Posts by Globetrotter

113

Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter in

i got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised jehovah's witness wife.

we discussed so many things: feb 1 watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the un, beth sarim, blood, god's mouthpiece here on earth, etc.

this was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt.

Globetrotter

AnnOMaly

Thank you for your reply. It is obvious you have concern. I wasn't going to reply to your post, as I have just finished a very longwinded couple of posts, but I needed to deal with these:

Leave her alone. Respect her views

By continuing to turn only to the society for answers she cannot come up with herself, and for continuing to say flip-flopping on doctrine is OK, and for continuing to buy into "new light", her view are deserving of respect??!! C'mon. It's intellectual dishonesty.

Does she really have to see things YOUR way, or the marriage is over? C'mooon! I may have read you all wrong, but it sounds like you want to snap up for yourself the power the WTS appear to have over your wife.

NO! She does not. Some people feel they need god in their lives. If you read the posts I just finished writing, you will see that I was raised a Catholic. I started doubting them shortly after my first communion, when my little buddy and I were busted one Friday after mass because he went to communion with me. I was told that he could not participate because he was not catholic. OOOPS! The notion that god loves everybody just got discriminatory. I BEGGED my wife to come investigate other churches with me, to find a place where we could both worship. She absolutely refused. My investingation in the witnesses led me down several paths of biblical history and religion. It ultimately led to my lack of belief in god. I see no evidence whatsoever of a supreme being. My belief is that all relgion man-made. BUT, atheism can be and is discussed on other threads. The point of this paragraph it to point out that I wanted us to find a common demominaiton that we could both live with. Now, that isn't possible. SO, I do not try to 'convert' her to atheism (this is not something that is done anyway), nor do I want to 'snap up for myself the WTS power' WTF? I only encourage her (and my children) to read freely and arrive at their own conclusions. When we do talk about the bible, I do NOT say "Oh, this is all horseshit." I do say "I understand this passage to mean... or this appears to be an historical account of blah blah" (such as Revelation is merely John coming down on the early Christains of the first century and admonishing them for worshiping Rome... it has nothing to with the end of the world).

Of course, if you want your marriage to fail and have religion as the scapegoat, go right ahead.

Thank you for your permission, but that is not my intent. The safety of my children and my sanity and ability to lead a normal loving life is more my motivation for trying to get her to see the society for what it is. I realize you say in a later post that you may have been too harsh. Thank you for that admission. Sincerely. Others here who have been in similar shoes seem to have an appreciation for my situation. I hope you see now where I am coming from.

113

Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter in

i got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised jehovah's witness wife.

we discussed so many things: feb 1 watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the un, beth sarim, blood, god's mouthpiece here on earth, etc.

this was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt.

Globetrotter

OK, last one..

Over the past 7 years (really the 1st 3 of the past 7) I have invested a lot of time, money and effort finding out about the witnesses. I constantly uncover stuff that is just twisted. I know enough that I don't want my children involved anymore. We still celebrate some holidays, but when my parents are gone, Christmas will stop. (My parents have a reasonably good relationship with my wife but really dislike the JW influences my kids have been exposed to. I have smart talented fantastic kids BTW.)

The problem is that once I realized that my wife was choosing the JW over me (even though she wasn't baptized), and that she refused(s) to think for herself, I lost respect for her. That's terrible. I alienated myself from her (and the kids to some degree admittedly) and started looking for things to find wrong. While I recognize my role I did NOT cause the problems our marriage currently has..

It finally got to the point where I told her I was unhappy. I told her I was completely miserable. I spelled the entire thing out to her, and asked her for help. She blamed my "unhappiness" (would be her quotes, not mine) on everything she could think of, but refused to accept any responsibility of her role.

So, over the years I have trying to piece my marriage back together and sometimes it goes fine and sometimes not. That's the bad part, because when it's not "fine" it's horrible, and when it's "fine" that's all it is. My marraige will never be more than just "OK". I long for a truly loving happy perfect marriage like my parents have. While that may never happen, I don't believe it will ever be even close.

FINE - I made my bed and I have to lay in it, but what about the children? How do I approach my kids at their age and teach them to screen out all the bullshit of this religion and take away only the love and kindness of God (if they chose to believe)? This religion is DANGEROUS to children on so many levels.

