russia and china are calling for the u.n. to be in charge of the war on terror.. leaders say u.n. must direct terror fight:.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/un_world_summit;_ylt=akz8e.tgsmf_oflkwyivqjrmwmcf;_ylu=x3odmta5bgvna3nhbhnlywnzc3jlba--.
its been my opinion that when responcibility for the war on terror gets turned over to the u.n. they will in time conclude (with god's help) that 'religion' is the main problem and has to be eliminated.. what do you think?
Russia and China are calling for the U.N. to be in charge of the War On Terror.
Leaders Say U.N. Must Direct Terror Fight:
Its been my opinion that when responcibility for the War On Terror gets turned over to the U.N. they will in time conclude (with God's help) that 'religion' is the main problem and has to be eliminated.
What do you think?
am i the only one here who has non-jw and jw siblings who exclude you from "family" social events, but see nothing wrong with asking you to contribute a significant amount of money toward gifts for jw parents who instigate your exclusion from family social events?.
quite frankly, i'm pissed off about this most recent request and i'm planning on ignoring it.
why should i give $200 of my hard earned wages to people who won't permit me in their home or speak to me?
and wonder of wonders... I'm not DFd or DAd, just Inactive™. I almost feel like DAing just to get them to fck off.
They've bastardized the rules so much its all the same now.
24:29; mark 13:24,25; luke 21:25, 26) .
24:30; mark 13:26; luke 21:27) .
24:31; mark 13:27; luke 21:28) .
I see they put the ' What Is the Purpose of Life?' brochure on the Beliefs and Activities page. Clearly there is division among the leadership. No doubt some will be encouraged and some will be stumbled. Hopefuly more will think on their own as a result rather than continue to perform mental and emotional gymnastics to "make" the organization correct in everything.
i am trying to determine if it can be proved that the bible is inspired, and was wondering if most people here believe it is or is not.. i am writing a document on proof of inspiration, but it has ended up more of an article that shows the bible can not be proven to be inspired.
i will be interested in what people think about it when it is finished.
however i am worried that posting such an article may alienate those on jwd that believe the bible to be gods word.
I'm with those that believe we have to define terms. "Inspired" and "Scripture" are the terms. The questions as others have pointed out are; Inspired how and to what degree? Scripture, what it is and what it is not.
I personaly believe the Bible contains three things:
The real key to reading the Bible in my opinion is discernment, reading the verses with a mind open to the possibilities of what else they may be other than the literal word of God.
An example of Holy Spirit overshadowing someone while they are writting (I believe) is Proverbs chapter 8. Compare it with how chapters 7 and 9 read, it is clear to me that Jesus took over the writing of chapter eight.
let's do a little exercise:.
if the generation that saw 1914 will not die before armageddon, as specifically stated by the prophet class (the faithful and discreet slave, per current understanding), how many are left?.
i'll be generous and say that a nine year old could grasp the sharp 1914 changes jws cleave to...well, cleave to religiously, i suppose.. according to the population division of the department of economic and social affairs of the united nations secretariat, world population prospects: the 2004 revision, accessed online at esa.un.org/unpp, sept. 1, 2005, there are about 265,000 persons age 100 or older (that is, who were alive in 1905) in 2005. in other words, world-wide there are fewer from the "generation" that saw 1914 than many city populations in the u.s. alone.. now, suppose for the sake of ludicrous forebearance, we say that the prophet class is allowed a mulligan (a concept flatly disallowed by deuteronomy 18:20-22 and 1 john 4:1).
very very very very very very very very very late did I mention very? extremely? Impossibly?
LOL, I think that was Christ's point. People would be about ready to give up waiting before He comes.
saying, let them come to me.. refrain.
job 30:20, 21, today's english version.. another ot example--job.
yet, each hair is noticed and numbered by jehovah god.
I have to laugh, it seems pretty generic to me, 'God loves you...so hang in there' is their message. Nothing really stands out to me except this:
20 Perhaps Jehovah has allowed your trials to continue. If so, take to heart his promise to those who fear him: "I will by no means leave you nor by any means forsake you." (Hebrews 13:5) You can experience such support and comfort. Jehovah has numbered "the very hairs of your head." He sees your endurance. He feels your pain. He genuinely cares for you. And he will never "forget your work and the love you showed for his name."-Hebrews 6:10.
I would apply this paragraph to all the un-nessasary rules and regulations heaped upon the congregation by the Not-So Faithful and Discreet Slave over the decades since 1914.
........................................
Thanks Blondie ...thanks ezekiel3
let's do a little exercise:.
if the generation that saw 1914 will not die before armageddon, as specifically stated by the prophet class (the faithful and discreet slave, per current understanding), how many are left?.
i'll be generous and say that a nine year old could grasp the sharp 1914 changes jws cleave to...well, cleave to religiously, i suppose.. according to the population division of the department of economic and social affairs of the united nations secretariat, world population prospects: the 2004 revision, accessed online at esa.un.org/unpp, sept. 1, 2005, there are about 265,000 persons age 100 or older (that is, who were alive in 1905) in 2005. in other words, world-wide there are fewer from the "generation" that saw 1914 than many city populations in the u.s. alone.. now, suppose for the sake of ludicrous forebearance, we say that the prophet class is allowed a mulligan (a concept flatly disallowed by deuteronomy 18:20-22 and 1 john 4:1).
