Posts by Alleymom

25

+++ VIGIL - TUESDAY 11TH DECEMBER +++

by Sad emo in

jw
friends

please join in sending your prayers, good thoughts, reiki, healing vibes, lighting a candle or just taking a moment to think of all those named and unnamed who are fighting cancer or in any other need.

also their loved ones and caregivers.. - has been fighting mantle cell lymphoma for three years.

he received an allogeneic cell transplant and his latest blood and bone marrow results have shown no trace of cancer!!

Alleymom

With prayers for each one of you, and for the families and caregivers.

Love,
Marjorie xo xo

129

587/607 Question...

by deaconbluez in

if the exile wasn't to be 70 years, how is jeremiah 29:10 explained by pro-587 folks?.

10 "for this is what jehovah has said, in accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at babylon i shall turn my attention to you people, and i will establish toward you my good word in bringing you back to this place.. .

also, if it truly was a 70-year period of servitude, and not exile, when was this 70 years served by other nations?.

Alleymom

??? ?a?s a? ??e?t

You guys are great! Ok, how did you enlarge the font? Changing it in the HTML window messes things up.

ιου γαισ αρ γρειτ

129

587/607 Question...

by deaconbluez in

if the exile wasn't to be 70 years, how is jeremiah 29:10 explained by pro-587 folks?.

10 "for this is what jehovah has said, in accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at babylon i shall turn my attention to you people, and i will establish toward you my good word in bringing you back to this place.. .

also, if it truly was a 70-year period of servitude, and not exile, when was this 70 years served by other nations?.

Alleymom

Ok, I think I have fixed the formatting error. Let me see if the Greek letters in the star names display properly now.

Edited - nope, it didn't work. What's weird is that the theta displays ok, but the alpha and beta get changed to question marks. And I even tried saving it in plaintext and running it through Notepad. Oh, well.

129

587/607 Question...

by deaconbluez in

if the exile wasn't to be 70 years, how is jeremiah 29:10 explained by pro-587 folks?.

10 "for this is what jehovah has said, in accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at babylon i shall turn my attention to you people, and i will establish toward you my good word in bringing you back to this place.. .

also, if it truly was a 70-year period of servitude, and not exile, when was this 70 years served by other nations?.

Alleymom

Furuli takes the lunar eclipse in Month III(printed in red, below) as the starting point for his revisions to year 588/587 BCE. Counting backwards, he arrives at a date in May for the Babylonian New Year.

Considering that the lunar data in Month III is absolutely vital to his case, it is interesting to note that he omits some of the the data from the Month III entries in his calculations.

I have highlighted the parts he skipped in yellow.

VAT 4956, obverse, lines 12 - 18
12 Month III, (the 1st of which was identical with) the 30th (of the preceding month), the moon became visible behind Cancer; it was thick; sunset to moonset: 20°; the north wind blew. At that time, Mars and Mercury were 4 cubits in front of a ?[Leonis….]
13 Mercury passed below Mars to the East; Jupiter was above a ?Scorpii; Venus was in the west opposite ? ?Leonis [….]
14 1 cubit. Night of the 5th, beginning of the night, the moon passed towards the east 1 cubit (above, below) the bright star at the end of the Lion’s foot. Night of the 6th, beginning of the night, [….]
15 it was low. Night of the 8th, first part of the night, the moon stood 2 ½ cubits below ß Librae. Night of the 9th, first part of the night, the moon [stood] 1 cubit in front of [….]
16 passed towards the east. The 9th, solstice. Night of the 10th, first part of the night, the moon was balanced 3 ½ cubits above a Scorpii. The 12th, Mars was 2/3 cubits above [ a Leonis….]
17 [….] The 15th, one god was seen with the other; sunrise to moonset: 7°30’. A lunar eclipse which was omitted [….]
18 [ …. the moon was be]low the bright star at the end of the [Lion’s] foot

In Furuli's revised year 588, Month III, day 9 is July 8/9 ---- which was not the date of the solstice.

EDITED TO ADD - I don't know why, but when I pasted in the lines from the translation, question marks were inserted in the place of some of the Greek letters in the star names. The correct form can be seen in the jpeg file I attached last night.

Marjorie

129

587/607 Question...

by deaconbluez in

if the exile wasn't to be 70 years, how is jeremiah 29:10 explained by pro-587 folks?.

10 "for this is what jehovah has said, in accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at babylon i shall turn my attention to you people, and i will establish toward you my good word in bringing you back to this place.. .

also, if it truly was a 70-year period of servitude, and not exile, when was this 70 years served by other nations?.