OK - 'nuff said. My kids are the bottom line here. I still have a lot to say, anecdotals, questions, etc., but I've taken up a lot of space on the board over last hour. Sorry for the longwindedness and thanks for reading.

113

Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter in

i got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised jehovah's witness wife.

we discussed so many things: feb 1 watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the un, beth sarim, blood, god's mouthpiece here on earth, etc.

this was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt.

Globetrotter

I'll just toss in here that I was raised a Catholic, but bailed years ago. 6 years of private schools. My dad taught science at a Catholic school after he retired a LTC from the Army. My mom had an aunt that was a Dominican Nun who died 6 years ago at the age of 95. She was an absolutely joyful person. Oh yeah, dad's b-day is Christmas day, mine's the 20th and my son's the 23rd. Aunt and now deceased grandmother on Christmas Eve. Dec. has always been a very special month.

So, my wife and I would go to Church with my parents when we visited after our son was born. She didn't seem too uncomfortable to me.

I finally stopped them to ask the question "If you had just 30 seconds to tell someone the most important thing in this book (holding up one of many bibles), what would it be?"

The woman and man said, almost at the same time, "The Kingdom".

So then I said (remember I was raised Catholic, not a BAC) "Hmmm. Wouldn't it be that Jesus died for our sins and that if we believe in him we shall never die? (or something to that effect regarding what it takes for salvation) If a person had never heard about the kingdom, it wouldn't matter, if they had accepted Jesus. They would die and guess what?! HEY, Check out this cool kingdom!" That is exactly what I said.

Well, I tell you, for just a moment I saw a flicker in the woman's eyes. She understood what I was saying, but then her eyes glazed back over. It was like she rebooted.

113

Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter in

i got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised jehovah's witness wife.

we discussed so many things: feb 1 watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the un, beth sarim, blood, god's mouthpiece here on earth, etc.

this was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt.

Globetrotter

First off, let me thank you all again for your comments and support. This has been and continues to be helpful.

Secondly, let me say that my situation is my own. I can see that some of you have had very similar experiences. Some of you can see my side already, but for those who cannot? here it is.

My wife grew up in the truth, but was slightly bull-headed about people telling her what to do. (You can see why she never baptized.)

When we met, she was not a US citizen (from Latin America - which as you probably know is 99.999% Catholic - go figure) When we decided to get married, she applied for her citizenship, as I was going to graduate from college and had already accepted a job overseas.

She objected to the patriotic stuff on her Citizen app., but the INS said that she would need letters from the elders stating that she was a JW in good standing before the requisite flag/allegiance stuff would be waived. Because she was not baptized, the elders would not supply her with the letter of support. She was more pissed off than upset and said she would have nothing to do with the JWs after that. She filled out her application with no reservations/objections and proceeded to pass her interview. I was very proud of her and loved her more for her strength of conviction.

I love my wife, and I will go into details on what that means later if given the opportunity, but all things remaining the same, if I had it to do over again, I would not marry her. That's an incredibly difficult and probably horrible thing to say, but it is absolutely true. The witness influence is something that creeps up every day. And while it is true that many things I mention regarding my wife's behaviour go against the JW teachings, over the years the JW stuff has worn me down. There are too many things that she believes about life and living in general that are either too negative or too weird.

Things were going along fine more or less for the first few years, with hardly a mention of the JW. I even thought some of the ideas that she had were noble, such as celebrating not Christmas and b-days. Her thoughts were along the lines of "it's hypocritical to treat people like shit all year long and then be so sweet/loving/giving at Christmas/b-days. Why not give and be nice all the time...a special day isn't needed. And Christmas isn't really Christ's birthday" etc. I later learned that this is JW conditioning and their attempt to appeal to reason.

113

Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter in

i got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised jehovah's witness wife.

we discussed so many things: feb 1 watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the un, beth sarim, blood, god's mouthpiece here on earth, etc.

this was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt.

Globetrotter

OK, wow!!! Thank you all for your thoughts. I just came in from work and can't comment right this moment, but I'll be back on in a little while and do my best to respond the many comments. In the meantime, keep posting.

Thank you.

