Posts by Globetrotter

29

Did the "Society:" make a mistake?

by fearnotruth22 in

no marriage, no children, no college, no psychiarits, no vaccines, no tranlplants, no blood, no voting no flag salute, no miitary service, no masturbation, no premarital sex, no extramaritla sex, no porno, no drbase music, no r movies, no chess ans what else is taboo?

Globetrotter

Oh, I remember about 5 years ago (maybe less) my parents wanted to buy the Hercules video for my kids. My wife wouldn't hear of it. She said the Greek 'gods' would confuse the children's knowledge of god. It was animated for cryingoutloud! (my kids were 9 and 7)

83

"Weak People Become Jehovah's Witnesses"

by minimus in

jw
friends

somebody recently expressed that point of view to me.

do you agree with that??

?

Globetrotter

Minimus, I recently made such a statement in the book review thread. The reviewer was trying to refute the notion that JWs are victims of mind control by basically saying "Whoa, don't I wish! I wouldn't have to think". I think that demonstrates weakness, but I did not meant to stereotype JWs.

I, like you, (hey- if I removed the first comma, it would read "I like you," hmmmm....does that change the meaning?) (sorry. it just popped into my mind)...anyway, I, like you, believe more along these lines..

I think people that are raised in the religion are not necessarily weak. I think people that become JWs later on in life GENERALLY are in a vulnerable state.

113

Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter in

i got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised jehovah's witness wife.

we discussed so many things: feb 1 watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the un, beth sarim, blood, god's mouthpiece here on earth, etc.

this was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt.

Globetrotter

Thanks Sirona. If you are ever over near Wigan, say hello to my buddy Paul.

48

Did God create man to live forever?

by shotgun in

dubs always point back to genisis as a last resort and say ....well he created them to live forever, it was his original purpose.. where does it say that?.

genisis says that they were to multiply and fill the earth not that they would live forever.

if they were to live forever what was the tree of life for?.

Globetrotter

I, for one, would like to know what the JW position is on this. When I was being given the JW interpretation of the bible for the first time, it seems to me that I did hear someone mention god's purpose in relation to this (and how god doesn't lie or change his mind...hmmmmm)

33

Check this book review out.....

by caligirl in

jw
friends

below is a review left on barnes & noble about diane wilson's book.

i, too, am one of jehovah's witnesses.

but jehovah's witnesses do no do that.

Globetrotter

Did anyone pick up on THIS?!

As for the charge of mind control, I wish that were true,

How weak are these people??

113

Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter in

i got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised jehovah's witness wife.

we discussed so many things: feb 1 watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the un, beth sarim, blood, god's mouthpiece here on earth, etc.

this was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt.

Globetrotter

I cannot cancel the meeting, or shall I say that canceling will be seen a bad form, and a sign of weakness. As far as topics to discuss go, I beleive I will stick to two, neither of which require the bible. One is the UN, the other I happen to like is Johnny Cip's:

here's a pretty full proof, arguement...with out using the bible. .ask the jw's is it true that jesus did an inspection of all religions from 1914-1918. then choose the wt in 1919 after rutherford got out of jail. this is a current teaching in all the wt study books. once you get them to commit to this. say ok i'll study with you 3 times a week. but i only want to study wt books printed till 1918. because since jesus did a four year inspection and choose the wt on their pure worship. I want to be just as happy as jesus was in 1918.remember only wt books till 1918.,you will study. Now the ball is in thier court and none of them have ever read these old books. but here you have put them in a hole . tell them only to come back when they bring wt books till 1918 .or thier present teaching that jesus choose them at the time is nonsense. and if it's true jesus choose the wt in 1919 or 1918 then get out the old books, or they are just giving you lip service.. if you keep to this point and tell them to keep thier bible's closed till you can feel like jesus did in 1919 then they are waisting their time with a teaqching they can't back up...... good luck john

113

Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter in

i got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised jehovah's witness wife.

we discussed so many things: feb 1 watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the un, beth sarim, blood, god's mouthpiece here on earth, etc.

this was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt.

Globetrotter

Well, those were just my thoughts and ideas and maybe how I might try to handle it. If they are not helpful, you should just disregard them without a second thought. Take what you like and leave the rest, as they say!

Not a problem Lisa. And I do thank you. At this point in my life, I am quite angry about the situation. And while my posts probably (certainly?) do reflect anger and frustration, I'm not being condescending in my responses back to you...( just so you know. It is sometimes hard to discern the tone of a post.) (So you don't think I'm continuing anything resembling a debate with you, the rest of my post is not really directed at you Lisa, but rather just comments and observations.)

Is your marriage already over? If so, then why even bother with the elder meeting?

I honestly don't know the answer to the first question, though I think I am closer (to knowing). I went through most of these same feelings at this current level 3 years ago and 5 years ago. Nothing seems to change. While I do not hold quite the same level of disdain that Garybuss does, I can certainly see how he got there. (And I don't fault you at all Gary!) As FreeWilly pointed out

But if you are in the same household, you are a captive to their ideology, paranoia and pessimism. Conversations are often angled to reinforce their belief system. Life "in this system" can never be too good. Non JW's can never be fully trusted. Despite most things getting better in our world, JW's keep everything negative before them and blow it out of proportion... This dim world view can be stifling

and Concerned Mama

but I don't know of any JW/non-JW mixed marriages that are full of love and harmony. Love, yes, but not harmony. How long the love can last under those circumstances remains to be seen.

