E. Destruction came not because of idolatry in connection with cherubic decorations but because Israel forgot the very thing that the cherubs should have made them realize, namely, the presence of Jehovah as the God exacting exclusive devotion.
So, as Christians in this time, let us hold fast our faith, “keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah.” May we act in faith as seeing the Invisible One, Jehovah.—Heb. 11:27; 2 Pet. 3:12.
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Request from Atlantis "Bible Students Monthly" ~1917
by jgnat incan you get me a scan of this?
the bible students monthly.
this four-page tabloid-sized tract was entitled "the fall of babylon," and it bore the subtitle "why christendom must now suffer--the final outcome.
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Invetigator74
Thanks for the martinis! I see a meeting at "AAA" in my near future. lol Investigator74
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Request from Atlantis "Bible Students Monthly" ~1917
by jgnat incan you get me a scan of this?
the bible students monthly.
this four-page tabloid-sized tract was entitled "the fall of babylon," and it bore the subtitle "why christendom must now suffer--the final outcome.
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Invetigator74
Atlantis I'll pass on the 6 pack(watching my weight or my weight is watching me.) I'll just take a can(lol) Anyway my friends, if you need a copy of any of the WT old literature let me know , I may have. Just reading that tract had me shaking as well (lol) Rick
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Request from Atlantis "Bible Students Monthly" ~1917
by jgnat incan you get me a scan of this?
the bible students monthly.
this four-page tabloid-sized tract was entitled "the fall of babylon," and it bore the subtitle "why christendom must now suffer--the final outcome.
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Invetigator74
Hi jgnat, I have a original copy of that tract.Is there a certain article in the tract you want? It's a large size tract, so it would have to be scanned in sections. I'm stumped on how to post it here, so give me some advice on that. Investigator74
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Mouthy, Deputy Dog, Apostate Kate, and Investigator74
by AuldSoul ini met these folks over the weekend, and i am glad i did.
grace got a couple of pictures of herself flanked by myself and the towering deputy dog.. i missed hearing apostate kate speak on sunday because i was only able to steal away for a few hours on saturday.. .
i hope trevor keeps his word and pays her back, but i will be surprised if he does.
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Invetigator74
Glad you made it back Mom : ) It was my pleasure and joy to spend time with you at the WNJ convention. Will talk to you very soon. Rick
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Mouthy, Deputy Dog, Apostate Kate, and Investigator74
by AuldSoul ini met these folks over the weekend, and i am glad i did.
grace got a couple of pictures of herself flanked by myself and the towering deputy dog.. i missed hearing apostate kate speak on sunday because i was only able to steal away for a few hours on saturday.. .
i hope trevor keeps his word and pays her back, but i will be surprised if he does.
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Invetigator74
I enjoyed the WNJ convention immensely!!! I'll be back next year!Enjoyed the spiritual food(not from the FD class, lol)and testimonies.I finally met by beloved Mom in Christ Grace!! What a wonderful person, Amen! Grace(and Auldsoul,Apostate Kate,Deputy Dog,and the many other brothers and sisters I meet) if you reading this I made a mistake. I'm not Researcher74 but Investigator74. Senility is setting in rapidly and I'm only 50 lol.Anyway look forward to hearing from you all and possibly seeing you next year at the 2008 WNJ convention. God Bless!
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I have a scan of the 2008 Watchtower
by RisingEagle ini have a scan of the cover of the 2008 watchtower witling only edition that i got from an active jw relative earlier today if anyone is interested in seeing it.
i don't know how to post pictures without them being the type you have to click on to enlarge.
if someone wants to tell me how to do it i can post it or if anyone has access to a photobucket account i can e-mail the pic to you.
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Invetigator74
These "Study Watchtowers" appear only as the Kingdom Ministry pamphlet , only in a magazine format.