Posts by amac

67

NEW JW POLICY POSTED!!!

by amac in

i don't know if anyone has posted on this already but there is a new press release at http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=bg_molestation.htm that defines the current jw policy and i believe it has taken a step in the right direction!.

although they have not literally changed it to require reporting to the authorities in all states, they have finally put into print the following: "additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.".

i am glad to see, straight from the wt, acknowledgement that the adults involved have every right to go to the police.

amac

You are reading too much into this.

How can I read too much into a statement like "it is his or her absolute right to do so." ?

You compare this to the blood issue, but it is completely different. On blood, the elders and HLC ACTIVELY discourage witnesses from using blood, and it is a common belief among JW's to not take blood.

There is no common belief about NOT reporting child abuse and the elders are NOW instructed to NOT discourage JWs from reporting. This is COMPLETELY different than the blood issue.

I take this statement as an enormous LEAP in the wrong direction. They are putting the 'reporting pedophiles' issue in the same pile as voting and blood. You'd better off be dead than doing it, but if someone asks, we sure didn't tell you that. In fact, we aren't saying you can't do it at all. But, we will make it clear you will die at Armegeddon if you do

I'm sorry, but I believe THIS to be reading too much into that sentence. You are adding theories to the misapplication of this statement.

67

NEW JW POLICY POSTED!!!

by amac in

i don't know if anyone has posted on this already but there is a new press release at http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=bg_molestation.htm that defines the current jw policy and i believe it has taken a step in the right direction!.

although they have not literally changed it to require reporting to the authorities in all states, they have finally put into print the following: "additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.".

i am glad to see, straight from the wt, acknowledgement that the adults involved have every right to go to the police.

amac

Valis, I'm sorry that you see it in that way. Although it has happened due to bonehead elders and stupid people in the congregation, there is not a whole lot we can do to change people, that's up to each individual.

The important thing is that it is now documented from the society that there are to be no sanction against witnesses who report allegations and that it is their ABSOLUTE RIGHT to do so.

What this means is that with all present and future allegations, Witnesses can safely report these to the authorities and if anyone (elders or fellow witnesses) holds this against them, then they are clearly going against WT policies, and THEY are the ones sinning.

I see this as an added benefit to children who have been victimized. I see this helping locate and punish child molesters, as compared to the mindset in most witnesses prior to all of this.

67

NEW JW POLICY POSTED!!!

by amac in

i don't know if anyone has posted on this already but there is a new press release at http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=bg_molestation.htm that defines the current jw policy and i believe it has taken a step in the right direction!.

although they have not literally changed it to require reporting to the authorities in all states, they have finally put into print the following: "additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.".

i am glad to see, straight from the wt, acknowledgement that the adults involved have every right to go to the police.

amac

I don't know if anyone has posted on this already but there is a new press release at http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=bg_molestation.htm that defines the current JW policy and I believe it has taken a step in the right direction!

Although they have not literally changed it to require reporting to the authorities in all states, they have finally put into print the following: "Additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so."

I am glad to see, straight from the WT, acknowledgement that the adults involved have every right to go to the police. I believe this is a step in the right direction and this clarification in print is a result of the recent exposure.

I would still like to see reporting by elders in all states, however, the WT has now clearly stated that those approaching the elders have an absolute right to report this themselves.

I hope everyone that is critical of the WT is pleased with this clarification, I know I am. It will certainly work for the benefit of any future allegations. Especially since I'm sure this release will circulate the witness email ring.

Cheers,
amac

41

HERE'S WHAT JW ELDERS DO TO LITTLE GIRLS

by crawdad2 in

they question her, in private, all alone with her.... then the questioning keeps breaking down the little girl, so she crys, and they watch, making her describe every detail of the sex act......while she crys..... they want more exact details of where here tounge was............. while she crys....... then they go to a room for 5 min and come back and tell her she doesn't have 2 witnesses, and that she should just keep quite about the matter.. and if she says anything about the matter at all, she will be punished........."then"... she has to go "home" and face "daddy" the "petophile"...... daddy is kind of mad.... do you get the picture yet????????????????????????????????????.

meanwhile daddy is asked to give a part on the assembly.. and little girl has learned to not tell-on daddy........ever again, or she might "die".

amac

I'm sorry, I have a critical mind. There's always more to every story, and I was immediately curious if that was the sole reason.

