Posts by Oracroth

28

What book(s) are you reading?

by gaiagirl in

jw
friends

i just finished a 'historical novel' titled "confessions of a pagan nun", by kate horsley.

this is a story about a woman who grew up in ireland during the late 5th and early 6th century, at the time when christianity was beginning to displace the older pagan customs.

the story tells how gwynneve is raised according to the beliefs of her ancestors, and the conflicts she experiences as she gradually comes into contact with those claiming to represent the christian faith.

Oracroth

I just finished a Sociology book and I plan to study genetics next. I am a man of knowledge and I plan to major in every scientific field I can imagine all through self study.

10

good news from a jw!

by badboy in

jw
friends

the long overdue magnetic reversal will not happen b/c jehovah will intervene 2 stop it happening.

Oracroth

Btw, what magnetic reversal?

10

good news from a jw!

by badboy in

jw
friends

the long overdue magnetic reversal will not happen b/c jehovah will intervene 2 stop it happening.

Oracroth

I think the best way to test that theory is to become the element of the destruction. If yo really want to know if someone will step in, do it and find out. Destroy the o-zone layer, kill everyone, etc.

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23

a closed mind, a requirement?

by peacefulpete in

galatians opens with the direction to not listen to opposing religious views.

it goes so far as to say that even if they (ostensibly paul and his party) or an angel from heaven presents another opinion, they must refuse to listen even then condemning the messenger as an enemy.

ironically this very obstinance is condemned among the jews in the bible, when they supposedly refused to listen to the new direction from the christians,jesus and even the angels who according to the story announced this new faith's arrival.

Oracroth

It's ironic how much JW influences everyone. On the outside of the religeon and it seems everyone still can't help but look in. I don't beleive anything anymore. If I'm imperfect then no matter what I do I'm going to get it wrong. Even that fact that I don't feel like striving for inevitability is wrong biblically. Therefore I cast off my flesh and accept that I am nothing more than dust attempting to alter the coarse of other dust on this dust filled rock we call a planet trying to prove that I'm more than dust. Eventually I will die and become dust once again so other dust can feed on the dust that sprouts from me. That is all life is.

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"I have lived countless Eons only to find that I would trade it all for a chance never to have lived."

25

Did a 'major-event' cause you to join/leave JW?s?

by cyberguy in

it seems to me, many people become jw?s after a major event in their lives.

perhaps it is the death of a loved-one, such as a father, mother, child, wife, or husband.

on the other hand, it?s also my observation that a "major-event" often causes an active jw to rethink what they are doing with their life, whether they are really in the "truth," as jw?s call it.

Oracroth

I found out cabbage makes my feet stink. When I sat in the kingdom hall people couldn't help but cover their noses and move away from me. I thought it was my overpowering aura, apparently it was an aura of a different nature. The Circuit overseer immediately had me removed and I was never allowed back in.

Well, that was one possible scenario, but what really happened is I just decided that life didn't matter, and since life didn't matter living forever doesn't either, and since living forever doesn't, then what really does matter? I was evicted after constantly having sex with people, I know elders don't like to hear this, but I couldn't help myself. I got reproved twice and then disfellowshipped. I was planning to get reinstated at the time, but I question the validity of everything now, bible, social, moral, everything. So here I am, talking to everybody here and wondering why everyone really puts so much effort into hatred of witnesses when every organization on the face of this planet has the exact same problems. If you are part of an organization, you are molded to their liking, you are sculpted to be an atomiton. In fact the bible says you have to be molded like clay in order to serve god. If you can't be molded, if seeds can't be sown on you, then you aren't god material. I am my own person, in life and in death, not by choice but by force, does that mean I can't and never will be god material? Government, Religeon, science, they are all the same in the end.

16

Will it come to this?

by Valis in

i found this off handed today and was wondering if jws will ever go this far?church of scientology.

flag service organization.

(hereinafter referred to as "the church").

Oracroth

Mental danger only exists if you allow it to exist. All of the universe only exists in what we can concieve, if you don't allow yourself to concieve information given to you, then it has no affect on you.

44

Only Two Religions

by barry in

i know i may get shot down in flames for this but here goes anyway.

im quoting fron dr des fords site http://www.desford.org.au/home/index.php/mission.

there are and always have been only two religions in the world.

Oracroth

I'm starting to realize choice doesn't really matter in the long run. The more I research, ponder, and conceive the more I realize that all choices end up vanity. The laws of the universe dictate that there is no random action or energy. Anything that happens can be precalculated if you knew the formula that governs that object. Even our brains use dendrites and neurons and such to signal thought. Making a precise copy of me and sticking it in the same scenario's as myself would end up having the same exact outcome. If the bible is true, how do you think prophesy would really work? It'd be a precalculation of factors in order to concieve an end. The question then is, do any of our choices really matter? If the universe was created again in the exact same way at the exact same time adam and eve would have done the exact same thing. Which means no matter how many times I went through life I would have failed and succeeded in the same spots I failed and succeeded.

