Posts by maksutov

39

I've just been disfellowshipped!

by maksutov in

apparently it was announced last night.

i was not informed (for 'legal reasons'), but they phoned my dad and told him.

i understand it is due to my apostate book.

maksutov

I just got word from my in-laws that they will not socialise with me any more, and are dropping out of the trip away we were supposed to be sharing later this month. My FIL (who is still only 'studying', not baptised) was the one who asked me my reasons for leaving, and he was the main reason I wrote the book. I made absolutely sure he really wanted to see it before giving it to him, he confirmed that he definitely wanted it, took it, I don't know whether or not he read it, but he continued to treat me normally for several weeks. Now that an announcement has been made though, I'm not fit to associate with any more. What a spineless hypocrite. My MIL is just deluded, which is perhaps a little more excusable.

72

Coping With Atheism (Long-ish Post...sorry!)

by humblepotato in

jw
friends

long time lurker (2009-ish), first time poster.

first of all, i want to say thank you everyone who contributes to these boards and provokes stimulating conversations and thought processes.

all the opinions and different perspectives are very enlightening.

maksutov

Hi humblepotato.

Adjusting to atheism can take a while. For me, the initial adjustment was quite quick and a lot less painful than I thought it would be. I suppose the thought of spending the rest of my life knocking on doors and devoting all my spare time to JW pursuits was more painful than the idea of having my life back and dying in a few decades. Even so, going from "I'm gonna live forever!" to "I'm gonna die!" is never going to be easy.

After accepting my own mortality, I still struggled, in fact, at times, still do struggle, with the feeling that I am wasting time, or that whatever I do is futile as I'll be dead soon anyway. There are some things I find helpful in dealing with this - whether they will be helpful to anyone else, I don't know, but maybe you will find your own little helpers as time goes on. Here are some thoughts that help me:

1) When my wife's grandfather discovered he had terminal cancer, he said "Oh well, I've had a good life." - and he seemed very calm, almost content ('old and satisfied with days' you might say). I aspire to be able to say the same thing when my time comes.

2) Having thought about that a bit more, I realised that already I have had a good life. If I die today, I have had a much better life than the vast majority of people and animals that have ever existed. I have had some amazing experiences, and I cherish those.

3) The alternative to facing up to the reality of my own mortality is to deny it. If I do that, it might make me less anxious, but it also causes me to value my life less and waste the precious little time I have available. Knowing that I only have a short time at least lets me prioritise better and make the best use I can of the time I have. Denying the fragility of life also means denying its value.

4) I have started going to philosophy meetups, and this has helped me to view things, well, philosophically! I used to obsess over the fact that the present moment is in the past before I've even finished formulating that thought, that whatever I am doing right now is pointless because it will be over soon, that the future is just the past waiting to happen, that the rest of my life will be over in a flash, etc. But philosophy has helped me to see that the present is something you take with you - it is never in the past, it is always with you, and always will be. The present moment is the most important thing, and being attentive to it, excluding external irrelevancies can enable you to find a sense of contentment that is not dependent on other people, on the past, the future, or events outside your control.

5) Figure out what activities and pursuits bring you the greatest sense of pleasure and accomplishment, and prioritise them. This is not always easy, but if you can get into a state of 'flow' - where you are absorbed in an activity you enjoy (playing an instrument, riding a motorbike, even watching a gripping TV show), your level of satisfaction with life will increase.

6) Even when you are not doing something that you especially enjoy, being mindful of your surroundings and appreciating the natural world can also be therapeutic.

7) Try to find ways of helping others - donate to charity, do some charity fundraising, volunteer, even just answering posts on a forum like this.

55

why did man go from living 900 years to 90?

by sowhatnow in

i cant recall the scripture, where it says than only a few men will he live to be 80 years or so, can anyone recall that?.

so then im wondering, if it is a fact that men lived long years 900 in some cases, for what reason would god limit our lifespan if our time is so short compared to his?.

how on earth does man go from living 8 and 9 hundred years down to 80 to 100 ?.

maksutov

I thought the explanation was that some protective shield over the earth was lost during the flood.

10

Roller Coater Emotions

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

the roller coaster ride of leaving the jw.org cult..... guilt .

fear.

anger.

maksutov

True, but if you still have family in, the cycle can repeat from the beginning (minus the guilt).

57

"Normal family affections and dealings" continue - If only?!?

by LHS123 in

i am new to this forum - it is only a couple of weeks since i have allowed myself to acknowledge and research my doubts.

i am trying to be fair by reading both sides of the story and considering jw official explanation of confusing matters.

one of the issues i have been looking at is shunning - and i was shocked to see the misleading information about shunning on the jw.org website: .

maksutov

JWs have a knack of saying things that are technically true but totally dishonest.

They predicted 1914 would be a marked year (but what they marked it for is not what happened).
They reassured the Bulgarian authorities that no sanctions would be placed on JWs who have a blood transfusion (but neglected to mention that by having a blood transfusion the person would no longer be viewed as a JW, and therefore would have shunning sanctions imposed).
They say that they do not believe that only JWs will be saved (but the non-JWs to be saved are those who have not yet converted but will do so before Armageddon, or those who have already died without learning 'the truth').
And yes, shunning does not apply within the family (unless you don't live under the same roof).

...to name but a few.

39

I've just been disfellowshipped!

by maksutov in

apparently it was announced last night.

i was not informed (for 'legal reasons'), but they phoned my dad and told him.

i understand it is due to my apostate book.

maksutov

stan livedeath: hey Mak---are you aware of our facebook group for Uk ex jw's ?

No, can you give me a link?

stan livedeath: i like your username--its almost like my real name !