4

"Pedophile Paradise"

by LyinEyes in

i think many wt defenders will try and say , well, all churchs.

have these problems, look at the catholics.

this is true, this is.

amac

WHY does it take putting out articles to elders to show compassion?

Because there are a lot of stupid people in the world. And there are obviously a good number of elders who need help in developing the mind of Christ.

4

"Pedophile Paradise"

by LyinEyes in

i think many wt defenders will try and say , well, all churchs.

have these problems, look at the catholics.

this is true, this is.

amac

1) only Watchtower SENDS CONVICTED RAPISTS TO PEOPLES DOORS
2) only Watchtower EXPELS/SHUNS the survivors

DB, why do you repeatedly post this? You make it seem that the WT policy is to DF all victims of abuse and this is not the case. Although it has happened, it is usually local elders misapplying the WT's directions or the WT covering it's butt against people pointing out their faults. I agree that both of these scenarios are no good, but to make it seem as if they have a policy of DFing victims is misleading.

The only changes I feel need to take place is a worldwide policy for all elders to either report suspected child abusers to the authorities or at least encourage the family to do so and to put out some articles on how elders should show compassion to these victims.

41

HERE'S WHAT JW ELDERS DO TO LITTLE GIRLS

by crawdad2 in

they question her, in private, all alone with her.... then the questioning keeps breaking down the little girl, so she crys, and they watch, making her describe every detail of the sex act......while she crys..... they want more exact details of where here tounge was............. while she crys....... then they go to a room for 5 min and come back and tell her she doesn't have 2 witnesses, and that she should just keep quite about the matter.. and if she says anything about the matter at all, she will be punished........."then"... she has to go "home" and face "daddy" the "petophile"...... daddy is kind of mad.... do you get the picture yet????????????????????????????????????.

meanwhile daddy is asked to give a part on the assembly.. and little girl has learned to not tell-on daddy........ever again, or she might "die".

amac

So for all you lurkers out there, yes there are some very good people in the JW organization, but like in ALL religious organizations, there are some people that are sick...

I fully agree, and because of this, I would never paint a picture that all the elders are bad.

And of course, my last experience with elders interogating a young woman was when they came to talk to my daughter while my husband and I were out of town. They questioned her about what she and her boyfriend were doing alone, heavy or light kissing, etc. Apparently they made her feel so awful about herself that she took her own life the next morning....

That is absolutely awful! I am sorry to hear that. But are you sure that is the reason she took her life? That seems odd that a lone incident like that would push someone to suicide.

41

HERE'S WHAT JW ELDERS DO TO LITTLE GIRLS

by crawdad2 in

they question her, in private, all alone with her.... then the questioning keeps breaking down the little girl, so she crys, and they watch, making her describe every detail of the sex act......while she crys..... they want more exact details of where here tounge was............. while she crys....... then they go to a room for 5 min and come back and tell her she doesn't have 2 witnesses, and that she should just keep quite about the matter.. and if she says anything about the matter at all, she will be punished........."then"... she has to go "home" and face "daddy" the "petophile"...... daddy is kind of mad.... do you get the picture yet????????????????????????????????????.

meanwhile daddy is asked to give a part on the assembly.. and little girl has learned to not tell-on daddy........ever again, or she might "die".

amac

And by the way, nice posts LittleToe, plmkrzy and Xena.