Those who were born in 1914 could also be said to have 'seen' it. That would make them 91 now. I have never accepted the adjusted view of the 'Last Generation.' I believe those that were born in 1914 ARE the last generation. Jesus in His illustrations stressed His returning would be late, even very late by our reasoning. I believe the GB has fell victim to their fears and anxioties because of the lateness of the hour...Remember from 1875 on, they were looking at 1914 to bring Armageddeon. Since that time those leading the congregation have lost sight and it seems even hope of the nearness of the end of this system. Matthew 24: 48 and Luke 12: 45
i have written an article for my parents.
they are somewhat influential in the org and i am trying to convince them to push for changes to current disfellowshipping policy, not that i hold out too much hope.
anyway, i would like what i have written checked for accuracy.
The whole article is excellant
, you should edit your post to display it. Start a new thread if nessasary.
I like your reasoning through out the entire article, it is both sound and sane.
Here is a small example:
Scriptural guidelines on disfellowshipping
There are several key scriptures that form the basis for excommunication or disfellowshipping. A close look at these show that the extreme standard invoked by Witnesses can not be justified. Jesus himself introduced the standard for disfellowshipping: Matthew 18:15-17 15 “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he does not l isten to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector .” Did Jesus say not to ever utter a word to a wrong doer? No, he stated they should be treated as a person of the world. Remember that Jesus himself spoke to tax collectors, but these people would not be considered close friends. Paul expanded on this concept, giving a list of practices that would lead to a brother being shunned. 1Co 5:11 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner , not even eating with such a man. In 1 Corinthians it still does not say to totally avoid a brother who is a wrong doer, rather it says to quit mixing in company with such a person and not eat with such a man. As the Watchtower explains, this scripture only indicates that we are not to socialise with these people as friends. Kingdom Ministry August 2002 p.3 Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped “God’s Word states that we should ‘not even eat with such a man.’ (1 Cor. 5:11) Hence, we also avoid social fellowship with an expelled person. This would rule out joining him in a picnic, party, ball game, or trip to the mall or theater or sitting down to a meal with him either in the home or at a restaurant.” This statement does not mean that this type of person must never be spoken to. If they are at a meeting it would be reasonable to talk to and encourage them. Most certainly a polite greeting is acceptable. Finally Paul and then John gave some stricter advice in regards to a particular type of person. (Romans 16:17) 17 Now I exhort YOU, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that YOU have learned, and avoid them . 2 John 7, 9-11 7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist … 10 If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching , never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him . Paul says to avoid those causing divisions, which would indicate he was referring to apostates. In 2 John it takes a far harder line than that of either Jesus or Paul, stating not to even greet such a person. But what type of person is it referring to? The Antichrist. This type of person should be totally avoided as they can damage a person’s faith. It is only the Antichrist that is stated as the type of person not to even be greeted. The does not include your average sinner. Yet the Watchtower stance is to treat all disfellowshipped wrongdoers in the manner John said was to apply to the Antichrist. The Organisation uses the statement of that single scripture in 2 John and applies it to every single person that does not follow a long list of Society dictated rules. If a witness gambles, smokes, or has a blood transfusion they can be disfellowshipped for life. Every single one of their Witness friends is told not to ever greet them again, unless they repent and return to the Organisation. For a number of my friends even their own mothers have not spoken to them for 20 years. Yet such extreme shunning is only ever stated once, and was only supposed to apply to the Antichrist.
posted for blondie:
comments you will not hear at the 8-28-05 wt study (july 15, 2005 magazine issue date)
review comments will be in red
15 Another fine way to show faithfulness in the field service is to apply the suggestions found in The Watchtower and Our Kingdom Ministry. When we prepare and use the suggested presentations or others that are realistic, do we not find that our ministry is more productive?
16 (continued) What, though, about smaller things? Could it be that even without realizing it, we may be influenced by the ways of the world? If we are not careful, for instance, how easily our manner of dress can become undignified and inappropriate! Being faithful calls for "modesty and soundness of mind" in the matter of dress and grooming. (1 Timothy 2:9, 10) Yes, "in no way are we giving any cause for stumbling, that our ministry might not be found fault with; but in every way we recommend ourselves as God's ministers."-2 Corinthians 6:3, 4.
Its always good to quote the guilt instilling opinions of Paul rather than the freedom encouraging words of Christ...So if I read this right, as long as we dress (and groom) like its pre-1960 we're modest and we will never stumble anyone?? What about all those people who look at us and think we're a bunch of nuts in a cult because of our narrow and antiquated styles? Or don't they count in God's eyes? Maybe you should just give us uniforms? Too much freedom of choice in selecting what to wear is bound to cause us to start thinking independantly! After all, there are sooo many styles to choose from between 1930 and 1960! Hmmm... Decisions, decisions...
Modesty is a matter of attitude more than it is a matter of attire.
Very Sincerely,
Flash...
"Three and one half years away from a KH and I'm lovin it." da da da da da
..................................................................................
Thanks for filling in ezekiel3.
what is "the faith"?.
the faith?.
5, 6. what standard do we have for testing whether we are in the faith, and .
...were challenging the authority of the apostle Paul
The apostle Paul was an over-zealous, unbalanced, opinionated and stubborn man and because of which ignored obvious divine warnings thus causing his own pre-mature DEATH (Acts 21). He is hardly an example to follow, unfortunetly the GB and their appointed minions show by both their words and actions that they prefer to live by Paul's teachings rather than those of Jesus.
With the help of people like Paul, the GB continually leads the congregation back to the Law Code that Jesus set us FREE from!
..................................................
Thank you Blondie