What does that mean to me? I feel like it means there are no fair choices since the result of my choices will always end up the same. Without a truly random factor in the universe then nothing really matters. And thanks to that I question the rellevance of anything we hope for. Society dictates to us what is sin and what is virtue. Sin all depends on what you beleive in. I even question whether it really matters if I live or die. Can I truly say it was horrible before I was born? Is it possible for me to care if I was never born? Isn't death being in the same state of non-existance as never being born? Whether the bible is utterly true or utterly false doesn't matter. Concepts of happiness, peace, joy, these are all just a state of mind that can be reached in countless ways. Living forever intrigues me, but it doesn't matter in the end. Take life from me and I won't live to care about it.

45

How many people did you personally bring into the truth?

by yxl1 in

are they still witnesses?

do you feel personally responsible?

have you made any attempt to correct their/your mistake?.

Oracroth

Honestly, I never brought in a single 1, never actually had a study, and never felt at ease with it. I always talked to people and they would explain to me how JW's come off a programmed or as if they are reciting some sort of practiced speech to them at the door so I always ended up justspeaking my mind at the door. Alot of my friends seemed to love my methods, but I'm unorthodox in all that I do.

Would I feel guilty if I did bring someone in? That all depends on how they are feeling in the long run. I think alot of people talk about freedom expressed through breaking away from JW yet there is no acceptance of someone choosing to be a JW. If they are happy and at peace, that is all that matters. Alot of the problems JW's face in america doesn't seem to be as prevalent outside these borders. Alot of what happened to me never would have happened if I was a member of a different ethnicity. Choice is all we have as humans, take it away and we are synthetic beings.

14

What is the story of Oracroth's JW Demise?

by Oracroth in

i'm nobody special but i'll give my example anyway.

i was born a jehovah witness, i'm sure alot of you know what the entails.

the first part of my life i didn't take it serious in the least.

Oracroth

I'm nobody special but I'll give my example anyway. I was born a Jehovah Witness, I'm sure alot of you know what the entails. The first part of my life I didn't take it serious in the least. If you walked into the Kingdom Hall and looked around, I'd be the one with my arm holding up my head sleeping. I figured, what's the point of even being there? My older brother especially hated it. My father became a MS and then an elder. He was the 6'4" Nice guy at the meetings but when he got home he treated us like we weren't even related to him, not because we weren't taking meetings seriously, but because he had solid anger problems. I once left his computer chair 3 feet from his desk and he punched me dead in my chest for it. My brother ran away from home at 16 after my dad punched him across the room and didn't come back home until he was 18 after being caught selling guns on the street. As soon as he could he got a place and left. My brother feels anything that has to do with god is a joke. After what he went through can you blame him. I was 13 at the time my dad punched him. I didn't really know how many problems my dad had until my brother left (my two older sisters left before him).

After my brother left, I was the oldest so I got the wrath the most. I pretty much felt like a waste of space on this rock we call a planet and everything I did in life showed it. Other than a few people close to me, I hated everyone and everything. Not the kind of anger where you were outspoken spiteful and violent, the inner anger where you wanted nothing more than to be erased from existence. My school life was horrible, I hardly attended (people actually clapped when I stepped onto the bus one day), I failed every class and I did whatever I wanted to. The school couldn't control me. I was very suicidal at this point, the concept of having a reason for life was lost to me. Ironically though, through all of that, I beleived in god. I would get in theological arguments with people constantly, some people (especially gangsters) sat around and just talked to me about Jehovah. I don't know what it is about thugs and god, but they really hold on to him.

Eventually I went to class one day and a teacher told me I was gonna fail his class, the first day of class. He didn't know me, he had no previous information about me, how would he know? I found out from my brother that he was racist and couldn't stand black people. I thenwrote him a letter and said I would take his life, I was serious. I had nothing to lose. I was immediately detained by the police. I guess you can say fortune was on my side, since I was diagnosed as "Emotionally disturbed" I had many school consellors fighting for me. I also guess it didn't hurt that I also scored very high on IQ rating tests, and had a placement level outside of school, so they convinced everyone I was merely upset with and had no intentions of going through with. Anyway, I was expelled and placed in a private school which actually was a great school. They allowed students to smoke in an area (the police let them get away with it, we were gonna smoke anyway), there was no homework, and they were extremely gifted teachers, and only 5 students in each class. Not to mention alot of the people in the school had the same outlooks on life as me, so it was easy for us to relate to one another. This all seems like it's off the subject, but this all relates to the whole Jehovah Witness thing.