Alleymom

Ann ---

There is yet another problem with Furuli's revised year 588 starting in May.

Line 16 of VAT 4956 records the summer solstice on Month III, day 9 (which is Julian date June 28/29).

However, in Furuli's revised year 588, Month III, day 9 is July 8/9 ---- which was not the date of the solstice.

Marjorie

129

587/607 Question...

by deaconbluez in

if the exile wasn't to be 70 years, how is jeremiah 29:10 explained by pro-587 folks?.

10 "for this is what jehovah has said, in accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at babylon i shall turn my attention to you people, and i will establish toward you my good word in bringing you back to this place.. .

also, if it truly was a 70-year period of servitude, and not exile, when was this 70 years served by other nations?.

Alleymom

The previous image was too small. I will try again.

129

587/607 Question...

by deaconbluez in

if the exile wasn't to be 70 years, how is jeremiah 29:10 explained by pro-587 folks?.

10 "for this is what jehovah has said, in accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at babylon i shall turn my attention to you people, and i will establish toward you my good word in bringing you back to this place.. .

also, if it truly was a 70-year period of servitude, and not exile, when was this 70 years served by other nations?.

Alleymom

Here is a chart I made showing the values of the Lunar Three intervals given in VAT 4956 compared with the values obtained by using sunrise/set, moonrise/set times (RTS), from modern astronomical software.

[deleted -- image too small]

129

587/607 Question...

by deaconbluez in

if the exile wasn't to be 70 years, how is jeremiah 29:10 explained by pro-587 folks?.

10 "for this is what jehovah has said, in accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at babylon i shall turn my attention to you people, and i will establish toward you my good word in bringing you back to this place.. .

also, if it truly was a 70-year period of servitude, and not exile, when was this 70 years served by other nations?.

Alleymom

3. Furuli most certainly has skipped data. He has quoted half lines from VAT 4956 and has neglected to quote or discuss the "Lunar Three" time intervals of sunrise-to-moonset, moonrise-to-sunrise, sunset-to-moonset, and sunrise-to-moonset given in the rest of the text.
4. Other scientists have analyzed the Lunar Three time-intervals; I have quoted from F.R. Stephenson and D.M. Willis, “The Earliest Datable Observation of the Aurora Borealis” in Under One Sky: Astronomy and Mathematics in the Ancient Near East, ed. John M. Steele, Annette Imhausen, 2002, Ugarit-Verlag, Vienna.
5. The Lunar Three calculations in astronomical diary VAT 4956 prove conclusively that the tablet's data is from 568/567 BCE, not 588/587 as Furuli claims.

Here is the English translation of VAT 4956 from A. J. Sachs, H. Hunger, Astronomical Diaries and Related Texts from Babylonia, Volume I: 652 B.C. to 262 B.C.

I have highlighted the "Lunar Three" time intervals for sunrise-to-moonset, moonrise-to-sunrise, sunset-to-moonset, and sunrise-to-moonset which Furuli ignores.

Marjorie

129

587/607 Question...

by deaconbluez in

if the exile wasn't to be 70 years, how is jeremiah 29:10 explained by pro-587 folks?.

10 "for this is what jehovah has said, in accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at babylon i shall turn my attention to you people, and i will establish toward you my good word in bringing you back to this place.. .

also, if it truly was a 70-year period of servitude, and not exile, when was this 70 years served by other nations?.

Alleymom

Apostates such as Jonsson are greatly troubled by Firuli's research and Jonsson has already made public feeble attempts to discredit Furuli concerning VAT 4956 and it is probably the case that both of you have beeb guided by him on this forum.

You both accuse Furuli of 'skipping data' ...

1. I am not an apostate. I have never been a member of Jehovah's Witnesses or affiliated with them in any way.

2. I have not been guided by Jonsson. My remarks about Furuli's omission of the "Lunar Three" data from VAT 4956 are entirely my own, based on my own analysis of Furuli's book, volume 2.

3. Furuli most certainly has skipped data. He has quoted half lines from VAT 4956 and has neglected to quote or discuss the "Lunar Three" time intervals of sunrise-to-moonset, moonrise-to-sunrise, sunset-to-moonset, and sunrise-to-moonset given in the rest of the text.

4. Other scientists have analyzed the Lunar Three time-intervals; I have quoted from F.R. Stephenson and D.M. Willis, “The Earliest Datable Observation of the Aurora Borealis” in Under One Sky: Astronomy and Mathematics in the Ancient Near East, ed. John M. Steele, Annette Imhausen, 2002, Ugarit-Verlag, Vienna.