41

HERE'S WHAT JW ELDERS DO TO LITTLE GIRLS

by crawdad2 in

they question her, in private, all alone with her.... then the questioning keeps breaking down the little girl, so she crys, and they watch, making her describe every detail of the sex act......while she crys..... they want more exact details of where here tounge was............. while she crys....... then they go to a room for 5 min and come back and tell her she doesn't have 2 witnesses, and that she should just keep quite about the matter.. and if she says anything about the matter at all, she will be punished........."then"... she has to go "home" and face "daddy" the "petophile"...... daddy is kind of mad.... do you get the picture yet????????????????????????????????????.

meanwhile daddy is asked to give a part on the assembly.. and little girl has learned to not tell-on daddy........ever again, or she might "die".

amac

Unanswered questions to amac

I didn't answer them because I didn't want to waste my time debating someone who is making blanket implications about over 70,000 men...but since you insist...

At what point does crawdad's story become atypical? The personal questions?

No, I'm sure personal questions are asked to determine the scenario.

The conclusion that there is nothing they can (will) do?

No, I'm sure many have reached that conclusion.

The warning not to tell anyone else for fear of shunning?

No, I'm sure that has happened as well, in, more or less, different words.

which you declined to answer, preferring instead, to set up a straw-man. It is the hallmark of a weak argument.

It wasn't an argument, it was a satirical response to emphasive the absurdity of adding implication to simple facts.

Neither crawdad nor I said anything about asking these questions for the elders' sexual gratification. Did you need to take it to that extreme to win your argument?

See comment to previous quote.

This is the point that I got from crawdad, and it mirrors so very many experiences I've read and heard personally

And exactly how many experiences would that be? I guess it must be high enough to feel that the majority of 70,000 elders act that way. Please reread Lastcall's post that you seemed to enjoy. They made a very good point of applying personal experience as a generalization.

You added that to make a more easily defeated argument. Surely you don't have a problem with the statement that she would be questioned to the point of crying? In my old hall they used to call it "the crying room." So what do you disagree with? Oh yeah, you disagree with the statement that you inserted. The words that you put in someone's mouth are suddenly "delusional". Nice debating technique. [insert sarcastic eye-rolling thingie here]

Again, it wasn't an argument...I was mocking the exagerrated implications of the initial post. And your bit about crying...there's lots of reasons why people cry...it doesn't automatically mean that the elders were inconsiderate bastards that questioned her to the point of crying simply out of their lack of consideration.

I understand that you're not good at answering direct questions

Has this been good enough for you?

maybe you could enlighten me as to what part of these statements you find so hard to believe:
You don't think they step out of the room? You think they hash it out in front of the person?
You doubt it takes five whole minutes? How many minutes... four... three?
I don't mean to confuse you with multiple questions, just pick one of them. That would be super.

I really enjoy how you attempt to mock my intelligence, yet you were completely unable to see the meaning of my posts. I don't disagree or agree with any of those, I'm sure every JC meeting is a little different and I'm not going to attempt to generalize them all into one set of actions. THE BIT I DISAGREE WITH IS THE IMPLICATIONS MADE BY THIS THREAD THAT ALL ELDERS ARE HEARTLESS BASTARDS ONLY DOING WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE SOCIETY. Got it?

It seemed to me--and I could be wrong here--that he was relaying a real-life experience that happened to someone he knew. If that's the case, it is not meant to portray EVERY SINGLE MEETING, WITH EVERY SINGLE GROUP OF ELDERS IN THE WORLD. By taking it to such a silly extreme it's easy to tell yourself that it doesn't happen at all. Congratulations.

Well it seems to me that when you start a thread titled "HERE'S WHAT JW ELDERS DO TO LITTLE GIRLS " and then proceed to paint a picture of inconsiderate, heartless men, upsetting little girls, that would be what I call......ummmm....let's see.....maybeeee....a GENERALIZATION! That's what I disagree with.

9

What are some PRO JW sites where...

by amac in

jw
friends

they might be talking about dateline?

i would like to discuss this show with some jws to see some average reactions of the show.

amac

Thanks Detective, that's the one I was trying to remember...