Posts by dothemath

8

Witnesses having children

by JH in

jw
friends

i remember when i started mingling with the jw's in the mid 80's, they said that it was too late in this system to have children.

the great tribulation just around the corner made it a bad idea to have children, they said.. today with just about "zero increase" having children is a way of ensuring future witnesses.

i didn't set foot in a kh in 2 years, but if i remember well, the only new faces i saw were children that became adults.. i wonder if they still discourage witnesses from having children...or do they see it as something good now, since not many are joining?

dothemath

I think this issue has turned around 180 degrees from years ago. Some have already mentioned references to past statements about "responsible childbearing".......etc. In the past it was pretty much discouraged. But the last summer's district convention had a part which was quite different.

Children are now considered a "blessing" again. What a difference from other conventions.........I recall an interview with a pioneer couple (early 1980's).........they "vowed to never have children, and never to own a house" right from the platform. (I recall the CO saying..."that's great"......most of the audience applauded....)

There've been numerous occasions when parents were made to feel quite uncomfortable when an over-zealous brother had a part regarding this subject over the years..........what has resulted is that the most spiritually-minded ones decided against a family.........ones not so inclined to go by "the letter of the law" did have families.

I wonder if that pioneer couple have lived up to their vow yet today?

6

Franz and Penton

by dothemath in

.

would some of you still be in the organization if these two individual's reforms had been adopted?.

ironically..........i think the society is gradually moving in the direction of some of their ideas......... 0ne example..........i recall a tv interview in which james penton (whom i met when he was still a witness) made the argument that blood transfusions should be allowed in an emergency ........and used the example of david and his men eating the "show bread" while on the run from saul........normally totally off-limits but okay in this case.. this thinking was of course condemned by the society........but i wouldn't be surprised if that idea resurfaces some day because of all the back-tracking on this stand, as well as many blood components now being allowed.

dothemath

Would some of you still be in the organization if these two individual's reforms had been adopted?

Ironically..........I think the Society is gradually moving in the direction of some of their ideas........

0ne example..........I recall a TV interview in which James Penton (whom I met when he was still a Witness) made the argument that blood transfusions should be allowed in an emergency ........and used the example of David and his men eating the "show bread" while on the run from Saul........normally totally off-limits but okay in this case.

This thinking was of course condemned by the Society........but I wouldn't be surprised if that idea resurfaces some day because of all the back-tracking on this stand, as well as many blood components now being allowed.

7

Las Vegas

by dothemath in

jw
friends

i heard some time ago that have never been any district conventions in las vegas........anyone know for sure?

there must at least be circuit assemblies ........... if this is true........where do all these ones have to go for a district convention?........

(la is about 6 hours, last time i travelled it)

dothemath

I heard some time ago that have never been any District Conventions in Las Vegas........anyone know for sure? There must at least be Circuit assemblies ..........

If this is true........where do all these ones have to go for a District Convention?........(LA is about 6 hours, last time I travelled it)

32

Are We Powerless To Beat The Watchtower At Its Own Game?

by minimus in

jw
friends

the watchtower tries to slander and abuse anyone not on their side.

anyone that disagrees with them, "runs ahead of jehovah".

we are called "apostates" because we dare prove why the society is wrong.

dothemath

I think there is an extremely successful movement against the Watchtower..........not that it's some kind of organization itself.

Now you can read virtually any secret document, letter, etc. put out by the Governing Body........the elder's manuals even. At our last elder's school.......it was mentioned if anyone wanted a new book (the elder's Pay Attention) they might as well just download the whole thing from the internet.

It's evident that some of the "apostates" must be getting good information regularly right from the Bethels themselves at times.

I'm not the only one who has stumbled on this type of information...........even our CO must be perusing either watchtowernews.org, or this website, because some of the examples he gave were word for word what was being discussed (it was a current lawsuit).

44

The Society has given up on "holiday witnessing"

by dothemath in

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up until a few years ago......every dec. km had a part encouraging everyone to go in the ministry on the holidays.......christmas day, etc.. no one ever got too excited about it in our cong.

.........it was pretty much a joke to everyone even when commenting on it during the meeting part.. that no longer seems to be the case..........haven't seen any parts like this for a few years now......i guess they've given up completely.. the meeting part usually included some "fine experiences"......but i have heard exactly the opposite from some who actually tried it one time.. have any of you ever went in service on christmas day?

dothemath

Minimus......don't know if this was happening in your area, but even the circuit overseers seem to have skirted around this in recent years........they always seem to schedule their pioneer schools, or elders schools around this time of year.

