Posts by dh

london (reuters) - eight young iraqis arrested in the southern iraqi town of basra last year were assaulted by british soldiers, and one of them died of his injuries, according to the independent on sunday.

baha mousa's body was returned to his family covered in bruises and with his nose broken, after he and seven other men were arrested by british forces in september 2003 and held in military custody for three days, the paper said.

dh

but i'm not one for blaming an idiot for doing something stupid

this is a question of murder

i agree, but i am looking at the context... in a context of peace time, say you kick someone to death in your office at work, surely it is murder and it is a use of excessive violence, but if you lose your temper and yell at someone (which is stupid), it's an acceptable measure of de-stressing/violence, however if your job involves killing regularly, and seeing your friends get killed, loud noises, gunfire, where yelling and all of the normal acts of rage are routine, naturally everything goes up a gear, you lose your temper and kill someone by mistake (which is also stupid), if an office professional can lose his cool, control or temper and yell, it's easy to see how this can happen to a soldier, just it's more extreme, like Patio said, 'not killing machines' everyone is an individual with their own stress level, and if like ISP said, we really should look at these 'individual cases' as i said we shouldn't because it's the nature of the beast, then we have to look at the whole lot, including the circumstances of the soldiers involved.

i think that kicking someone to death in peace times and kicking someone to death in a war may be the same act with the same end, BUT they are very different crimes.

mitigating circumstances your honour, and in this case i'm sure there are many, which i'm sure the MOD will be looking into.

then it is complaints like the web-site that might help change the system

i agree it could help change the system in theory, i don't think it will in practice though, just because of the stress levels that are involved, someone will always lose it, not for lack of training, but because of the nature of it, and kill kill kill kill doesn't inspire one to be peaceful.

The point of war is not just to kill people, never has been. That is the point of genocide.

i agree, but since killing is such a big part of it, there will always be this sort of baggage to accompany every war.

anyway, i've ranted on enough, probably more ammo for you to mock me with ;)

take it easy,

dh'

15

UK squaddies kick Iraqi to death

by ISP in

uk soldiers may have kicked iraqi to death

london (reuters) - eight young iraqis arrested in the southern iraqi town of basra last year were assaulted by british soldiers, and one of them died of his injuries, according to the independent on sunday.

baha mousa's body was returned to his family covered in bruises and with his nose broken, after he and seven other men were arrested by british forces in september 2003 and held in military custody for three days, the paper said.

dh

LOL, I will say you've come along way from being a JW

it's always nice to be mocked, but the war you write about is paper theory warfare, i just said in another post, the US doesn't hold to the geneva convention, it doesn't hold to what the UN says, it does as it pleases, if the geneva convention is a tool of convenience, i.e. you prosecute someone because they break it and you're breaking it every day yourself, sorry, to me that is just garbage.

It doesn't mean we shouldn't try to hold to some standards of military conduct, does it?

sure, of course there SHOULD be standards and there always HAVE been standards, it doesn't change the bottom line that bad things WILL always happen when one man is called upon to kill another, and as i also said in another thread, which may apply to your father blondie, is that an officer with an education is a world apart from a dumb unemployable recruit, or grunt squaddie who joined the army to shoot guns and blow shit up.

You may have noticed, warfare is conducted quite differently than say, 100 years ago.

you mean now we mostly just push buttons and distance ourselves from the blood and guts? but when they declared war on afghanistan the us went running to the french to brush up on hand to hand combat techniques that they never thought they'd have to use in 'modern warfare'.

No, your position isn't logical. I mean, it's nice that you are anti-war

okay so it's not logical, i am anti THIS war more than you imagine, but i'm not one for blaming an idiot for doing something stupid when it's a government that gave him the power to do it in the first place.

the notion that OUR soldiers are better than THEIRS morally is stupid. they're defending their home, we're invading, of course they have the moral high ground.

dh'

15

UK squaddies kick Iraqi to death

by ISP in

uk soldiers may have kicked iraqi to death

london (reuters) - eight young iraqis arrested in the southern iraqi town of basra last year were assaulted by british soldiers, and one of them died of his injuries, according to the independent on sunday.

baha mousa's body was returned to his family covered in bruises and with his nose broken, after he and seven other men were arrested by british forces in september 2003 and held in military custody for three days, the paper said.

dh

my position isn't logical?

war isn't logical.

i'm all for stopping a government going TO war, not crying that it did warlike things when it was AT war.

i think it's logical to want to stop a thing at the source, i think it is illogical to pick at the things that happen afterward.

sure, we train soldiers to do all sorts of things, have you ever seen a soldier in bayonette training? running at dummies sticking them with a knife on the end of a rifle, crawling through mud? what's the word the drill sergents train them to shout?

