Posts by seattleniceguy

16

evolution VS. creation

by doogie in

jw
friends

hey guys,.

what do you think: evolution or creation?

for those of you who believe in evolution, what are some good resources on the subject?

Hey doogie, be sure to check out those pro-creationist sites. Then compare them to the information available on sites like TalkOrigins.org (which I just want to plug again - it is spectacular!). Then ask yourself: Which group is really being honest with the available data?

One thing that was very interesting to me was learning about how Darwin came to his understanding of evolution. He was a fundamentalist Christian at the time he sailed on the Beagle. In fact, his fellow sailors made fun of him for constantly referring to the Bible as the absolute authority on matters. He describes in his journal how the observations he made on that journey led him to question the Genesis account, how in spite of his religious beliefs he began to feel that when he honestly looked at the evidence, gradualism made more sense.

Of course, I'm not endorsing evolution because of any person; a theory stands or falls on its own merits. But Darwin's experience resonates with mine: I did not want to question the Witnesses or the Bible, but reason forced me to do it. I had to be loyal to reality, not to what I wanted to believe. This is the attitude of science, and I think that if you study evolution you will find that evolutionary theories have been arrived at through this same dedication to see what is there, not what our parents or church said was there.

Start at the FAQs at TalkOrigins. You can't go wrong.

SNG

21

How To Know If You're in a Cult!

by metatron in

jw
friends

you don't need to read a book or consult a psychological expert.

it's all very simple.. ask yourself: if i refer to this group as a "cult", could i be excommunicated or disfellowshipped or expelled?.

have the leaders of this group instructed me not to refer to it as a "cult"?.

seattleniceguy

Interesting post, as usual, metatron. I'm thinking about this from a business perspective. Let's pretend that I work at Microsoft and I start telling people that Microsoft is a cult. I think most people would just find it silly. They'd be waiting for the punchline, a la, "You know Microsoft must be a cult because...everybody there's got to have a badge to get in!" Or something dumb like that. It's hard to imagine the company actually getting upset over something like that. So I have to agree, the touchiness of the reaction does say something about the real nature of things.

SNG

20

I miss my friends

by seattleniceguy in

jw
friends

i saw a movie tonight and came home thinking about a couple old friends who are still witnesses.

i miss them something awful.

i needed to write, so i wrote in my journal for a while, but i really felt the need to write them directly.

seattleniceguy

Thanks, guys. I realize now that when I left last year, I understood that I needed to do it regardless of the pain, and so to some extent I didn't feel it. The various euphorias of new discovery and shocks relating to how the Witnesses reacted dampened the pure emotional reaction for a long time...until now, it would seem.

Thanks for writing back. Means a lot to me.

SNG

20

I miss my friends

by seattleniceguy in

jw
friends

i saw a movie tonight and came home thinking about a couple old friends who are still witnesses.

i miss them something awful.

i needed to write, so i wrote in my journal for a while, but i really felt the need to write them directly.

seattleniceguy

I saw a movie tonight and came home thinking about a couple old friends who are still Witnesses. I miss them something awful. I needed to write, so I wrote in my journal for a while, but I really felt the need to write them directly. So I sent them an email tonight. Thinking back over the experiences we shared, it made me cry. I wish they could understand what terrible pain was involved in leaving that organization.

I hope for a response but I fear that I will get a form reply. I remember how difficult it was to show compassion for people as a Witness. Indeed, I was adept at cutting off human emotion when confronting the problem of my disassociated father while I was a Witness. I know how automatic it is to hide behind the shield and give the standard reply: "We love you too but you have chosen not to support Jehovah and his Kingdom." Yes, that's true, but in the same way that I have chosen not to support Santa and his Elfdom - not because I stand opposed to it but simply because I cannot believe that it is real! Why would God give us a brain and then punish us for using it as honestly as we know how?

I wish it were possible to convey this in a way people could understand. But alas for the night! It is not to be, at least not tonight.

SNG

40

do you believe only the jw's will be saved? from official wtbs website.

by candidlynuts in

do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not jehovah's witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life.

many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before god's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation.

seattleniceguy

gdt, you have a PM...er, you will have one in a few minutes.

SNG

40

do you believe only the jw's will be saved? from official wtbs website.

by candidlynuts in

do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not jehovah's witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life.

many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before god's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation.

seattleniceguy

Hi gdt,

Nice to have you on board. Yes, if it were really true that their view had softened, it would be interesting. But there are countless examples of WT literature taking both sides of the issue, so as to appear whichever way is convenient at the time. On the PR site, jwmedia.org, you'll find very politically correct, cautiously worded views. If you attend a district convention, you'll get a much different story. The point is that the WT Society gives different information to different audiences. It's not full disclosure, and it's deceptive. I didn't always feel this way, but I've now seen enough that I recognize it as the truth.

Just my two cents.

SNG

40

do you believe only the jw's will be saved? from official wtbs website.

by candidlynuts in

do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not jehovah's witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life.

many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before god's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation.

seattleniceguy

Wow, Dan and I posted almost identical replies, written in isolation. That makes "two witnesses," so to speak! :)

SNG

40

do you believe only the jw's will be saved? from official wtbs website.

by candidlynuts in

do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not jehovah's witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life.

many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before god's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation.

seattleniceguy

Blondie already made a good response, but I'll take a crack at it too. Let's take a close look at the quote. This is deceptive writing because it obscures their actual position.

Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life.

Translation: They could not have been JWs since JWs didn't exist. They will get a shot at being JWs.

Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation.

Translation: Many now living may yet become JWs, which would lead to their salvation.

Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully.

This is an incredible misstatement of the actual position, which Blondie's quote above makes clear. This is public relations fluff. If God looks at the heart accurately and judges mercifully, he should be aware that there are billions of honest and sincere people out there who are not, and never will be, JWs. But you will never find such a concept in JW doctrine.

God has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.?Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27.

...but, as the JW line usually continues, "We don't judge, because God has already made clear what the requirements are for survival. We don't judge gay people - God already has." Etc, etc.

The paragraph makes for excellent PR, but is a serious misrepresentation of the actual doctrine. The writers for the Watchtower should take their own counsel on honesty. True honesty means telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

SNG

49