20

Is this Islam?

by Sirona in

.

i'm always willing to give a religion a chance, especially when i don't know much about it.

does this represent islam's view of women?.

dothemath

Hi Sirona..........looking at some of Islam's beliefs do make Witnesses look a little less controversial.......

Islam is full of do's and don'ts...........shows what can happen when trying to live by a rigid code.....which will never keep up to changing world conditions, as opposed to living by principles......which never go out of date.

44

The Society has given up on "holiday witnessing"

by dothemath in

.

up until a few years ago......every dec. km had a part encouraging everyone to go in the ministry on the holidays.......christmas day, etc.. no one ever got too excited about it in our cong.

.........it was pretty much a joke to everyone even when commenting on it during the meeting part.. that no longer seems to be the case..........haven't seen any parts like this for a few years now......i guess they've given up completely.. the meeting part usually included some "fine experiences"......but i have heard exactly the opposite from some who actually tried it one time.. have any of you ever went in service on christmas day?

dothemath

Up until a few years ago......every Dec. KM had a part encouraging everyone to go in the ministry on the holidays.......Christmas day, etc.

No one ever got too excited about it in our cong. .........it was pretty much a joke to everyone even when commenting on it during the meeting part.

That no longer seems to be the case..........haven't seen any parts like this for a few years now......I guess they've given up completely.

The meeting part usually included some "fine experiences"......but I have heard exactly the opposite from some who actually tried it one time.

Have any of you ever went in service on Christmas Day?

70

So you think I'm a hypocrite?

by dothemath in

........reply to joker 10.

.......i just noticed your post........can't say i blame you for thinking that.

i mentioned i'm currently an elder and don't plan on leaving the organization...........but i probably won't be an elder much longer......as i'm not exactly the "ball of fire" they want.

dothemath

........Reply to Joker 10

.......I just noticed your post........can't say I blame you for thinking that. I mentioned I'm currently an elder and don't plan on leaving the organization...........but I probably won't be an elder much longer......as I'm not exactly the "ball of fire" they want. There are already numerous topics I would have to not accept as assignments, as I don't agree with the "current" teaching.

I also find many paragraphs I couldn't (in good conscience) comment on for the same reason........

Many of the watchtower discussions I enjoy the most are found right here on this website.......(good research, Blondie)

I also no longer contribute to the world-wide work.........I feel more Christian donating to other causes, which seem to provide more tangible results for people.......

Without going into too much detail.........I do try to include relevant history of what Jehovah's Witnesses used to believe........on the platform and elsewhere.........just so people remember we haven't been perfect and don't know everything.

It's frustrating to see the attitude of those in charge.......so ready to criticize other beliefs and religions, and yet so unwilling to accept valid criticism themselves.

34

marriage = jw + jw

by HapEMelissa in

does the marriage of an active jw have to be to another active and practicing jw?

dothemath

Just a note on the way this is handled in this country.........standard to have a "marking talk" regarding the individual..........strongly emphasized also is for no-one in the cong. to attend the wedding.

If a servant was to attend- he would be automatically deleted from that position.

It also seems that it's very unclear as to when (if ever) this "marking" is to end.

I recall several instances where the person would have been better off disfellowshipped.......and eventually re-instated rather than being essentially treated the same by marking, and having it go on indefinitely.

It seems to have been re-emphasized more frequently in the last couple of years, also, whether regular meeting parts, or at assemblies.

65

this website is having an impact

by dothemath in

hello.........this is a first for me- i've been reading some of your messages for some time now, and i must say you guys study your watchtower far better than i ever did.

i'm still a part of the congregation (and an elder), but i have to say i agree with many of your criticisms of the organization.

we've become just like the pharisees that jesus condemned............at our last assembly, the do and co warned against apostate material over and over again..........so i certainly think you're having a tremendous impact on their actions.

dothemath

reply to minimus

Why do you think that you would never leave????......You seem adamant. Care to expound??

I've got too many friends and family in the organization.........would be too high a price to pay.......

reply to ballistic

you mention the intensified warnings about listening to alternate ideas (aka apostates), do you think this intensity is actually counter productive in their terms, as it will breed curiosity and lack of trust?

Yes, I think it is.........most in our cong. watched the Dateline/ Fifth estate shows about child abuse.......yet the DO kept saying it was all lies........villified everyone for even watching or talking about it. But you can tell people realize these aren't "all lies"........the organization seems to react in a very un-christian manner toward these victims.

I don't know if it's like this in other areas of the world, but here we're told which weddings we can attend, which funerals we can go to..............many are forced to avoid funerals of even close relatives.......just at a time when they need compassion the most.

It'll be interesting to see the results of the recent service year........in this area I know of many rural congs. that have been disbanded, as well as some in the larger centers. In a neighboring district, there have even been an entire circuit deleted.