5. The Lunar Three calculations in astronomical diary VAT 4956 prove conclusively that the tablet's data is from 568/567 BCE, not 588/587 as Furuli claims.

Marjorie

24

R. Furuli, Vol. 2 Chronology Book and the Kandalanu Saturn Tablet

by AnnOMaly in

some of the problems with furuli's analysis of vat 4956's lunar data have already been discussed here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/145519/1.ashx.

the saturn tablet dated to kandalanu's reign (appendix e, pp.

logical and scientific methodology applied here?

Alleymom

Ann's quote from Furuli: "One problem with the scheme of Walker [against whose traditional scheme Furuli’s comparisons are made – A] , if I have understood him correctly, is that year V of Kandalanu begins on 12 March. This is before the vernal equinox, and four other years begin before this event as well. We cannot exclude the possibility that a year could begin before the vernal equinox, but that is not likely. In the scheme used for Nabopolassar all the years begin after the vernal equinox."

Ann's comment: Oh that explains why the Julian dates are off ( again - they were off for the alternate dating of VAT 4956’s lunar positions too). Despite Parker and Dubberstein’s standard work showing that Babylonian new years in the 7th and 6th centuries BCE frequently began before the vernal equinox (March 27/28, Julian date), Furuli maintains that such an event was ‘not likely.’

Ann --

Thanks for the excellent analysis of Furuli's discussion of the Saturn tablet in Appendix E.

For further reading on the question of Babylonian new years falling before the vernal equinox, I recommend Manuel Gerber, "A Common Source for the Late Babylonian Chronicles Dealing with the Eighth and Seventh Centuries," Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 120, No. 4 (Oct.-Dec.2000), pp. 553-569.

Gerber analyzed 101 Babylonian New Year's dates between 748 and 539 BCE.

The data shows that there was a shift in the dates of the Babylonian New Year. In the 8th century, it was frequently celebrated before the vernal equinox; in fact, Gerber says that the "commonly held view" is that "the aimed-for beginning of the Babylonian year in the eighth century fell about two weeks before vernal equinox."

There was a shift to roughly ten days after the equinox during the reign of Nabopolassar, but a look at the charts shows that there were still many years when it was celebrated before the equinox right through the entire neo-Babylonian era.

Also note that on page 534 Gerber says: "The Julian equivalents of the 87 New Year's dates of the Neo-Babylonian empire (626-539) are known reliably with an error margin of one day (Parker and Dubberstein 1956; with a correction in Neugebauer and Sachs 1967: 189; Kennedy 1986: 222)."

Here are the dates from Parker and Dubberstein. I have highlighted the years when Nisanu 1 (the Babylonian New Year) was celebrated before the vernal equinox.

Year BCE / date of Nisanu 1. Highlights indicate New Year fell on or before the vernal equinox.

626 = 4 April BCE
625 = 23 March624 = 13 March
623 = 1 April
622 = 21 March
621 = 10 March620 = 29 March
619 = 18 March618 = 6 April
617 = 25 March616 = 14 March615 = 2 April
614 = 23 March613 = 10 April
612 = 30 March
611 = 20 March 610 = 8 April
609 = 27 March608 = 16 March607 = 5 March606 = 24 March605 = 11 April
604 = 1 April
603 = 21 March602 = 9 April
601 = 29 March
600 = 18 March599 = 5 April
598 = 26 March 597 = 12 April
596 = 2 April
595 = 21 April
594 = 11 April
593 = 29 April
592 = 18 April
591 = 7 April
590 = 26 April
589= 14 April
588 = 3 April
587 = 22 April
586 = 12 April
585 = 1 April
584 = 21 March583 = 9 April
582 = 29 March
581 = 16 April
580 = 6 April
579 = 25 March578 = 13 April
577 = 2 April
576 = 21 April
575 = 11 April
574 = 31 March
573 = 18 April
572 = 7 April
571 = 25 April
570 = 15 April
569 = 3 April
568 = 22 April
567 = 12 April
566 = 1 April
565 = 21 March564 = 10 March563 = 28 March
562 = 16 April
561 = 5 April
560 = 25 March559 = 13 April
558 = 3 April
557 = 22 March556 = 10 April
555 = 30 March
554 = 18 April
553 = 6 April
552 = 25 April
551 = 15 April
550 = 4 April
549 = 22 April
548 = 12 April
547 = 1 April
546 = 21 March545 = 8 April
544 = 28 March
543 = 16 April
542 = 5 April
541 = 25 March540 = 13 April
539 = 3 April

Marjorie