Cool! I'd like a maksutov cassegrain telescope some day!

stan livedeath: on a sad note--my ex wife--a born in--totally shuns our 39 y o d/f son. she will miss out on being a grandmother to his new baby--due any day now.

That's very sad, sorry to hear it. It's all so unnecessary!

39

I've just been disfellowshipped!

by maksutov in

apparently it was announced last night.

i was not informed (for 'legal reasons'), but they phoned my dad and told him.

i understand it is due to my apostate book.

maksutov

Question_Mans_interpretation: So sorry. On a happy note I'm addicted to your book, its very well written. Started reading it soon after you made the post and I'm halfway done.

Thanks, glad you like it!

violias: I just put a link to your book on my facebook.

Thank you! I was thinking of trying to publicise it a bit by posting excerpts on my blog then contacting various other sceptical blogs and websites, but I haven't had time yet.

SimonSays: Another playbook to plug Raymond Franz, and JWfacts. I hope your next book will be original. Maybe we should start calling ourselves Raymondites or JWjesuit what you think, catchy.

Great idea, lol, you're such a card.

violias: I haven't read every word in this thread but what "legal" reasons could they have for not informing you.

mimimimi: did not inform you for legal reasons, whatever they may have been

sowhatnow: what legal reason? and whos laws are they claiming is in question?

The 'legal reasons' relate to an incident in 2011, which is covered in my book. When I left the JWs, five years ago, the elders knew I had been struggling with serious doubts (because I had previously 'fessed up, thinking that Satan was trying to get me), so they tried to persuade me to disassociate. That failed as I refused to make any statement, so several months later, they launched an investigation into whether I had celebrated Christmas in 2010. They tried to question me, but I refused to talk to them, so they went round all my family members, even non-JWS, and questioned them about whether I had celebrated Christmas. I instructed a solicitor to write to them and ask them to stop the harassment and not to contact me again. Their response at the time was to schedule a judicial committee anyway, but it never happened, apparently because they could not muster up two witnesses (my wife refused to testify). Apparently their failure to inform me was their way of 'respecting' my request for them not to contact me again.

sowhatnow: how on earth does someone get DF without their knowledge? isnt that like wrong?

to me, that means you did not have any chance to defend yourself,

these men have placed themselves above the law of the land, put their by god,

they made their own laws, [like the Vatican]

and in a large way arent they guilty of slander?.

Technically, I could not have been disfellowshipped, since there was no judicial committee and no right to appeal. I also have not formally disassociated myself, so the only possibility left is that I am deemed to have disassociated myself by my actions. I did vote in local elections a few years ago, and I have given blood and celebrated Christmas (kind of), but the timing of the announcement just a couple of weeks after releasing a book that is critical of the religion makes that the most likely reason.

sowhatnow: wow, Im pretty curious , how it is that you have not 'lost it whats your secret? lol

I am a little upset that a substantial number of the people I grew up with now think of me as a wicked person, but I can't really hold it against them personally - they know not what they do. What upsets me more is seeing members of my family who are not yet JWs still being sucked into the cult despite being fully aware of what they are capable of. Still, by publishing the book, I knew there was a strong possibility that they would try to silence me using bullying tactics, so it was not a huge surprise, and I had already largely come to terms with it before it happened.

jwleaks: If you have not been a member of JW's for a number of years, in your case I understand 5 years, then you may have course of action under UK law. Start with the Charity Commission for England and Wales and lodge a formal complaint against the charity (congregation) in relation to their handling (mishandling) of this.

sowhatnow: you have legal rights too. and so use them.lol

I think the announcement that I am no longer a JW could probably be seen legally as defamation, however, the case would likely be weakened by the fact that I have not associated with JWs for 5 years, and the only JWs I currently associate with are family members who know what the reasons for my forced disassociation were (therefore, the implication that I committed some serious moral wrong would only apply to people whom I no longer associate with, and it might be seen as not particularly damaging to my reputation). I doubt I would be able to afford to fund a legal battle, but if my rellies do decide to shun me I might look into it anyway.

Pete Zahut: Thanks for sharing your news and the link to your book. I'm going to share it with a friend of ours who was just DF'd . I scanned through it and it covers a lot of topics that she is dealing with. Her only daughter is shunning her and she is somewhat troubled with residual worries that JW's may be right even though she intellectually knows better.

I hope the book helps - if just one person decides to leave or not to join it will have been worth the months of effort that went into writing it.

The overwhelming number of supportive comments people have made to me in the last 24 hours is truly touching. Thank you. My wife on the other hand has had precisely zero enquiries as to her welfare from her loving fellow JWs.

39

I've just been disfellowshipped!

by maksutov in

apparently it was announced last night.

i was not informed (for 'legal reasons'), but they phoned my dad and told him.

i understand it is due to my apostate book.

maksutov

Thank you for all the kind words.

39

I've just been disfellowshipped!

by maksutov in

apparently it was announced last night.

i was not informed (for 'legal reasons'), but they phoned my dad and told him.

i understand it is due to my apostate book.

maksutov

Thanks. Naturally I don't give a toss about being chucked out per se, and in a way it will clear the air to find out where my rellies stand. They have not said anything yet - they need 'time to think' apparently (I'm guessing that means trying to find a loophole in the shunning rules).

39

I've just been disfellowshipped!

by maksutov in

apparently it was announced last night.

i was not informed (for 'legal reasons'), but they phoned my dad and told him.

i understand it is due to my apostate book.

maksutov

Apparently it was announced last night. I was not informed (for 'legal reasons'), but they phoned my dad and told him. I understand it is due to my apostate book.

I suppose my dad and in-laws will cut me off now, but we'll have to wait and see.