The word 'dysfucntion' keeps popping up, and I used it myself. It is so true. The society's outlook and indoctrination permeate and infiltrate almost every single subject. Any topic of conversation or intellectual debate eventually has elements of the watchtower creeping in. It eventually (over time - years) becomes futile to even attempt a conversation that would extend beyond the mundane, for fear (and realization of that fear) that the negative influences of the watchtower will rear their ulgy head. Intellectual stimulation becomes close to non-existent, and so, one goes on 'automatic', not living life to its fullest, and any thought of living life to its fullest is consciously pushed out. Gary, is this what it was like when you were a "walkaway spouse"? Does this sound familiar or is it just me?

and Mobsta

Again, when your lifemate holds an entirely different world view than you, it is extremely difficult to find ANY common ground with which to find something positive and hopeful

Reiteration of exactly where I find myself. It is very hard. Going through a divorce is not something I relish. If I can achieve the slightest doubt upon which to build, then the meeting with the elders will serve a positive purpose. If not, then I am faced with making some hard decisions. Like I said, can't emotionally invest anything more into this. And acquiescence to going on 'automatic' for the rest of my life is something which I refuse to do.

113

Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter in

i got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised jehovah's witness wife.

we discussed so many things: feb 1 watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the un, beth sarim, blood, god's mouthpiece here on earth, etc.

this was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt.

Globetrotter

Whatever behavior you want to stop, you ?starve.? Don?t ?feed? it with a good or bad reaction. No reaction, if possible.

No advice on the Saturday confrontation with the JWs - but if someone is trying to get someone 'out' - the best way to do it may not be to confront them with 'issues', but to take a vacation .

That's right - a vacation. Be sure to go where there are NO KH's - or 5 meetings a week??.Make it a three or four weeker - the longer the better?? get the other person away from the 5 meetings a week brainwashing that they are now exposed to. The less brainwashing an individual has - the clearer they are able to see things for what they are.

I copied this because this is great advice, IMO! Don?t talk against the Org (that would be 'feeding' it) ? just take her out for some fun! As often and as far away from witnesses as possible. This is ?feeding? the behaviors you want to encourage (being away from the JWs). ( Might be good for the marriage, too.)

Engage in as many activities outside of the Witness social circle as possible. Be sure you are more fun than the KH (not hard).

Again, I agree that this is key. ?Feed? being away from JWs. Make sure these activities are fun and make sure it is easy for her to do these things?

Because she was not baptized, the elders would not supply her with the letter of support. She was more pissed off than upset and said she would have nothing to do with the JWs after that. She filled out her application with no reservations/objections and proceeded to pass her interview.

Wow. After reading that, I think you actually could have some hope here! She sounds like me.

Lisa, the comments are contradictory to the fact. Doing NOTHING resulted in where we are now. Feeding being away does nothing. She'll only go back, when we return from 'vacation'. After all, she went back after 4 or 5 years. Besides, she wouldn't let me schedule anything like that, and we can't just take a 3 month European vacation.

Your last statement above misses the point. I feel deceived that she said this, yet went back.

29

666 or 616??

by metatron in

last night, on the discovery channel, they interviewed a researcher who analyzed a scrap of papyrus that recorded revelation.. he contended that the critical passage of the "number of the beast" actually read 616 in greek, not 666. he tried to apply.

this to caligula thru numerology.. i had never heard of this variant reading before.. .

metatron

Globetrotter

It is intersting that my 1970 New American Bible (Catholic) has the following comments regarding Revelation.

" The Book of Revelation cannot be adequately comprehended except against the historical background which occasioned its writing. Like the Book of Daniel and other religious apocalypses, it was composed as resistance literature to meet a crisis. The book itself suggests that the crisis was ruthless persecution of the early Church by the Roman authorities; the harlot Babylon symbolizes pagan Rome, the city on seven hills. The book is, then, an exhortation and admonition to the Christian to stand firm in the faith and to avoid compromise with paganism, despite the threat of adversity and martyrdom?.
The Book of Revelation had its origin in a time of crisis, but it remains valid for Christians of all time. In the face of evils from within and without, the Christian can confidently trust in God?s promise to be with the church forever."

113

Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

by Globetrotter in

i got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised jehovah's witness wife.

we discussed so many things: feb 1 watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the un, beth sarim, blood, god's mouthpiece here on earth, etc.

this was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt.

Globetrotter

MarriedToTheMob,

Again, when your lifemate holds an entirely different world view than you, it is extremely difficult to find ANY common ground with which to find something positive and hopeful, regardless of ANY other previous problems within the marriage

However, I can choose whether or not to allow it to continue to affect me and my child. There comes a point of flight or fight-especially when your own children are telling you that they themselves want it all to just STOP.

Right on both points! Common ground slips away until the only thing left is the children. I will still be my children's father even if I am not married to their mother.

I forced her hand on the blood issue one day. I am O positve blood type - universal donor. I can give blood to anyone. She very reluctantly acquiesced to allowing me to give them blood if they ever needed it because it's family (I hope we never have to test that acquiescence). However, I can accept only O positive blood, and no one in my family is O positive. Do you know where this is going??? Yup, she says she would not allow me a transfusion if I needed one! How can I live with that?!! Those aren't my wishes.

Anyway, thank you for your understanding and support. I too, wish you all the best. You are a couple of steps ahead of me, and what you are going through is painful. Just keep focusing on the other side. I believe it will make all the difference in the world to you. You will finally be free to explore and experience life without nonsensical bullshit weighing on you and stifling your personal developement.