My parents moved and I followed (I was 17, where was I gonna go?). We switched kingdom halls and I acted like your basic thug, staring people down, etc. Then some of the witnesses decided to come and meet me. I'm not really sure when it happened, but I actually started to feel they were alright. I started doing better in the meetings, at school, and in life in general. I couldn't shake the old habbits though, I still had chaotic tendencies. For me though, that was a huge change. I actually met another witness who was deep and intellectual. We ended up being real cool and kicked it with each other everywhere. To me, alot of witnesses don't really question their own actions, even if the bible directly tells them they are out of order, even if the circuit overseer gives a talk directed at them, they will continue on in the same manner as if they never heard it.

I don't know if it was because of habbit but I eventually just started trying to get with witness girls. I used to think I was way to wicked for them, I been with countless girls outside of the kingdom hall, but I was doing better, I even pioneered some, so why not try right? That was probably the worst idea I ever came up with and was the source of much of my trouble. I think so many young witness girls are so bottled up, people like me almost attract them like a breeze of fresh air. At first everything was fine, but apparently I hollered at too many and I got the reputation as being a "player" in the congregations. I wasn't trying to get with every female who talked to me, but it appeared that way. I could accept that appearances look bad, but I can't be a jerk and just tell people "I can't talk to you anymore cuz people think it looks like we should be dating." I think male/female relationship is very vague in the bible outside of marriage, unfortunately alot of weak minded individuals take their own personal beleifs as law and attempt to enforce it on you. At first it didn't bother me too much that people hated me, people gossip in every walk of life. Alls that mattered is I was clean before god right? Eventually me and this girl got together and we ended up having sex without being married. We both got reproved for it and we broke up. She got married to a non-JW and is attending all the meetings without him. I on the other hand underwent alot of shaft for that. Somehow everyone knew about what I did and the gossip started costing me friends. Alot of people wanted to be cool with me, but the haters made sure to make them look bad. Females always wanted to be cool with me, which made me look worse, cuz I tried to keep things innocent. My past didn't help, cuz somehow everyone got wind of that too.

Eventually I fell in love with this JW girl, and she was into me too. She had her history too (it's wierd how many people have a bad history). So she was alright with mine. The gossip eventually got to her and someone told her it was all a game for me to be with her and I'd leave her after awhile. That was the last straw, I found who I wanted, finally do everything the right way to get her and someone costs you it all just by telling that person "Don't get with him, he'll love you and leave you" even though I never did that to any witnesses ever. I started to regress after that, what is the point? I honestly held everything in the bible to be true, and really I had no problem with the great majority of witnesses either, but the people who think they are righteous and think they know how it is, I can't stand em. The people who know a few scriptures and quote them regularly but can't keep their eyes out of other's business, I hate that. Gossip, slander, it makes me sick. I went out looking for girls outside of the congregation and got disfellowshipped for sex.

My feeling after that was, if your gonna screw up, do it right. One of my good friends who was cool with me even before I took witness seriously got disfellowshipped too. So we got apartment and decided to fight life on our own. I thought everything would be smooth and I could always come back to the congregation when I felt like it right? I think my bible knowledge only grew after I left, cuz I did alot more free form studying. I still have many bible discussions with people. I started to understand why many people acted like they did to me with gossip and such, alot of those people contacted me and apologized (even though I'm DF and they shouldn't). After I left though life has been hard, when I originally was in with the people I have around me, I was one of them, After being a faithful witness, it changes things, you see how slow minded so many are and how lost they are. Lately though, I have questioned all the basic concepts of god. If all of man is imperfect, couldn't the entire bible be? What if god really does hate my existence? I have seen nothing that proves that I am created, or evolved. I have seen no miracles and I have not had much of a life. That's my story though, the outkast forever. Some witnesses still try to talk to me and encourage me to come back, especially my family. I bear no ill will to anyone anymore, it's pointless to hate people who have no idea what they've done to you. I was mad at the time but after seeing the outside world again I realize that some people just don't learn to take in all knowledge, even knowledge that is beyond the scope of the bible. I have a girlfriend and a baby on the way, and I will do my best to bring her up to have a strong will and mind. Maybe she'll end up a JW, maybe she'll be a evolutionist. As long as she isn't a hypocrit, I'll be okay.

33

Facial Hair and J.W.'s

by Coop Man in

i have always wondered why witnesses are not "allowed" to have facial hair.

when i asked a local elder just a few weeks ago (he had no idea i was inactive, just happened to bump into him while my parents were visiting from out of town), his explanation was that "in some countries, it is totally acceptable to have beards, goatees etc...., but in the u.s. of a., facial hair is a sign of rebellion.

so, the local or territorial opinions on beards is what drives the local congregations policies.

Oracroth

Wow, I don't know how many of you used to be witnesses, but that's basic JW knowledge. The concept is that you are trying to be presentable in the utmost way for your area. In the United States having beards is not generally accepted as being well kept in the business world. Therefore JW's don't wear beards. If you did grow a beard as a JW then you would lose your privledges until you shaved it off. With privledges you are supposed to be a model of what a JW should be. If the president of the USA ends up growing a beard then it will be accepted for JW to wear a beard. I've talked to many elders about this and looked up info before I got disfellowshipped.