Posts by seeitallclearlynow

6

found this interesting...

by luna in

x - close recent stories by john christoffersen associated press.

stabbing of jehovah's witness poses legal quandary

by john christoffersen, associated press.

What is the appeal of Watchtower Farm and Patterson?

by Never Was in

a little background on me.

i have never been a jw or had any desire to be one.

i definitely have no desire to join.

I visited Watchtower Farm only once, 25 years ago. I was bored stiff. But we went there on vacation (really!) and got to stay in one of the little cabins. Believe me, almost anything is a vacation when you live at Brooklyn Bethel .

The rural setting was nice, actually, and I saw my first fireflies. That was really cool.But the facilities seemed barren and devoid of humanity. I hated it there. My husband loved it; and he has since returned many times to visit both Brooklyn and the Farm, taking the kids once or twice. They express no interest in visiting again.The brother we drove up there with wanted to really feel like he was on vacation, so he didn't shave and he dressed in casual clothes. He was not allowed in! We had to go back to the cabin so he could shave and change clothes. I got a real kick out of him, when he wasn't terrifying me on purpose with the reckless way he drove around New York. I swear there are very few traffic laws and hardly any marked lanes.

I hated Bethel and the Farm. And the food was stupid. The eggs did not taste like eggs. They had some kind of filler in them when scrambled. The toast had gelatin in it to keep it from getting dried out. Gross. The bacon was smoked at the Farm, and didn't taste like bacon. Shockingly, we had saffron rice once, and it was great. And in my entrance school there was a brother from Hawaii, and when he was assigned to work in the kitchen, suddenly we got some tasty garlic and ginger teriyaki chicken. But the rules about the meals were stupid. And the rushed nature of the meal service was stupid.

One good thing about serving at the Farm instead of Brooklyn was, at harvest time, they didn't have to go to all the meetings or out in service due to the urgent nature of harvest!

13

I led the class in the Pledge...

by Badger in

just started back the school year last week.

first period, the announcements struck up, along with the pledge of allegiance.

i had since fourth grade refused to say the pledge and explained to my friends why not.

seeitallclearlynow

Good for you Badger!! Romans 13:1-7 was always ignored by the Society.

And good point, _b12! How dare they, instead of saying "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit," ASK us if we understand the FACT that we are "being baptized in association with God's spirit-directed organization on earth!"

That's just going too far. (Like a lot of their man-made doctrines.)

20

Amusing conversation re: Memorial

by IronGland in

jw
friends

coworker: what does everyone else do?.

coworker:.

coworker: are you serious?

seeitallclearlynow

That's great IronGland!

33

Fistfights at the KH/ assembly hall.

by avishai in

jw
friends

another topic brought this up.

my dad slugged a guy who beat up his own wife, my dad's childhood friend, during the intermission right after the public talk.

which my dad gave, he was guest speaker.

seeitallclearlynow

Love this thread, Avishai!

I wish I'd been in your congregation. Not that I like violence. But the Watchtower makes such emasculated robots out of most of the men that it's actually refreshing to hear about men acting like men, albeit imperfect men.

Of course, when they hurt their wives and children, that's a completely different story.

There was one brother, Daniel, who got worked up during a football game with a bunch of other brothers. Tempers flared, and another player wouldn't get out of Dan's face. Dan knew himself, and he kept asking the the other guy to back off, walk away, I'm warning you, don't make me hit you, don't make me hit you man, but the other player was either looking for a fight or was out-of -control stupid or stubborn, soooo...Daniel beat him up! He had to be reproved.

Then they moved to Texas! Perfect! Great family, actually.

25

Has anyone ever personally written to the Society?

by seeitallclearlynow in

jw
friends

i've been listening to marlene mercado's audio testimony on jwinfoline while reading and posting here today; and it reminded me that i had written to the society once, years ago, and i received a response.

the response made me angry with them, although they were agreeing with me on something that i was complaining about.

what made me angry was that they made no acknowledgment that they put a lot of pressure on the brothers to reach out and even after they have attained an office of oversight, a lot more pressure is put on the elders and servants to do more, do just so, etc....they claimed that it was my elder husband's own fault that he was barely ever home, and when he was, he was in his den or on the phone with someone who couldn't make any decisions on their own.

seeitallclearlynow

I've been listening to Marlene Mercado's audio testimony on Jwinfoline while reading and posting here today; and it reminded me that I had written to the Society once, years ago, and I received a response. The response made me angry with them, although they were agreeing with me on something that I was complaining about. What made me angry was that they made no acknowledgment that they put a LOT of pressure on the brothers to REACH OUT and even after they have attained an office of oversight, a lot more pressure is put on the elders and servants to DO MORE, do just so, etc....They claimed that it was my elder husband's own fault that he was barely ever home, and when he was, he was in his den or on the phone with someone who couldn't make any decisions on their own. Of course, I had to make all my own decisions and figure everything out for myself, because my own husband was ALWAYS busy with other people, and of course, elders' wives can't ask another elder for help, because that would be insulting to her own husband and head; and of course, we never got any shepherding, since OBVIOUSLY we had our own shepherd in our own husband, DIDN'T WE????