Kill

why? because that is what soldiers do. primitive, but that is what goes on, if you have that drummed into your head and all the other gung ho shit, of course you are going to do it, and of course some people who joined the army at 16 aren't too smart and don't have the self control or university education of some officers.

we have to stop the governments if we want to stop the wars, not let the media choose scapegoats.

dh'

15

UK squaddies kick Iraqi to death

by ISP in

uk soldiers may have kicked iraqi to death

london (reuters) - eight young iraqis arrested in the southern iraqi town of basra last year were assaulted by british soldiers, and one of them died of his injuries, according to the independent on sunday.

baha mousa's body was returned to his family covered in bruises and with his nose broken, after he and seven other men were arrested by british forces in september 2003 and held in military custody for three days, the paper said.

dh

don't get me wrong simon, i can't stand this war garbage or the governments that started it with their lies, but these guys are soldiers on the ground, uneducated grunts, if you put this type of people in this type of situation, of course this type of thing is bound to happen.

we don't train soldiers to win hearts and minds, we train them to kill.

maybe the war is 'officially' declared as over, but in the mind of every soldier still out there the war goes on, and in the mind of every iraqi no doubt until our governments leave them alone, the war will go on.

dh'

15

UK squaddies kick Iraqi to death

by ISP in

uk soldiers may have kicked iraqi to death

london (reuters) - eight young iraqis arrested in the southern iraqi town of basra last year were assaulted by british soldiers, and one of them died of his injuries, according to the independent on sunday.

baha mousa's body was returned to his family covered in bruises and with his nose broken, after he and seven other men were arrested by british forces in september 2003 and held in military custody for three days, the paper said.

dh

i don't know why everyone is fussing about individual cases like this.

this sort of stuff is normal in a war, we show it on tv every day.

if we don't want this to happen we need to fix our governments and not have any more wars, not make a drama out of something that was inevitable.

dh'

(edited to say: we show it on tv every day as ENTERTAINMENT and pay millions to see it, now when we get it for free we complain?)

12

Killer God & His Body Count

by dh in

does anyone know the exact number of people recorded as being killed by god in the bible?

not those killed by old age or illness or the acts of genocide that aren't given a death toll figure (like the flood), i wondered what the body count was for those acts of genocie that do have a documented death toll, or kill figure (god sent an angel to kill 100,000 etc).. anyone any ideas?.

dh'

dh

yeah i am not dismissing those killed by men, i am just wondering how many god admits to killing, the difference between men and god being (you do accept that there is a difference right elamona?) is that god claims to have created us, we're his children, blah blah blah, i don't think mao, hitler, stalin or the founding fathers of the us, or any of these other MEN slaughtered their children in droves out of love, did they? they slaughtered those who they chose to for a variety of reasons.

anyway, this is something that's of interest to me, just with a view of seeing what is actually written there, not because i'm on any anti god vendetta.

i actually think the nature of men is a lot like the nature of god, which would be consistant with being created in his image.

dh'

12

Killer God & His Body Count

by dh in

does anyone know the exact number of people recorded as being killed by god in the bible?

not those killed by old age or illness or the acts of genocide that aren't given a death toll figure (like the flood), i wondered what the body count was for those acts of genocie that do have a documented death toll, or kill figure (god sent an angel to kill 100,000 etc).. anyone any ideas?.

dh'

dh

does anyone know the exact number of people recorded as being killed by god in the bible? not those killed by old age or illness or the acts of genocide that aren't given a death toll figure (like the flood), i wondered what the body count was for those acts of genocie that do have a documented death toll, or kill figure (god sent an angel to kill 100,000 etc).

anyone any ideas?

dh'

18

Proof that Britain Does Not Like US Autos!!

by ThiChi in

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dh

British