113

Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter in

i got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised jehovah's witness wife.

we discussed so many things: feb 1 watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the un, beth sarim, blood, god's mouthpiece here on earth, etc.

this was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt.

Globetrotter

I got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised Jehovah's Witness wife. We discussed so many things: Feb 1 Watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the UN, Beth Sarim, blood, God's mouthpiece here on earth, etc. This was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt. I culminated with her setting an appointment here on Saturday morning with 2 witnesses.

I do not know the bible as well as JWs, so I won't be able to keep up with their prooftexting. I need help. Are there one or two issues that could be systematically discussed that could possibly get that seed planted? This is really the last time I can attempt this. I cannot emotionally invest any more of myself in this nonsense and the resultant dysfunctionality.

I am afraid that the discussion will ultimately be pointless and that I will be a victim of 'new light' on so many issues. I cannot get her to see the intellectual dishonesty of 'new light', so I may be doomed before I get started. If I cannot get her to open her mind and think critically about their teachings, our marraige will effectively be over. It's a shame after 14 years and two kids, but this has been building for a long long time. Am I asking for help in saving my marraige? No. In my mind, it's pretty much over, and in fact, I want it to be over if I am to live my life with more of the same. This is as much a validation point for me as anything else, but if there is any hope of getting her out, I'll do it and see what is left to build upon.

Thanks.

23

Oracle

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

yeah... i'm on a pissed off role today.

for years i've worked with ms sql server, but at my new job they use oracle.

in a nutshell, oracle seems like it was written for sadomasochists with a persecution complex.. .

Globetrotter

Great book....

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2YJEX76ITD&isbn=0060008768&itm=4

The Difference Between God and Larry Ellison. God Doesn't Think He's Larry Ellison.

That says is all.

edited....hmmmmm the link can't find the book, but copy paste into browser does .... hmmmm - go figure

1

Has anyone here ever read Bulgakov?

by Globetrotter in

has anyone here read mikhail bulgakov's master and margarita?

any comments?

i am almost finished with it.

Globetrotter

Has anyone here read Mikhail Bulgakov's Master and Margarita? Any comments? I am almost finished with it. Not being very prolific, I cannot possibly describe all the feelings and emotions this book brings to the fore, but it is truely awesome. I wish my Russian was better. I'd love to read it in the original language.

Just wondering ...

26

If You Could've Said Something You Weren't Supposed To Say........

by minimus in

jw
friends

at a meeting-------what would it have been?

i can imagine making a comment at the watchtower study after reading blondie's review and spouting some of her research from the publications to mess everybody up or give a public talk and say something like," as we all know, the society has blundered many, many dates in the past and given some false prophecies, too-----but that doesn't mean we should stop trusting them, now does it????

"

Globetrotter

BlueBlades, could you post a link to AlanF's discussion on the ransom sacrifice? I have searched but still haven't found it. Thanks!

20

Woman Refuses Blood Transfusion--Attacked by Son--Is He Guilty of Murder

by blondie in

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/local/scn-sa-nor.arraignment2jan03,0,1830775.story?coll=stam-news-local-headlines

man arrested in mother's murder on suicide watch by martin b. cassidy.

staff writer.

Globetrotter

"Apparently she was conscious and alert..."

"The Westchester County Medical Examiner said her death was caused by blood loss due to stab wounds..."

Xena, I agree he should be punished. Perhaps he could be charged with aggravated assult or attempted murder. Prove that he intended to kill her. Based on the news account, it appears to me that she made her own choices. I don't believe he is guilt of murder.

Not to make light of the situation, it reminds me of a joke that illustrates a point... A man lived in a floodplain. Torrential rains caused river to overflow. Rescue workers came by his house in a jeep to help him evacuate. He stayed, claiming "The lord will take care of me." A little while later, the water had risen beyond the first floor of his house. Rescue workers in a boat stop to help, but he told them from the second story window that "The lord will take care of me." As the waters rose, the man eventually found himself trapped on the roof of his house. A rescue helicopter came by, hoovered and dropped a harness to him. He waved off the copter, yelling "The lord will take care of me." Guess what? The waters swept him away and he drown. When he got to heaven, he asked God "Lord, why didn't you save me?!" God said "Man, I sent you a jeep, a boat and a helicopter! What more did you want?"