62

What Did you Plan On Doing In The New System?

by minimus in

jw
friends

every child and bible student was told about how wonderful the "new system" was going to be.

"and what animal do you want to have in the new system?

"......that was a very typical question.

seeitallclearlynow

I was really looking forward to the New World (if I made it), often thinking of Jeremiah 31:34, which seemed to me, would allow for more normal, human joy. I was sure there would not be all the ridiculous meetings and empty service.

Beyond that, I intended to be a good surfer. What could be more exhilarating!

And of course, I would travel to all of the beautiful spots on earth and possibly in outer space too, if that were ever part of the arrangement.

And I would make friends with the intelligent playful sea creatures and others that we have read about, and I would get to hold all the baby animals all over the earth.

And like Big Tex said, live happily ever after...if I survived the last test when Satan was let loose...again.

31

Did You Ever REALLY Love Jehovah?

by minimus in

jw
friends

witnesses are taught that they must love their neighbor and jehovah god.

when persons fade away or leave abruptly or get disfellowshipped, you often hear this statement:"well, they obviously never really loved jehovah anyway"........looking back, can you say that at one time you really did love jehovah?

seeitallclearlynow

As others have stated so well already, how could I love the JW God? I "served" him for these reasons:

1. "The conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard, is: Fear the true God and keep his commandments. For this is the whole obligation of man." Or, as the NAS puts it, "because this applies to every person." No love is required there. Only (wholesome) fear of the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. How could anyone not serve Him, if they thought they knew what was required??

2. "You must love (Jehovah) your God with your whole heart...soul...and...mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this, "You must love your neighbor as yourself." Well, since I could not love Jehovah with my heart, just because He ordered me to, and I wasn't allowed, as one of JW's, to obey the second commandment, since I was required to shun and treat as despicable certain ones of my neighbors and family members, I had to try to "love" Him with what was left, that is, with my soul and mind - so I studied with my mind, hoping that one day, I would be good enough to "see" Him the way the others did, and maybe actually love him.

3. "He that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. And this good news will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." So, since the end was absolutely coming very soon, how could I possibly not warn other people???

But now, happily, I do love the Lord, but He doesn't really go by the name Jehovah so much anymore.

4

Another JW topic........at the door..........

by Dawn in

jw
friends

another idea for a question to as the jw's....... me: would you accept something that was told to you as fact without the ability to verify that information?

(hopefully they would not be so stupid as to say yes.......duh...........).

me: so can you explain to me how you use this nwt bible when you can not verify that the bible translators were actually bible scholars?.

seeitallclearlynow

Sounds great! When I was first told that the New World Bible Translation Committee were anonymous, I assumed that meant that their names were listed in New York, but just not in the NWT itself. But I was an ignorant 16 year old from an authoritarian/atheistic household.

I just hope you say it very kindly and even warmly - because all the people who might have been able to make a point with me over the years in the door to door work used a critical, personal attack mode of delivery, so naturally I paid no heed, and just thought they were jerks. I just kept using Theocratic Tact and excused myself sweetly....

Thanks for the tip.

40

Disassociated

by Euphemism in

jw
friends

i just found out that the elders announced meia's and my disassociation at the service meeting this week.

they'd called me on monday and told me that they were going to; i fired off an appeal letter the next day, and hadn't heard anything, so i thought they might have postopned the announcement.

i just found out, however, that the meeting was held on monday this week because the other congregation had the co's visit.

seeitallclearlynow

You know, now that I think about this, I have been keeping quiet for the same reason, and yet my former father-in-law has been disfellowshipped for about 19 years, and we all still talk to him! Even his son and the new wife go over to the house and talk to him like it's nothing sometimes. I was there with them all once (was that uncomfortable - but not because of Dad! )

No one talked to him at the funeral they all just went to, but after the funeral, his grandson went over there and had what he poignantly described as a wonderful visit with Grandma and Grandpa, "in their cozy, comfortable house."

I'm hoping my son extends that same mercy and reasonableness to me when I come out. In fact, when I spent about an hour talking to him recently about some of the reasons I don't want to go to meetings and why I question what we've been taught, he was not uneasy, and tried to "reason" with me, and said, well, "If it's not for you, that's okay with me, but I just wish you would talk to (this particular elder)."

So, I'll keep ya'll posted on this.